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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Glam & Fab Part 6 - The Summer of Discontent

1000 replies

Tanee58 · 25/06/2008 10:12

Hope you all find your way onto this new one !

OP posts:
ginnny · 09/07/2008 14:33

alone not alond! Sorry

lilyloo · 09/07/2008 14:40

Ginny what a joke!
I think everything he is saying to you are things he knows about himself deep down!
I agree think the card was to detract from the fact he had been in the pub and he knew you were p####d off with him.
How very that he is doing this to you and the dc's and himself!

macdoodle · 09/07/2008 15:06

oh Ginny how awful I feel so for you...as like all of us idiots lovely ladies you clearly still love him - my honest 2p he is an ALCOHOLIC - a pint at 9:30am not good, lying about drinking not good - poor poor you
Thank you all for the lovely comments - am feeling a bit down about my weight at mo as was so much happier in my own skin when I was thinner and I know he hates it when I am fat and bloody OW is skinny (though a bit plain and dull I THINK she is on FB if anyone wants a gander??? With her baby only looked once ) ....
Baffy hope head is ok...
PC good luck on consult let us know how it goes ....??
UC YOU OK ??? Waiting to hear how it went ...
OOh ooops almost forgot school run back out in rain ...yuk!!!

Tanee58 · 09/07/2008 15:11

Ginny, I am so sorry - and shocked at his behaviour today of all days - right from taking you to Wetherspoons so he could have a breakfast pint - to that snide card and his comments that apply to HIS behaviour - the nerve of the man!

All I can suggest is - try to rise above it. Do you think you'll be able to cope with the holiday though?

UC - how are you? How did it go? Hope you were able to put at least some of the others' suggestions into practice - at least letting him have his say without getting too emotional. In your situation, I would have tried saying 'yes, I understand what you're saying, but can't make any decisions on the house/stuff yet, I believe it's too soon and we shouldn't rush things for the dcs sake, as their lives have already been disrupted and we should try to maintain some stability re home etc until everyone has come to terms with the new situation.

Big hug to you (wobbly ) and hope you will eventually find us on FB - it will be revealed that we really ARE hairy truckers - and none hairier than Dior

TFM - where are you? You seem very quiet. I managed to put your advice into practice last night. After a great dance class (learnt a gallumping 18th century hoppy skippy dance that made up for my lack of walking to work this morning) - I met DP at the station. He looked very confused to see me waiting at the barrier - he didn't know that I knew which train he'd be on (totally forgotten he'd told me) and said 'what a surprise'. I ignored the fact that his breath reeked of wine, having had almost a whole bottle on the journey down, and we had a pleasant evening, though I still felt a bit strange and apart from him (trying to ignore the elephant in the room is HARD!). And I'm afraid, Baffy, that I uncrossed my legs in vain . But it WAS a nice evening, didn't put any pressure on him or discuss 'stuff' and at least we went to bed at the same time and he put his arm around me to sleep. So I'm sowing the seeds...

But trying to find a way of renting this room out is proving a problem - the agents we'd had recommended don't operate in our part of London and I need to find one who does - or maybe I should contact local colleges direct?

OP posts:
Paddlechick666 · 09/07/2008 15:19

tanee, any particular reason you're using agents?

this is a very good site www.moveflat.com/cgi-bin/dbr.asp?n=7332

i've also seen people advertising on MN for their partners who want Mon-Thurs lets whilst they work in the city.

that would be ideal for you maybe? then you have house to yourself at weekends.

another thought would be summer students/overseas students. my friend's daughter has done this in paris when she studied there last year. at 19yrs she's very independent and active and was really only in the room to sleep and out and about the rest of the time!

hth and glad you had a nice evening. agree that, hard as it might be, best to let dust settle and work back to enjoying being together.

UC · 09/07/2008 15:23

God, what a morning. He was here for 2 1/2 hours. I've just got back from a counselling session, so exhausted now...

