There We Are Then - part 2

[mummy917]

Follow on from previous

@mummy917 I know, although maybe it would lead to him spontaneously combusting so could solve all your problems.

Seriously though his abuse is vile and it’s not okay, you shouldn’t have to put up with it. On a positive note at least it’s opened your eyes to what a horrific person he has become. No one should think it’s okay to speak to anyone like that and a person who does isn’t someone you want to be associated with.

Whats great is that his anger is now making you stronger, you’ve come so far and are dealing with this like a warrior.

It’s his choice of words that’s telling. He’s angry because you are ‘useless’ - ie of no use to him. Too right, mate: you are no longer his to make use of, and isn’t that making him an angry, nasty little boy!

Definitely think there's something going on with these Fri early mornings, that he wants to be somewhere else. He's obviously messed up agreeing 10am handover and now regretting it.

Would you be ok with e.g. 8am handover on a Friday, if his pride allows him to ask you to change?

Just let the school and nursery know he’s begun to be abusive in his interactions. If social services are ever asked to give a view on child arrangements they will speak to the relevant agencies, so any paper trail of you being appropriate, holding the kids needs in mind, trying to protect yourself and them etc, is going to be a massive positive for you, and a massive negative for him.

Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post, @mummy917 , but do you think he's asked for 50/50 just to avoid paying maintenance for the kids? And when he realises it's not just how many nights he has them on paper, it's 50/50 responsibility and him having to arrange childcare if he has plans when they're with him, he'll decide he doesn't want 50/50 after all?

Exactly - this is what OP strongly suspects. If I may speak for her, I think she is actually hoping that 50/50 will break down and that the ex will do EOW like the part time dad he really is.

Yeah I would be okay with an 8am handover on a Friday, he suggested 10am as he wanted to be able to take our eldest to school and then our eldest daughter too come September when she starts, but he also said it would mean the kids wouldn’t need to be rushing around on a Friday morning during school holidays when none of them had anywhere to be. I really do feel like the fact I’ve been taking them to his for 7am on a Wednesday for the last few weeks, has gotten up his nose and he’s twisted in his mind to me doing it out of spite or whatever. I did explain to him that it was purely so me, him and the kids could all get into the habit of it before I go back to work properly and it’s not so much of a shock to the system for them, which he said he was fine with at the time. Had he not been, I’d have done a 10am handover and would’ve taken the eldest 2 to school and nursery, then dropped the twins with his mum at 10am, but he didn’t want that either. I feel that no matter how or what I do, it will be fine one week and not good enough the next.

The thing is OP works until at least 8pm on Thursday night (Often later) and said she has a long drive home after (I think she said 45-60mins). Her shift is over 13h long so she’ll have left the house probably around 6am so I imagine by the time she gets home she needs some time to unwind and then sleep. She should be able to be refreshed before getting the kids back. She shouldn’t have to be up early just to accommodate him and she’d get the kids back and then have to get straight on to the school run for her eldest two. Also if she agrees to 8am, he’ll then push for 7am. It’s not just Friday though, he’s bringing them back earlier than agreed tomorrow and when he had then the first weekend and he was supposed to drop them off on the Sunday he rocked up nearly an hour early. He just doesn’t want to parent.

Yeah I absolutely do. If my parents could manage doing nursery and school drop offs, pick ups and then the bedtime routine with all 4 for 2 days a week, then I’d have already proposed every other weekend and me not chasing him for child maintenance. And I genuinely believe he’d have bitten my hand off for that. However it’s not fair to ask that of my parents but it is something I have been thinking of mentioning to him in around 18 months when the twins are only a few months from starting primary school and will be past the toddler stage.

I was going to ask if you could just drop them directly to his Mum on a Wednesday, obviously she might not want them at 6am but it might be less stressful for the kids as I’m assuming he drops them to her pretty early anyway.

I’m not sure she’d be able to do 6am and it feels unfair of me to ask that of her too. I think he drops them with her around 7:45 before he takes the other 2 to school and nursery on a typical non school holiday week.

I feel that no matter how or what I do, it will be fine one week and not good enough the next.

Absolutely. Which is why @mummy917 you need to stick to the timing arrangements that you've both made and agreed. The boundaries you're setting now are critical - for both you and your DC.

@mummy917 hopefully things will calm down. It’s all very new and this week has been particularly stressful with sickness and potty training. You’ve had to interact with each other more which is horrible for you but a nice long break from it is in sight. Whilst you are away I’d seriously consider putting your WhatsApp notifications on mute from him, just incase he decides to try and ruin your holiday.

Do you think mediation would help you though? What you want if him to stick to the agreement & not be vile.

I think he has realised it’s the number of overnights that matter and it counts the same even if he scoops them up in their PJs and drops them off without breakfast.

I think in the long run you stick to the arrangement of him taking them to school on a Friday. If nothing else because then he has to provide school uniform that day. Otherwise he’ll be dropping them off in ‘normal’ clothes saying they need to change at yours because the uniform at his house needs washing or something.

