There We Are Then - part 4, but episode 278946, probably.

[mummy917]

For anyone who is still offering messages of hope, wisdom and general loveliness 🥰

Could you ask for an agreement whereby you buy uniforms/school expenses for say child 1 and 2, he does child 3 and 4, and then the reverse for out of school activities, then you can eliminate the asking him for his half which seems to create a problem (because he’s an idiot). I’m trying to think of a long term easy solution that reduces your need to speak to him.

Classic darvo!

It takes 2 people to have an argument though, he could just not rise to your supposed provocation, but chooses to go in with both feet. I know it's easier said than done, but when he tries to deflect the conversation onto your various failings, remind him that you're trying to have a conversation about your kids' needs, and if he wants to be a good Dad he needs to focus on those, not rehashing his grievances about you.

You've spotted the pattern in his behaviour, which is half the battle in dealing with it. Getting out of the pattern of your ingrained responses to it may take a while, but you can do it, and while you're building up your resilience then the suggestion to do everything by text is a good one.

that would only work with someone cooperative who wants to pay their share.

He will agree and then the next month claim he can't afford it so @mummy917 has to pay it and he will never pay her back. Within three months she is paying everything again and he is paying nothing.

He rang so he got to say what he wanted to say.
You brought up his lack of financial contribution and he says you were starting an argument.
I am sorry OP but he’s an absolute prick.
I went out with someone like him once which is why I’ve got the rage today.
He hounded his ex wife to the point where she had a breakdown and was sectioned and he actually went in to see her to tell her it was great news as he could then keep their daughters.
He hid so much financially - he had a few quid and she did the same job as you. On the first day he went to drop the girls off he turned up in a brand new Merc and said to her… I hid 200k from you and there is fuck all you can do about it.
I also heard him on the phone to her once when he thought I couldn’t hear and he was telling her he would always be the better parent, she just needed to live with it.
He was so lost in his own ego he could not see that everyone could see through him.
I met her in the end and she was fully recovered, back working and eventually remarried and had two more kids. She was beautiful as well.
And he had said well she’s been abused by her ex when we met so I knew she was vulnerable and normally wouldn’t look at me but as she was so down I hit the jackpot.
So he married her, had two kids with her and then reduced her to nothing.
But she recovered as you will.
God knows where he is now but he was one nasty, controlling, self-centred arse.
They walk amongst us.

OP I seem to recall you have the children on alternate weekends. If you buy rugby items for him, I’d suggest to use them on your weekends and DO NOT pack them for child to take to his dads. He can buy his own. Is there any reason you cannot take that approach? Likewise school uniform or anything else. Label the items with your home address and demand them back if something unavoidably ends up at his house and he fails to return it. I’d keep purchase receipts and take him to small claims court if I had to in order to hammer the message home (once the divorce is finalised and you have no chance of being repaid) - it is theft. Perhaps just not sharing expenses is a lower conflict solution than trying to get his ‘share’ from him. It’s a shame all expense needs to be doubled but nothing you can do about that. I second everyone else - don’t pick up the phone if he calls. Written comms only.

Why do you worry about buying a bed but not consider how he has selfishly spent on tattoos whilst refusing to provide for his children? Have you bought yourself luxury items whilst the kids go without? Because im pretty confident he has.

These men make you feel like you are going mad and cant do anything for yourself whilst being the height of selfish. No one is going to suggest you shouldn't buy yourself a bed ever.

I do think the suggestion about not providing the rugby stuff for his weekend if he refuses to contribute is a good one. Unlike uniforms, you can keep the rugby stuff separate, so I would tell him if he isnt contributing then he will have to get his own kit for his weeks. He needs to learn that he either contributes or he will financially end up worse off because a whole kit is more expensive than a shared expense.

He’s shut you down throughout the marriage, prevented you expressing your feelings, stopped you discussing issues - so he could control you and have his own way.
Now he kicks off and assassinates your character when you mention his financial contribution - so he gets to keep as much of his money as possible and spent it on himself.

You know those faults he attributes to you? We read between your lines and are still with you after fiftybillion threads. Your landlady fully supports you, backed YOU when this first emerged. Your friends and colleagues think you’re wonderful. Your mum would fight the world for you. Your MiL is protecting you.

I could list all the instances when he stood alone but you know them.

He had to leave because he’s Mr. Unaccountable, unaccountable emotionally and financially.
That’s it.
Plain and simple.
And he always will be. Your eldest is probably sussing this now; the others will follow.

Don’t pay heed to his verbal garbage. He has a bullying agenda to facilitate his selfishness. Enjoy the validation from everyone else (lots of people IRL and here).

In this new life that he's created he frames himself as super dad, he doesn't like you bringing him back down to earth by reminding him of his real failings

Because you having your own opinions is wrong. It fries his head, why can’t you just be compliant!? My dd recently fell out with her father because of a way he’s going about a change in their home that she doesn’t want and was told wouldn’t be happening; he is blaming her for her response (hurt, shutting down) rather than looking at his own part in provoking that response.

Your STBX does the same thing- rather than admit he hasn’t paid you back the money you have lent him to buy necessary things for the kids to be able to stay with him (so all things he has demanded happen), he is blaming you for asking him to pay up, because you are drawing attention to his fault/making him look bad. He can’t actually admit that, while saving face, so he has to deflect onto the fact of you asking rather than the material point that he owes you money.