When he got here, he was clearly not really sure what he wanted, he didn't talk about the house and our things at all. We made coffee, sat on the sofa, and I waited for him to say something. My mind is just blank at the moment, and I feel kind of frozen - I can't even remember what he did eventually say. I did a lot of singing ba-ba blacksheep in my head so as not to fill the gaps myself.

I did get v. upset at one point, and said that there was no-one here to hold me when I was upset, or cried last thing at night, no-one to tell me it'll all be all right. He asked me what I want, and I said that whenever I tell him what I want, it isn't what he wants to hear, and he stamps all over it, so what is the point. He kept asking though, and it made me wonder whether HE wanted me to say I want him back, I began to wonder if that was what he wanted and needed to hear - does that make sense? He had this kind of look on his face that sort of suggested that, or maybe that's just what I wanted to see. So I said it: I want it to work out for us, I want us to learn new ways to communicate more effectively, to go to sessions to talk more openly about intimacy. I can't remember if it was at that point, but he said that he felt I was stuck in a rut of what ifs and should haves. He said he doesn't see that I am seeing any other outcome than him coming home eventually. I said there are only 3 outcomes - we work it out, we enter into a separation agreement, or we get divorced. I said I don't want to get divorced at the moment, it's all too quick, he's dismantling everything too quickly. He asked what would I do if I was him - I said I would be asking myself really seriously whether I had done the right thing, that I would be going to see someone independent to talk it through, and I would be spending time on my own to think. I then asked him what he would do if he was me - he said if he was me, he would have trouble seeing how trust could ever be rebuilt, how could I not always be watching after him, wondering where he was. He commented about whether he could deal with trusting himself - I said that would be an issue whoever he was with. I also commented that if I was her, I'd have a problem trusting him too... trust has to be proven.

I asked him at one point whether he was happy - he said yes, but also that he was not happy about what has happened, and seeing me upset made him sad. But that's all, he then avoided further discussion of that.

He's worried about it becoming a v. messy and expensive divorce. He wanted to reassure me that he doesn't want me and the boys to have to move from the house - I think that was what he meant by talking about the house. He seemed reassured when I said that I don't want an expensive, messy split either. But I did say that if he was unreasonable, then I would fight my corner. In any event, I said I will not enter into any agreement without first getting a solicitor to say it was reasonable.

He stayed to have something to eat (!). I then went to my counselling session.

She says I must try and stop analysing, and start to think more about myself, not him, and trying to understand him. She sees that the larger part of me is hoping this will all resolve itself and all will be ok. It won't. And by not looking after myself I'm probably making it worse, looking after myself is what will make this situation change one way or another. Perhaps today's need to talk is a reaction to my new hair etc. and his subconscious need to know I am still available for him. He needs to see that I'm not. I think I might book a night away in a couple of weeks. But I am scared of being left alone with my own thoughts...

Goodness it's a roller coaster...

Paddlechick666 · 09/07/2008 15:30

Hi UC, been there done that got the t shirt wrt what your counsellor has said to you.

TFM's said it to me heaps too. Over analysing, always putting H at the middle of the issue to resolve and not myself etc etc.

tbh, for where you're at right now and in my own personal experience I think it's pretty normal.

we are genetically programmed to make things okay and to make it all better. for hte kids or for the partner.

it does take a little while to get out of that mindset as far as the partner is concerned.

you will get there tho and, again, in my experience it's a very healthy place to be for yourself and your forward relationship wiht the father of your children.

i think we freak them out and guilt trip (unspoken) even further by revolving our analysis around them.

I think you did really well this morning. Give yourself time to assimilate what was said but don't obsess over nuances of expression. You can't read his mind.

I also think it's a bloody excellent idea to take yourself off for a night away on your own. It's fantastically liberating and gives your self esteem a massive shot in the arm.

book a boutique hotel with a bath in the room and good room service. Even if you choose not to go out for the evening you can luxuriate in a pamper night in your very own boudoire!

Can I come too?

Tanee58 · 09/07/2008 15:42

PC - the agency we tried was used by DP's friend to get overseas students on a B&B basis - as we don't want to have a tenant using the kitchen/living room (enough trouble with DP complaining about DD in the living room without having a tenant as well!). So it's not really a flatshare we're offering, just a B&B.

