August 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have started a new thread as the other one is now full.

I think it’s the all or nothing lack of intelligence that doesn’t grow. That kind of thinking comes as our brains develop. I can give you attention and still be of importance. I can centre you and it not completely destabilise me. Their gravity is so rigid. I think some are hard to spot because they are intelligent and other narcs have less intelligence and need to use other obvious methods. They all toddlers developmentally.

@MustIgo I think you are right, definitely with GB2 anyway, that he has not developed past the self absorbed toddler stage in the way that most people do. I think GB would be classed as a covert narcissist- in that rather than projecting himself as successful and charismatic he acts as though he knows he is superior to everyone else and deserves to be obeyed/served has to fight for it and often feels he doesn't get the respect and success that he knows he deserves. I think the idea of this as a lack of development opens up some interesting questions about nature and nurture. Personally, I fully believe that out parents could have done a lot more to teach GB2 to understand that he is not the centre of the universe. They also seemed to be trapped in the stage of treating telling him how amazing he is at everything and always being there to catch him before he fell.

Much like a toddler, GB2 also has a very strong sense of 'rules' (real and imagined), what is 'right' and the obligations of others. But only when these things benefit him. As an example, he had a tantrum because we did not ask him to be Godfather to our first child. He claimed that there is an 'unspoken rule of etiquette' that a sibling who does not have their own children should be at least asked. Even if we ignore the fact that there is no such rule and he is the last person I would want as a role model to my child, he didn't think it was a problem that he is a very vocal atheist. More recently he has been making a huge fuss because he and his partner have both been fined for taking their child on holiday in school term time. I know lots of people disagree with the system, but he is adamant that he simply didn't know the rules would apply to them, and that there must have been a mistake made. He admits that he received a letter from school to say that the time off could not be treated as authorised and there 'may' be fines, with details of how to find out more about fines. But claims that he didn't read these details because 'it's just to put you off'. He is so adamant that there was definitely a mistake made that he has already booked his next term-time holiday and is convinced that there will be no fine. He is also annoyed with the school because he claims they should have made it clearer and should have called during the holiday to tell him when they had gone over the number of days' 'allowed' absence (not sure that's even a thing) so they could decide whether to go back. So essentially he suffered a totally predictable consequence of an action but maintains that it shouldn't have happened when it did it was everyone else's fault- so he intends to do exactly the same action again and does not expect any consequences. GB2 is reasonably well educated and almost fifty years old, not a grumpy teenager or a toddler.

I think if you raised by someone who lives inside their own head you could inevitably end up as someone who lives inside their own head. We could all live this way if we so wished but unfortunately we developed beyond this and that sneaky little thing called guilt and empathy came on board as we start to take on board others. If they developed just a sprinkle of this they’d all be such different human beings. Your brothers just all sound ridiculous. They think the rest of the world is stupid!
“They are completely unable to conceptualise that people have inner lives, thoughts and emotions separate from their own.”

Let’s hear something funny

Whats the most ridiculous gift you’ve had from a narc?

I’ve had a bin, washing machine tablets, a reflective cycle jacket (don’t cycle).

Dsis booked the flight and villa for us to go to Florida no doubt dm footed most of the bill she has form for booking holidays she can’t afford just me dh and dc cost us a fortune in park tickets ended up having to cash in some of dh work shares losing thousands to pay for them. Bought dd a horse without discussing it with us so we had to ferry dd to stables daily to look after her and help out with costs because of course she couldn’t afford it.

dm gave me baking stuff as i didn’t have any i don’t bake apart from when the kids were little as i am not interested and don’t particularly have a sweet tooth

@Spendysis I think you might have already won there with your sister buying your DD a horse!

My MiL buys ridiculous presents that show she has put no thought in. The year my DH and I got together she bought him toothpaste (she had not long before sold a property and is fairly wealthy anyway). The next year, because she was trying to impress her new partner and play happy families, there were piles of presents for everyone, but they were still similarly thoughtless, despite some being expensive. She had bought her partner two fairly expensive presents that were clearly for herself (eg, one was a large leopard print suitcase). When he opened these things and looked incredulous, she said “what, don’t you like it? I’ll have it then!”

