Glam & Fab Part 6 - The Summer of Discontent

[Tanee58]

Hope you all find your way onto this new one !

He came apologised - said is hard for him too - I said he made the mess (him and her) not me not my children but we have to live with it
He loves his daughters so much (and I know he must love hers too and I know that is part of why I love him because he is a good dad but it hurts so bloody much)..but I really am not sure I can do this
Anyway OW baby been discharged - and there's the rub - she is an immature over reacting manipulative little girl and of course if she phones to say baby is ill he will go running ...and if we were back together it would be 100x worse and I have no doubt she would use it again when she sees how effective it is
Feel like I have taken a massive step back but these are things I need to know if I can deal with if I was to EVER take him back

McD so sorry for you , that must be so hard and i can completely understand you lacking sympathy. Hope you have got sorted today.

Baffy glad to see you seem to be working things out , a day at a time.

HW i suppose it's coming to terms with it and accepting it will always be a part of your life.
I too struggle when it's the time to stop expecting reassurance. Do you have to ? Do they owe it to you forever ? Who knows i suppose it's just a day at a time again. My fear is driving them away by needing reassurance at every wobble and not turning every wobble into a reason to brood on 'that' iyswim !

Tannee well done on walk i am walking , well running as far as car and back with this awful weather it's rained for days and due to for rest of week!

Baffy - I think a holiday away from H will do you good. Give you time to think without him around. You sound much more positive lately and I hope things work out for you.
Tannee - OMG that old "just a nightcap" line. I've heard that so many times. You did right. The best thing is to leave them to it.
I've had a crappy weekend. Same old rubbish to deal with. We are off on holiday in just over 2 weeks so I'm trying to keep things sweet till then, but after that I'm thinking its time to make a clean break.
Its our anniversary on Wednesday and I just don't feel like celebrating at all (I don't think he does either ). He will never change and I'm sick of it all. Sick of trying to flog a dead horse.
Sorry - in a bad mood today, this weather doesn't help matters.

MCD - you sound as if you are doing well and thinking about whether YOU can cope and that is to admired. I am really not sure if i could - i stuggle with what mine has put me through still and at least i know there was never a chance of offspring (he had the snip), but i bet if there had been she too would have found a way to have a baby (and he too firmly believes that too now ).
Its because we are woman and we know just how devious and manipulitive we can be , and we can see all the future problems (what a pity these poor thoughtless men dont/didnt?).
But good on you for now thinking about whether you can cope or not - you will be no less a person if you cant you know, and may actually be better for at least knowing yourself well enough to voice it.

Lilly thats it - at what point do we no longer need that reasurance daily (surely we deserve it as long as it appears in our daily lives?). Touble is some days are better than others and if he brings it up he thinks he is making me feel bad - i wish he could understand that actually it makes me feel better (like today - i ask if there has been any contact today - there is more now that he is leaving and she wants to get as much of his role as possible so it is done with the pretence that it is for the good of the bussiness - and he says oh she is not in today - i just wish he could tell me that before i feel the urge to ask him iyswim).
What i really want from her is an acknowlegement that she really was a fool for even thinking that h would leave me for her in the first place - but i will never get it which makes me think she really is a cold hearted bitch anyway (and actually i dont like to think that about anybody and would rather see some good in her).

Anyway off to the cinema now - to get out of the house as we cannot go outside with this bloody rain and we got wet enough at legoland to last us all summer .

Sorry to hear that ginny - i think that is what i worry about too, can men ever really change? H was always a flirty type and whist i dont want him to change his personality i now hate to think of him flirting with anyone at all . I then feel bad that he is 'under the thumb' so to speak.
Anyway hope you get to have a good holiday and at least some sunshine.

Got about a month until mine and even the thought of the swimsuit is not giving me the required kick up the backside to firm myself up - I am deluding myself by thinking that i will take my trainers on holiday and go for an early morning run everyday and try and do some swimming too .

lol HW. I am trying not to even think about putting a bikini on! I'm just going to avoid all the mirrors and pretend I'm skinny again!!!
That's the thing isn't it. I don't even know if I'd like dp anymore if he stopped drinking. Its so much a part of his personality and his life. I'd be happy if he stuck to 2 or maybe 3 pints a day, which is still way over the healthy limit, but there seems to be no moderation with him. Its all or nothing. A bottle of wine will last him about half an hour, he glugs it back like water . If left on his own he'll happily go through 3 bottles.
But ... he doesn't have a problem apparently. "All men drink that much!"

oh ginny I'm not surprised you don't feel like celebrating
I hope the holiday does you good.

macd, reading your posts really does scare me. I think will I be in exactly the same position 18 months down the line and how will I cope. Perhaps the baby is that one step too far that we'll never get over

HW thanks so much again. I really do think a trip down would be great. Perhaps we could look at setting a date once I get back from this holiday xx

p.s. HW definitely leave the trainers at home! Why take them and make yourself feel guilty looking at them?!

swimming sex... that'll be enough exercise!

Ginny, I am so sorry you feel that way - and I wonder if reading your posts is like reading my future . I don't know how much Cointreau DP had last night - at least I didn't find an empty bottle - but I suspect the only reason he didn't drink wine is that all the bottles in the rack were mine and most of them were white!

One of his friends came to the play with me yesterday. She's an old date of his from about 30 years ago and has always kept in touch, so she knows what he's like, and is seriously worried also. She says I've been so good for him, and she really hopes I'll be able to stick around to support him - if he realises that he needs to seek help. She once had him in her spare room for an entire summer, being depressed and getting very unkempt. She said, quite frankly, he's an alcoholic and that's the root of his problem. I hate giving him that label yet - as he CAN go without drink when he's working, if he's driving, during the daytime, and only hits the bottle after work, at night. At least he hasn't yet reached the point of waking up in the morning and wanting a drink.