So a student who's out all the time - or indeed, anyone who doesn't want to cook/watch our TV etc would be ideal - but how to find them?

UC whew! You have done SO WELL to deal with him. You must be feeling exhausted. It sounds like he's almost asking for your approval of his behaviour, to make him feel better. Take care of yourself, and don't give him the satisfaction.

OP posts:
Paddlechick666 · 09/07/2008 15:46

generally approach your local language schools/colleges or some of the central london colleges too.

google student homestay and there's a fair bit of info but unfortunatley each institute seems to organise it's own rather than a central service.

Tanee58 · 09/07/2008 15:58

PC Thanks! Have already found one possibility and will trawl through others later (really should be earning my living ).

OP posts:
ginnny · 09/07/2008 16:13

UC - FWIW, here's my take on your dh. I think it suits him when you are down and upset and making it clear you still want him back because then he is in control and has the upper hand and he can decide what he does. However, when you look as though you are moving on and not desperately waiting for him to return it panics him as it makes him realise that one of his options may not be there permanently, so he tries to test out the water to see if you are indeed coping well without him and ready to move on, which I think is what he did this morning (and maybe what the FB comment was all about). My ex was exactly the same, nice all the time we were in limbo and I was in pieces but turned on me when I pulled myself together, moved house and picked up my life again, without him in it.
The night away is a great idea - don't be afraid of being on your own, as PC says it is liberating. In fact lets all book up a whole hotel and all have a Teabag convention!
My stupid twat of a dp is probably propping up the bar again by now. His parting comment to me this afternoon when I went to get the dc from school was "well I was going to do something special for you, but since your such a bitch I probably will go to the pub again now and it will be all your fault!". So there it is, I've given him the excuse he needed
BUT - I've arranged to spend tomorrow afternoon with a really good friend who I haven't seen for ages so that's cheered me up a bit.

lilyloo · 09/07/2008 16:15

UC i am glad you have managed to say how you are feeling to him.
FWIW i think you have done brilliantly.
He really sounds as if he doesn't know what he wants. I hope he takes some of your advice on board about what you would do.
It seems like he wants to know that you still want him but then he doesn't want to make the steps to moving that forward. He just likes to know he has the option.
I think the talk of the house and the fact that he doesn't see you having any other outcome than getting back together does make it seem like he wants to continue as things are though for now. I am afraid that this may not be what you want to hear but he seems to be at a point where he is keeping the channels open with you whilst openly having ow. I think it's a fine line between saying you want him back and him knowing that you aren't going to be there for ever.
In some ways it is almost controlling you by keeping in touch for no real reason other than to know your there. I also am glad you pointed out the trust thing applies to any relationship as that is an easy excuse to use for not making a go of things for him.
I hope he has listened and it was interesting to see he didn't want to discuss how 'sad' it made you just how 'sad' it made him I wonder if he didn't want to accept that that was his fault.
As for the what if's of course you are going to have them but they are the things you can change if you were to give it another go!
I think a night away would be lovely and also maybe some time away from h. You have said what you wanted to say, he knows you would have him back and how hurt you are. I would try and make myself not available for a while and let him decide what he really wants whilst he sees you getting on with your life (even if you don't feel you are).

lilyloo · 09/07/2008 16:22

Ginny good on you.
I hate to say it but it seems like a big set up by him to get an excuse to sit in the pub!
How pathetic is it that he could have had a lovely evening with you and instead chose to create an argument so he could sit in the pub and feel sorry for himself.

Tanee58 · 09/07/2008 16:28

Ginny, YOU didn't force him into the pub - he's done that for himself. AND he knows it or he wouldn't have behaved like that. God, how they love to blame us for their own inadequacies ! Have a great time this evening with your dss and tomorrow with your friend, and leave the twonk to his bottles. They'll not be so cuddlesome as you would be. His loss!