Another year we had fallen out with my BiL following some awful behaviour on his part (screaming abuse at my DH, telling some really horrible lies about us both - and after generally being self absorbed and argumentative it was too much). He was acting upset that my DH said he was no longer welcome at our house and said he would leave our presents on the doorstep, as he had bought things that were personally for us and still wanted us to have them. They were mugs from B&M that cost £2 each and had sweets in (none of us really eat sweets) and the mug design matched the sweets they came with.

Who the f**k buys someone a horse…omg

How hard is it to pick a gift. Even someone you hated after spending a small amount of time listening you could pick a half decent thing. Look around and you can spot what thing they own.

I never got presents from my parents, until one year my mum suddenly gave me a manky towel for my birthday. It was a horrible yellow (I hate yellow, never owned anything yellow in my life) looked used, but worst of all it smelled disgusting, a kind of anti-moth smell combined with damp house smells. Never anything again since (I must have not looked pleased enough!)

I am an old poster with a name change. Life continuing as it always has here.

Re presents, and the always buying awful or unsuitable presents, my mother is an expert at this. I think it's because her thinking doesn't extend beyond what she wants to buy. It's not about the person the present is for. Her pattern is to ask you what you want, argue about it, sometimes repeatedly, and then buy the thing she wants to buy anyway. Even if you've explicitly said you don't want it. Eventually I just told her I didn't want anything for Xmas or birthday. She was more than happy to accept that and hasn't given me anything in years.

She honestly seems completely unable to get past her own wants and is upset and confused if you don't want what she wants. She also, I've realised, cannot bear spending any money on me (though she gives money to the siblings and makes no secret of it, it anything makes sure I know they get money).

I've recently taken to telling myself expecting her to behave normally is like expecting a paraplegic to walk.

I remember being bollocked as a child for not being grateful enough and having the wrong look on my face after being given yet another shit present I didn't want.

@Spendysis that is bonkers, agree you win with the horse. Your username says it all, but this (and the holiday) is next level

I do actually understand that some people find it hard to get good gifts. Me increasingly being one of them! But I hope that people see that I’ve tried and they appreciate the effort. Don’t want to make the same impression as my mum. Who didn’t give my first boyfriend toothpaste, but deodorant. He was a good guy and laughed it off, but really?

Omg I’ve never actually realised the user name is spendy sis. I just looked at the name as a whole…ha ha she spends!!!!

I'm not really fussy about gifts- if someone has taken even a small amount of time and effort to think of me, buy/make something and remember to give it to me I am grateful for that even if the actual gift is not exactly to my taste. But...

The only time I can remember GB2 giving me a gift was in the early stages of his campaign to persuade me to be his default school holiday/illness solution. His view was/is that as I am self employed I can clearly take time off whenever I like whereas he only has annual leave so can't be expected to use that for childcare and doesn't want to take his family holidays when the schools are off because everywhere is busy and expensive. I saw him at Mum's on my birthday and he presented me with a promotional poster from a film that had been big a few years before but wasn't in any way something that anyone would expect to be of interest to me, plus a selection of plastic tat themed for a sports event that had just finished. He had not wrapped them, or even removed the layers of discount stickers showing that they were clearly from the bargain bucket somewhere and the lot had cost him less than £2. He is not someone who would ever buy cheap things for himself, so it's not that he's a bargain hunter who puts effort in to finding good deals or even that he had reason to think I'd like this stuff- he obviously just saw some cheap crap in a shop as he was passing.
Even then, I wouldn't have minded particularly but on the day he continually pressed me for praise of his gifts and for ages after made passive aggressive (and sometimes just aggressive) comments about my supposed lack of appreciation/excitement. It was very odd, and I do wonder if perhaps at some level part of the plan was that I would receive crap gifts, be made to feel guilty for not being sufficiently enthusiastic and agree to do whatever he demanded by way of apology.

It sounds like they weaponise gifts also then as well as just buy crappy…if they can with some and not with others then it seems very much within their control.

Omg the horse is wild!

My sibling is an accountant (I am not) and bought me a book about accountancy for a milestone birthday. When I looked baffled they said ‘you’ve always said you don’t understand my career so…’

I have my first therapy session with my mum this morning. Feeling very sick about it - been obsessively practising conversations in my head all week which I’ve always done as a coping mechanism - do others do this too? I find it exhausting when I’m trying to get on with my life and my brain is taken up running different scenarios over and over.