He assassinates my character every opportunity he gets. He brought up the night he came in at 5am (all while I was being kept on a string and he was “deciding what he wanted” at that point) and continued to say “all my mates’ wives have no issue with it so I don’t know why you did.” This was part of him giving his controlling speech in the telephone call and because I scoffed and said he couldn’t fulfil his responsibilities the following morning as a result, he got worse with the tirade of insults.

I could do that with the rugby kit but he’d then probably just refuse to take our son and say “your mam didn’t sort your kit out”, I can see it now. I feel like I’m in a no win situation.

“Your mam didn’t sort it out” would perfectly illustrate to your son who’s the responsible parent and who isn’t.

He’s such a cunt. When the kids are much older, they will understand exactly what he is like and you will come out on top.

@mummy917 been here since your first thread. Been in your shoes.

He is behaving like he always has (entitled, argumentative) and thinks that he is the one who is 'in charge of everything'. Plus he knows that you will always put the kids first.

But also you are behaving like you have learned to behave... (sublimating yourself to 'keep the peace') You are doing the right thing to put your dc's needs and wants as most important. And you also need to keep yourself as your own priority.

You have a difficult path to negotiate so that your dc's still have everything that they need without you being the downtrodden provider. But you're an intelligent person. You can make this work.

You are also a person with a heart that is hurt. Somehow in all of the difficult practical arrangements you also have to take care of yourself. I sense that you know how to do that - time on your own, valuing your work and the contribution you make, friends and family.

You have a huge body of support here on mumsnet. Lean on us. Trust us when we tell you that you are doing all the right things and he is... well, there we are then!

I agree, OP, he just won't take your DS to rugby if he hasn't got the kit. And then the kids are the ones who suffer.

As I recall, “all of his mates’ wives” wouldn’t even let them help XH move into his new home. And he’s going to tell you that these wives are okay with poor behaviour? 😂

Hi @mummy917 .
What you have to remember when you're talking to him is that he will look for and take every opportunity to put you down and try to make you feel bad.

And it is all bullshit.

You know that, really. But you slip back into your old role of the wife who tried to pacify, smooth things over etc etc so that you and your kids didn't live in a battleground.

If it wasn't for you financing the kids' new mattresses/clothes/school uniform, he would have been totally stuffed. And your kids would have gone without.

Meanwhile he was paying out £100s of pounds for a tattoo and going to gigs.
And getting his mum to look after his children during 'his' 50% time.

NOBODY would ever think that you were the bad parent.

Just keep recording everything he owes you, and be ready to produce it as part of the divorce settlement.

And keep telling yourself IT'S NOT ME, IT'S HIM.

Keep communication to text or email ...

Sending you big hugs, you've been doing so well. This is just a blip 💐

The really petty part of me really wanted to ask him where all these mates were when he was moving out 🤣 but I refrained as I knew that’d send him off the rails.

If he told our son that I didn’t sort out his rugby kit, my son would take that at face value as he’s only 10 and he would absolutely blame me for it.

I get what you’re saying @moderndilemmabut the way I’m feeling at the minute, I just don’t have the will in me to fight with him; I’m at the point where I wish he could just leave me alone and I wish there was a middle man, so to speak, when it comes to the kids and handovers.

I find the time I have when the kids are with him, to be really helpful because I can switch off fully if I want to, I can sit and cry if I want to or I can go out and see the people closest to me if I want to. I am also beyond grateful for the massive support on here, all of you lovely ladies (and the odd man), have helped me more than I can ever say. Sometimes more so than people in real life, because I have very few people close to me who have gone through this as we are all still mid 30s.

So every time you ask him about paying his share he is using the attack/argue approach to change the topic. He's picking on you to avoid the topic of his financial responsibility. He should be giving you an answer about paying his share, not deflecting and attacking. That says a lot about him, nothing bad about you.

“If you stumped up your share of kids’ uniform
etc instead of getting a t(w)attoo then pleasing poverty we wouldn’t be arguing would we” @mummy917

This. Play the long game - your kids will remember actions, not his whinging excuses.

If the kids are with you, just don't answer the phone when he calls. It's never going to end well. Let him leave a message or text you.

It's okay OP
Jeez
This guy is a cunt

@mummy917

What @AllIneedAreMyFamilyandDogs has said is true. He's using his old and false 'complaints' about you to deflect from the real issue; his contribution to his children. And it's working.

You need to learn to ignore his 'attacks' and return straight to the subject at hand.

You: I need your 1/2 contribution to the rugby kit.
Him: There you go again telling me what to do. You are so controlling.
You: That's your opinion. What I want to know is when are you going to pay your 1/2 contribution?
Him: This is why I left you, you are such a bitch.
You: That's your opinion. Are you going to pay your fair share of the kit or not?
Him: You can whistle for that money. You really are a nag
You: That's your opinion. I have your answer then, no contribution. I will make a note of it. Goodbye.

At some point you're going to have to blunt his weapon of 'going after you'. He'll keep doing it as long as he gets the reaction he wants, which is to either upset you or to deflect from something he doesn't want to commit to. And the only way you can blunt that weapon is not to react to it. I know, it'll be 'fake it til you make it' for a while, but you'll get to the point where it really does roll off your back. I've been there and I know. I can't tell you how often I had to grit my teeth and think silently "consider the source" whilst repeating calmly 'that's your opinion'.

I know you may not be in a place to do this immediately. But think about it.