OP posts:
Dior · 09/07/2008 16:31

Message withdrawn

ginnny · 09/07/2008 16:33

I was thinking the same thing myself Lily and I've just phoned him and we were right . I told him its over. I can't do this anymore.
I've torn the card up into 100 pieces and put it in an envelope with my engagement ring. I'm putting it through his letterbox.

lilyloo · 09/07/2008 16:36

Oh Ginny
How sad and poignant that it's today he clearly needs help and i hope this is a wake up call

ginnny · 09/07/2008 16:43

I doubt it very much.
Its up to him now.

UC · 09/07/2008 16:52

Oh dear Ginny, I am sorry. . Ball in his court.

Tanee58 · 09/07/2008 17:12

Ginny, I am so so sorry too. I would like to believe that this might be a wake up call to him, as Lily does - but I feel he has already had so many wake up calls from you and, indeed, from his own DD - and then he goes right back. Perhaps you do need to step right away from him now. You really deserve better than this.

I so know how you feel . These stupid, stupid men. And then they just curl up with their bottle, crying 'Poor Me' and it's everybody else's fault but theirs, until some other unsuspecting woman feels sorry for them...

OP posts:
Baffy · 09/07/2008 17:17

Oh ginny how awful I'm so so sorry he's done this to you. Today of all days. FWIW I think I'd do exactly the same thing with the card and the ring.

UC it is a rollercoaster isn't it

I think what your counsellor said - "She says I must try and stop analysing, and start to think more about myself, not him, and trying to understand him. She sees that the larger part of me is hoping this will all resolve itself and all will be ok. It won't. And by not looking after myself I'm probably making it worse, looking after myself is what will make this situation change one way or another."

is exactly what TFM has been saying you should do. And after hearing what he did/said today I think they are totally right.

Obviously the hair cut, your attitude etc made him start to wonder if you were moving on. I really do think he came today to 'check' that you'd still have him back if he came. And he got the reassurance he wanted.

In the meantime he has given you NO indication that he has any intention of coming back. And even said he is happy

He just wants you waiting in the background.

Please listen to TFM and start thinking about YOU and only YOU.

It was working. And the shitbag horrible person just had to come round and check he wasn't losing you, send you into further turmoil, then piss off again to his 'happy' life

You can do this UC you really can. PC's advice on the night away sounds great.

PC - am glad you made a decsion about dd

ladylush · 09/07/2008 17:54

Ds over his bee sting

UC - Interesting how he didn't say there was no chance of the two of you getting back together. I think Dior is right. I also think you should start getting on with your life, glamming yourself up, getting some wear out of those skinny jeans (take some pics of you out drinking with some gorgeous men - just kidnap them while you're out - and stick the pics on the fridge. It's nowhere near as flaunting as facebook lets face it His ego has gone off the radar. Time to focus on yours hun. No harm in dating either - could just mean enjoying male company and would be a boost for you. I think it was the right thing to be honest, but you have let him know how you feel and the rest is up to him. No need to make it too easy is there. Not when you're so worth the effort.

Ginnny - he's being a total knob Until he sorts himself out he cannot be the man you deserve. I am so sorry. Glad you are going away.

Dior - glad things better with your h

Baffy - hope your hangover is easing off. Norty lady

I have 3 shifts left at work. I am ecstatic

ladylush · 09/07/2008 17:57

PC - glad you are seeing Halvorsen. I thought his book was excellent.

ladylush · 09/07/2008 18:05

BTW, our tax disc was stolen (from a hand car wash place we think). Apparently there is a demand for them. Criminals have pens that erase the reg number. Just thought you might want to know in case you take your cars to garages etc. It's not something you check every day so you wouldn't necessarily know when/where it went missing.

ginnny · 09/07/2008 18:39

LL about your tax disc! Will you have to pay for another one? Nothing is safe these days is it?
I wish I was going away but sadly I'm stuck here.
Thanks for the text Baffy . Made me cry again but in a good way this time. Hope you are feeling better!
This holiday is going to be a nightmare. We are going to the same place where we have previously had 2 really happy holidays (one of which was just me and him on our own). I'd cancel but the dc will be devastated and we've spent so much money on it now.
I should be looking forward to it but now I'm just dreading it.

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