Glam & Fab Part 6 - The Summer of Discontent

[Tanee58]

Hope you all find your way onto this new one !

Thats the key Tanee, he needs to look forward to seeing you. If you think about it from his point of view, he is already down on himself then, although he has your love he also has your disapproval. He alsready doesn't like himslef very much and will like himself even less if he thinks you don't like him too. It is all a cycle. Once he feels 'safe' with you, feels that he isn't being judged he will be more likely to want to open up and talk, or you may even find that he changes of his own accord. The thing is Tanee, he has to be ready to stop drinking himself, if he isn't ready then all that is going to happen is that he is going to become alienated from you if you persist in trying to force him. I know it's difficult but, just ask yourself if you would rather live with him drinking but you both getting on or live with him drinking and you at each others throats?

By the way, he will suffer guilt when he see's you upset, he will blame himself, but that guilt probably makes him hate himself even more. It is a vicious circle. The thing is Tanee, we send a lot of time telling our DP's when they are letting us down, when we feel miserable blah, blah, blah, we expect them to make us feel good about ourselves but I think sometimes we fail to realise that they may be suffering from self esteem issues too, they may want to feel loved and good about themselves but being men and not running on emotions like we do, they don't know how to ask for it. They have a void that they don;t know how to fill. That may be where alcohol and the likes come into it.

Goodness, TFM, you are SO spot on - I feel like you've beem inside his head! When this all started last year, he complained that he'd thought he had my unconditional love - and then found me making conditions suddenly (like please don't drink, please come to bed) - so I think you are exactly right.

Years ago when I was a teenager, I read a novel about Charles II and his wife (I was madly in love with Charles whilst all my friends fancied David Cassidy ) Anyway, the writer made some comment about the best way to deal with a man's bad behaviour, is to smile through it and greet him cheerfully even when your heart is breaking - it disarms him as he's expecting recriminations and what he gets, instead, is love and a warm welcome. Catherine of Braganza did that after the first storms of their marriage, and they reached a modus vivendi of mutual affection and respect that lasted the rest of their marriage, despite the myriad OWs. That stuck in my head - though I've found it hard to practise. But I shall try!

Tannee - At alanon they tell you to 'detach with love' which is not reacting to their drinking but still loving them. It is so so hard to do, particularly in my case where he is so vile and unlikeable when drunk.
They have a motto for when they are drunk and a row is looming.
Think to yourself "does it need saying and does it need saying now" before you speak. I found this really helpful (although I don't always do it and I think afterwards I wish I had!!)
Another of their mottos which I find helps is "you didn't cause it, you cannot cure it and you can't control it" which is so true. Basically, until he admits he's got a problem it is best to leave him to it.

TFM

Hopefully there will be a few more of them going around for others very soon.

Now I've just read that and thought "I should take my own advice!!!"

That is so right Tanee, you really must try!! It does work! Anyway, who are we to tell our men how they should behave? We are their partners not their mothers. If we don't like their behaviour we are free to walk away aren't we. If we wish to stay with them then we have to accept that there are things about them we may not like. Just as there maybe things about us that they don't like. We don't have to approve but we don't have to disapprove either. We can simply remove ourselves from any of their behaviour we don't like. Believe me, he will get the message

Thats what I did Ginny! I loved with detachment. It worked for me

Hi lily I do hope so xx

Rushing off home but Dior and TFM -

I just had a lovely text off H saying how 'beautiful ds is... just like his mum' - so am very
It's a tiny gesture in some ways but such a massive step to get something like that from him out of the blue with no prompting.
Well it means a lot to me anyway, seems a bit daft written down

Catch up later xx

oh Baffy - that's lovely and after everything it must really mean a lot.
I've got a tear in my eye now

It's not daft at all Baffy. If it makes you happy then it is lovely. I for one am just so glad that you getting something positive from H. You deserve it!xx

hi all, i am lurking. sorry for not posting, haven't been feeling too great.

just wanted to say, Tanee, there's a line in one of those books about "the wisdom, and the pain, of silence" which kinda sums up what you've been saying.