At the end of the day, you’ve made the arrangements based on what’s best for the kids & suits both of your work commitments. Don’t offer any changes (like earlier handover on Fridays) unless there is a compromise that you want AND it’s going to be better long term for the kids.

He is incredibly stupid to send a message like that , or he really does think you are too stupid to screen shot it . He’s just proving what an abusive knob he really is . Do you have a back up plan for your first day back at work as I think it’s on the cards that he will cause an issue .

Agree! As soon as you give him an inch, he'll be pushing for more. It's so much easier (although not fun in the short term) to stick rigidly to the agreement to begin with. If things get easier down the line and your co-parenting relationship gets better, there's nothing stopping you both becoming more flexible, but it's way too early (and he's way too much of a test) for that.

Absolutely, this. This is ongoing abuse. He believes he has the right to control you and the right to verbally abuse you when you stand up for yourself. I'm gobsmacked but I know I shouldn't be.

@mummy917: You keep mentioning that even if 50:50 breaks down that you wouldn't chase him for child maintenance. I wanted to point out that it isn't your money to waive away - it's intended for your children. I know it isn't as clear as that as it would be you who had to pursue it but if you think of it as the children's money not yours then you might feel differently about it.

Sabotaging your first day back at work is going to be a juicy, low hanging fruit, unfortunately. A PP who mentioned the extinction burst is right.

Please, please get your back up plan in place now. He has been stupid enough to verbally abuse you on paper, he's one of those types who wouldn't care about a bollocking from a judge in the family court, he just wants to shit over your life, because he is losing control.

I know you have been apprehensive about getting your parents on board, but do they know the full picture that he's being abusive to you, that he doesn't even have basic medication for sick children? I know parental relationships are different for everyone, but mine would stop at nothing to support me if I was with a guy like Twattoo.

Do NOT accept majority childcare and no maintenance.
The maintenance is not for you, it's for your children, as you know. He won't be spending the equivalent on them in an EOW situation. If it comes to this claim it and spend it or save it for the children. He should be taking responsibility one way or another for his children, whether that's in his time or his money.

He is what you describe, but it’s part of a pattern of his abuse. I know I am banging on but it’s common for it to continue after separation. Whilst you were together you were simply used to his behaviour and accommodated it. You don’t need to, and in my experience it won’t help if you do. Mediation is unlikely to work but definitely have a go.

He is a controller. He wants out, but still wants to control you/ the situation. Please don’t let him off his financial commitments to the DC, even in the future. They are entitled to it, and we don’t know what the future holds for any of us. Also it’s a poor pattern of behaviour for your DC to be observing or even modelling.

I feel that no matter how or what I do, it will be fine one week and not good enough the next.

In that case, the best you can do is stick to the agreement and look at his mantrums as background noise.
And just repeat ‘that’s our agreement. I will pick up drop off at x time as agreed’

I know you’re already thinking about mediation but one good thing about it is that it will give the agreement some sort of legal basis iyswim.

Also I would NOT give up on CM. I know you’re already thinking feel it would make your life easier. But you have 4 dcs. He has some responsibility towards them. They deserve the little bit of ‘luxury’ that the CM would give them. (Luxury as in food on the table, heating running, clothes that aren’t all hand me down, some after school activities etc….)

Please don't give him.the satisfaction of cost-free, part time parenting, if it comes to that. Bank the CMS for your kids going to uni/leaving home etc if you really don't need it for them day to day. They will need it in some form or other and he shouldn't escape his responsibility.

Thank you all, I will take on board what you have all said in regards to the child maintenance. I know it’s for the kids but I was just purely thinking of what would make our lives easier and with as least conflict as possible from him. But you are all absolutely right in what you have said.

I have a great relationship with my parents and they both have said they wish they could do more to help me out with childcare but they’re both not in the best physical health. My dad had a hip replacement a while ago and although he’s much more mobile now, he still struggles with keeping up with the twins. One he can manage, but both is too much. The older 2 are a bit easier as they’re more self sufficient. And my mum has numerous physical health issues which means she would struggle looking after the twins especially if she filled in the gaps between nursery starting and finishing when I went to work. On Wednesday they have said between them they will look after the kids if he drops me in it, but it would need to be a one off which I totally get.

Hi op he is a fucking cunt he really can’t bare you standing up to him. I wouldn’t change anything to make his life easier it’s only been a few weeks of this and he’s tried bringing the kids back early twice. He is there father so it’s his job to arrange his personal stuff once they go home to you. I would just message him and say I do not appreciate you swearing at me you chose this situation so you make it work. On my non kid days I will do what I please so you need to stop arranging things when you have our children. I am not going to let you run my life I can see clearly it’s you who is controlling and abusive to me. So you have another 12 years of co parenting so you might as well get used to it. Or you can pay maintenance and leave the kids to me like you did when you lived here. If you sent me another abusive text then we will have to go to mediation or court because I’m am sick of you behaving like a teenager.