I’m trying to remind myself that going to therapy doesn’t mean I’m obligated to do anything else/go to their house/have any specific kind of relationship with them but it’s HARD.

@Parenttherapy yes, I do this a lot! I don’t sleep very well these days because it can be hard to stop doing it. Good luck today. You are right, you don’t have to move forward in any way if you’re not ready.

You have reminded me! My MiL has given us mouldy things, knowing my DH has a severe allergy to mould and breathing/heart problems. We are never entirely sure where she has got them - it’s been several things over the years. Literally mouldy old things (obviously second hand, but black with mould) and some of them she has given to us for our DC. I know what you mean about weaponising - these things feel like they are just to make you feel like she wants to hurt you.

@Parenttherapy I do this all the time as well, to feel more in control I think. Hope your session goes well, and you leave with a good feeling about it. The therapy IS the thing you’re doing with them, maybe you can remember that? (And a big thing at that)

@Mywhitedress I think making the effort and perhaps not always getting it right (as you describe) is very different from buying something that will clearly cost the recipient a fortune or expecting someone to be delighted with something that clearly no-one would want. My MIL frequently buys me small gifts that I have no use for and are really not my style- but I appreciate the intention as I know it always comes from a good place.
@Parenttherapy I hope your session goes well (or at least not badly). I must be a very stressful step to be taking. Hopefully the therapist will be on board that this is not a step towards a particular outcome, or a commitment to have more of a relationship. Even if they don't, just remember that you can walk away at any time and you are still in control of who you see and where you go etc. I also run over possible scenarios/conversations/responses etc in my head before seeing my family. It is completely exhausting but I feel I need to have considered all possible comments/questions/responses so that I have a pre-planned approach to everything they may throw at me. I have been trying to reduce this and tell myself that I can simply not answer questions I am not comfortable with, tell them I will think about it and get back to them if they try to force me to agree to something, and simply walk away if I feel threatened. But that's all easy to say and harder to avoid worrying/rehearsing when you just can't predict when and what will be thrown at you.

Thank you for the support, I really appreciate it! It’s so sad but reassuring to hear other people do similar rehearsing - @Mywhitedress you're totally right that it’s a way to control an uncontrollable situation.

I feel like I almost don’t know what would be worse - if my mum doesn’t listen to me at all then it’ll make my decisions easier but be horrible and feel like all this build up was a waste of time, if she does listen it’ll give me hope which is so painful and I can’t trust it anyway. Eughhh.

The only way I can understand it is that all the relationships are transactional, but each in a different way, so she justifies it to herself. I am sure she would insist that she's not being intentionally mean or difficult with me, that she genuinely thought my gift suggestions were stupid and that hers were better, and that it's fine she doesn't bother any more, because she's only doing what I asked (totally bypassing the part where I ended up there because she made such a fuss and I CBA with it any more).

In her own head, she's only ever trying to be nice.

Thanks for these threads. I’ve dipped in and out of them before, trying to process my family situation and to learn from how other posters are doing this. There’s a lot of ND and trauma and very poor coping mechanisms in my family, so it’s been so helpful to read these threads. I wish everyone on here really well. Especially if you are dealing with all this plus caring responsibilities for the people that you have the difficult relationships with, as well. Phew.

I found the recent news reports upsetting:
’Michael Owen doesn't tell his children he loves them - how big a deal is that?’ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cddvep5vj7mo

The article says that men who don’t tell their kids they love them are performing an old version of masculinity. This form of fathering ‘shows’ its love rather than speaks it apparently.

I disagree, I think it’s a fundamental part of the parental job to make your kids feel secure and loved which means clearly telling them- seems very risky for your kids’ future happiness not to say it…

But also the article omits that there are parents (male and female) who don’t say loving words for their kids simply because (I think maybe) their self-centeredness and/or past trauma and/or ND does not allow them to love in any normal way that meets their kids’ needs for love. They’re not spending their time ‘showing’ their love.

I don’t like to think of humans being unable to change, because that’s really sad, but am also trying to accept as fact that some people (who are also parents) can’t or won’t change because it benefits them not to. and others hoping they will change is fruitless and upsetting.