it's incredibly painful to silence your own needs/frustration/disapproval at their behaviour but when playing the long game it does appear to pay off.

things here aren't too great. am sniping at H after trying to schedule time when he will have dd. he offered to babysit but now, apparently, it can only be mid-week as he has other comittments.

it would seem he can do weekends but only if it's planned. my response was "fine, let's plan then. who get's priority?"

needless to say, no further response. bitchy and childish i know but ffs, i've been trying to get him to organise a schedule for 8 months!

we are potty training here, it's exhausting.

think weather must be making me feel pretty glum.

dior & tfm, so glad things are going well for you both. good news for you too baffy.

have switched agents and am hoping that things on the house will start moving again.

oh, I've had a response to "who takes priority?"

it was "me of course x"

prick

ps: mac, feel your pain but in fact H has rarely managed to put any of his dc ahead of himself. when dd was admitted Nov 06 he didn't even come to hospital

Message withdrawn

Baffy, that's lovely - I am crossing everything for you (oops, just fell over )

PC - yes, I am going to read those books (I've been putting it off, hoping things would improve). Good luck with the potty training. Dd and I were talking about the area where she'll be going to 6th form - my old school - and the area is very nice. She said she didn't really know it well, as she hasn't been there much. I said we were there a lot when she was little, as it was my old stamping ground and I liked the shops, and mentioned that she'd once peed in Woolworths. 'What did you do?!! she asked, appalled. I said I just said 'ok, time to go home now', and ran , leaving a hooge puddle behind... I still wonder whether they'll nab me with a bucket and mop when I return!

Had a lovely afternoon watching Kung Fu Panda, i really enjoyed it too .

Lovely text baffy hope he does keep it up.

TFM - yes you are right i do still feel unworthy in so many ways of dh.
Is the old logic verses feelings again.
I know he is so very lucky to have me but i dont always feel it.
I have been reading a book (about losing weight with the power of the mind) and it talks a lot about the way we 'talk' to ourselves. I really dont think i think of myself very highly tbh.
I can talk the talk and tell you all the wonderful things about me but i still dont feel it always.
I can hear myself saying 'you have no right to this wonderful life so stop kidding yourself' if that makes sense.

I know it is a self esteem thing but not really sure how to boost it.
Sure TFM will give me lots of tips though .

Anyway off to bed now - dh is away so i have the whole bed to myself and it feels really wierd only have the 2 children here.
Off to london tomorrow to have supper with h and staying over and having breakfast together too and then doing something with the dcs for the day and all coming home together - really looking forward to it.

PC, , I'm sorry.

HW, your dh is incredibly lucky to have you. You have been an amazing person to have dealt with everything the way you obviously have. I hope you have a lovely time in London - hope he's taking you somewhere special.

Baffy, what a lovely text. Don't delete it!!

Tanee, I don't have any experience dealing with a partner who may be alcoholic, I can only imagine how patient you must have to be. I guess it's like any of the problems our H/Ps have - they have to actually acknowledge there is a problem before they can face them or even start to deal with them. The advice on loving attachment struck a chord with me especially, and the stuff about them also needing morale boosts. I think I always saw H as so strong and always coping, I probably relied on him to support me, and didn't always see his needs. God how I wish I had thought more. I so want to tell him all the things I wish I had done/could do/want to do and say, but I fear it would make no difference while he's in that luminescent stage of first lust, where he feels he can communicate with ow about "everything" - of course, they don't have anything difficult to communicate yet... How long does that first flush take to start to fade, and for every day reality to begin to bite??? Patience is a virtue, I'm just not sure how much I have. It's that long game again... sigh.

I am wondering how to get H to want to spend time with me when I hardly see him except when he picks up/drops off DSs. I am trying to be cheerful etc. on the phone, but I am so scared that all he might be feeling is relief that I appear to be "getting over it" (he hasn't actually said that, it's just my fear). By acting all calm and dignified, won't he start to think I'm ok? Am feeling low tonight. I wonder if it's a Monday thing, as we all seem a bit deflated. After our talk 10 days ago, I really want another one, but I don't know how to ask, what to say, what to do.

Hello all, it's been a while! I have tried to skim read the boards, but my goodness there's a lot, we can certainly talk! Such a lot of highs and lows....

I don't know where to start with everyone, what can I say. I will hopefully get a bit more caught up with things over the next few days.

GUP, thank you so much for getting in touch with me, I am really touched by it - thank you Thanks too to those of you who asked after me on here, it's very lovely to know I've been thought about.

Baffy, I am especially thinking of you though, my god. You are one of the most amazing women I have ever known and met, and your courage never, ever fails to amaze me. It feels like we have been on such similar journeys, at least to start with, but your love for h is just amazing. You know where I am if you ever want to talk offline.

Well, not much news from me. I am fine, work has been incredibly busy and I've been very focused on settling dd into her new school. I finally got her into the school I'd been waiting for, when the head made an exception for her. Amazingly, it has gone so fabulously well. She loves it, and so do I. She has settled really well, her teacher is just lovely, she's made loads of new friends and is having a blast. It's been lovely meeting the parents and teachers too. It's a very small school, only 20 kids per class, and they are all so friendly and caring to each other, the Year 5 girls always come over to dd in the playground to say hello, it's just lovely.

As for the man front, h is behaving himself with me, and especially so with dd. He is (amazingly) still with slutguts, though I heard him on the phone to her speaking very unpleasantly. Ha ha! Last time I wrote I had sort of started getting too friendly with a friend of mine, but I've now ended that, and we've gone back to being just friends. A couple of weeks ago I met up with an ex from 12 years ago, who I haven't seen since. He now has a little girl with another girl, but guess what, at the end of the night he tried to kiss me.... do they never change? I am happily single, and happy with my life with dd.

True to my facebook tea bag status, I have just been away for a few days, to Spain, with dd, and a girlfriend and her ds. We had such a great time, just sitting round the pool all day, and the kids had a wonderful time.

I have missed MN though, and have thought about you ladies a lot. Are there any plans for another meet? I am definitely up for it if there is!

xxx

Good Morning everyone

HW I know exactly what you mean. I have been there and worn the t shirt not anymore though. Lets face it, if we can't rely on ourselves to like us, love us, respect us then who can we rely on? We want other people to love and respect us but we can hardly expect them to if we can't even do that for ourselves.
My self esteem is at an all time high at the moment and thats because I am feeling good about myself. I am wearing all the lovely clothes that I promise myself i will wear when i am feeling thinner so, I am wearing skirts and heels rather than trousers and flats/boots and, I am wearing nice colours instead of black! I have had my hair restyled, I'm wearing a brighter lipstick and I'm even wearing nail polish! I think we get stuck in a rut HW. We aim to be someone different by losing weight etc and we sort of put ourselves on hold until we achieve whatever it si we are aiming for. I've done that for years. I have bought beautiful clothes but not felt thin enough or pretty enough to wear them. Well I have made myself wear them and guess what? I feel thin enough and pretty enough now. One of the mums at school yesterday even asked me if I was having an affair! she told me I was glowing, looked lovely and really happy. It made my day! So, HW why don't you try doing something that takes you out of your comfort zone? Do something different for yourself, wear something different or have your hair restyled, take the plunge! Do anything to give you a boost, just don't be frightened of change, enjoy it! You will still be you underneath it all, you will just be a happier you

UC why don't you ask DH if he would like to join you in taking the children out for a day during the holidays, you could suggest a theme park or something. Put the focus on the children, afterall you may not be a couple but you are still parents so there is no reason why you can't enjoy a family day together. Tell him that you want the DC's to see that there is no hostility between you and that although he hs move on you would like to think you can still be friends.

Hi Lilybubble it's lovely to 'see' you. You sound so sorted!

Hope you are feeling better about things today PC.

Love to everyone else xx

Thanks TFM - I have actually just had my hair done (a bit short actually but so much better than the mess it was - and i have a lot of compliments.) With the clothes i have never really shyed away from wearing what i know suits me and even if i say so myself i do think i have a good sense of style (most people would be surprised what size i wear as i do think i hide my weitht fairly well).
I do need to do more for me though - but as usual there is really not much time for me to orginize it all.
Do you remember when i went on holiday alone last year as h could not get all the time off? Well i think that is when i felt really high - certainly out of my comfort zone. But lets face it i can hardly do that all the time .
I have a few theatre trips i want to book so i may do that so at least i will have some things to look forward to and i will know that i have actually done something about it.

Anyway I am really looking forward to the train journey today and meeting h tonight - yes he has booked a lovely resturant which we all love.

UC - try what TFM said - its worth a go. Not really sure what else to suggest - if there is ow on the secene she will be telling him to be cautious of you too, so it may not be all him iyswim.

Morning everyone.

Bit of a drama last night - got home and walked through the door to ds screaming in pain. Have never ever seen him say he's in pain let alone cry with it. He was saying his tummy was hurting inside and couldn't even sit still, let alone have a cuddle/drink etc. After a few minutes I decided just to take him straight up to the out of hours doctor. He was writhing round in agony the whole way (thank god for my sister comforting him) - we got to the hospital and they agreed to see him immediately.
I was explaining to the nurse what had happened and he suddenly went calm. Then he spotted a table full of beads and wanted to go and play!!!

Whatever it was he was clearly in a lot of pain. But by the time we saw the doctor he was absolutely fine!!

They checked him over and couldn't find what caused it. Could have even been trapped wind! But my god it was scary at the time!

Kids eh!

H came straight down to be with us and was great.
In fact, the nurse commented on what good parents we were?! It was such a strange comment. But he was trying to explain to us what may be wrong with ds, but ds was adamant he wanted to play and doing the usual 'daddy daddy daddy' etc and h very much focussed on ds while I spoke to the nurse, and so he commented that we made a good team and how impressed he was with the way we were parenting ds and what a good child he was. All a bit weird. Made me and at the same time...

lilybubble great to see you. Always miss you when you're not here. Thank you for the offer to talk too!
You sound so happy and in a good place right now. I'm so so pleased for you. And that's fantastic news about dd and school too It's made my day reading such a lovely update from you.

Definitely agree about a meet up if we can organise it?

PC I'm sorry you're still so down. He is unreal We know HE comes first, that's obvious, but when it comes to his children will he ever make some concrete arrangements and put himself out for dd?! Sorry, getting angry on your behalf. Did you reply to that?

I admire you with the potty training! I'm not ashamed to admit, I'm putting it off as long as possible!!

HW hope you have a lovely time in london, sounds great!

UC totally agree with TFM's advice. Family day out, even at the weekend, could be a good way to spend some time with him without any pressure. No point arranging another talk just yet if you're not too sure what you'd say anyway.
Could you even invite him round to do bath/bed time one night, then have a drink with him once the boys have gone to bed? Again no pressure, but just to be in his company and spend some time with him?

Thats all good stuff HW

Do you mind me asking you, what is it about yourself or about H that makes you think you aren't good enough or worthy of him?

For me, my problems started when I gave up work, when I became a SAHM to dd I love my 'job' now but when I left work I think i left a lot of my self esteem behind. I know I have a good brain, I know I am a capable woman but being at home you don't really get the chance to show that off. I used to have this thing going on where I didn't think DP respected me anymore because i didn't work but now I realise that i projected a lot of my own feelings onto him. He is more than happy for me to be at home. Nowadays I embrace it. I feel lucky to be able to stay home and be here for my children, have a clean house, no stress of childcare. I am happy to be a kept woman! I just wonder what makes you feel not worthy HW

Baffy. It could indeed have been trapped wind, i can vouch for the fact tis very painful!

I'm really pleased that H was supportive, the nurses comments were nice too

ho hum. H changed relationship status on FB over the weekend to in a relationship with ow. Flaunting again. Why do I even give him the time of day?