And I don't think the drinking is the problem - it's all the other demons in his head that are making him drink - to deaden the disquiet.

However, that doesn't excuse it, and I suspect that there are many kinds of alcoholism, and I'm just fooling myself by pretending he isn't one. .

She even said it's affecting his looks - which voiced something I'd felt, but had tried to put it down to his age. I don't like the fact that his jawline is sagging and his complexion getting red - he used to be so beautiful - and her comment after not having seen him for a year drove it home. It's not age - he's only 54 - it's the lifestyle.

I would have really liked to talk to him a little last night. He noticed that I was a bit preoccupied after the play. They were all being jolly in the house where they had performed, having a drink before a delicious dinner, taking photos of everyone and larking about. As I was driving, I drank very little, and though I normally like the people in the company, I just couldn't join in the fun & when one of them said 'right, I want a photo of everyone in the room', I just sloped off to the loo. Someone had taken a really nice photo of us and I just felt so fake. When he asked if I was OK, I should have said, yes, but I need to talk to you later. But I just said I was tired (which was also true). I just felt very distant from everything, though he was affectionate, and then the 'nightcap' incident when he'd previously said he was coming to bed soon, just put the lid on it.

Sorry, droning on again, all me, me, me. Shut up and go get some lunch.

Don't be silly - your not droning on!!
Its horrible to have to put a label on it isn't it. I hate that word alcoholic, it conjures up such nasty images of old tramps on park benches drinking cider out of a paper bag!! My dp goes to work OK, and can function for so long without a drink, but when he does drink he really does it to extreme.
I know what you mean about the physical features, dp's face is now constantly red, and puffy looking, he is quite slim but he has a terrible distended beergut ... when I see old photos of him I could cry.
My dp also drinks to dull whats going on in his head and that is the root of it I think. He feels bad about himself / his childhood so he drinks to numb the feeling, then he sobers up and feels worse and so the whole thing goes on and on.
I think counselling would have been the answer but he stopped going (don't know why) and I think it may be the same for your DP - if he can get a good counsellor who can pinpoint what it is in his head that he is trying to escape from and help him deal with it.
Anyway - I'm going on now I want to go and get some lunch too but its pouring down!!

Oh Tanee

I think it's hard when someone voices their concerns and it's exactly the sorts of things that have been in the back of your head, but you've been to scared to really think about them and face up to them.

It does sound like he has a serious problem with alcohol Do you think he notices himself the effect it having on him? Looks-wise I mean?

Will you be able to get some time with him to talk? Maybe tonight? It sounds as though you could do with getting all of this out in the open, sooner rather than later.
(Easier said than done I know!)

Perhaps he too needs to face up to the harsh realities of what he is doing. If the alcohol is merely masking a bigger problem to do with his life in general, then for all of your sakes, however hard it is, surely he is better facing up to that now and making whatever changes are necessary.

There's a lot of good things still there for you. I know the nightcap incident was the last straw. But he did notice you were preoccupied and ask you about it. He was being affectionate. He obviously loves you.
Reading between the lines I do think there's still so much there for you two and you can both make each other happy.

I guess it's down to whether he can address the demons and put some of them to rest.
xx

Hi everyone

Just a quickie as I have my newly engaged daughter with me, due to get married in 2010 but desperate to get planning

I just need to say that YES, men can change. I can certainly vouch for that.
DP has changed immensley and rather than thinking that this is just a flash in the pan, just to get me back I am now going with it and I can honestly say I am the happiest I have been with him ever. This weekend has been just beautiful. Nothing special, just a close and happy family. It will stick in my mind for a long time.

It has been hard work but, it has been well worth it. A few months ago I would never have thought i would be sat here posting this to you, I thought as a couple DP and I were finished. Who knows what the future will bring but, I am certainly enjoying the present.

So ladies, don't give up hope and don't give up trying. Just remember that there are different ways of trying. Just never forget who you are and what you want. Don't lose yourselves in them, don't try to sort thier problems for them because it can't be done. They have to work that out for themselves.

DP told me this weekend that he has never felt secure with me, he has never felt good enough and always had this underlying feeling that I would leave him. This stems right back to when we were 17 and we dated!! We only went out the once and he was very quiet, hardly spoke to me. Then, while I was in the toilet I bumped into a 'friend' who told me she had been out with him and he was selfish blah, blah, blah, she painted a not so pleasant picture of him. Then his step mum told me he was too immature for me so, I dumped him! I didn't go out with him again. And he has never forgotten! He told me he had had a crush on me for ages and was over the moon when I agreed to go out with him and was devastated, in true teenage style, when I dumped him. He thought it was fate when we bumped into each other again as adults but has never forgotten how horribly I dumped him
And would you believe. same said friend who warned me about him in the toilets is same said friend who moved in on him and went out with him when we were dating as adults!!

Not only was it lovely that he opened up but, it could also explain his insecurities and controlling behaviour. I feel so happy that he told me, it feels like he trusts me, like he is letting his own defences down or maybe, he has actually worked out for himself what causes his outburts. Whatever it is, it's great. It's a big achievement.

Right, must go, dd looking impatient but I will be back to read properly later.

Lots of love xxx

Hi Baffy, I wouldn't be surprised if he has noticed his looks fading - but he's so defensive that he'd just put it down to age, as he does all his other aches and pains.

It was so obvious that he knew what I was thinking and immediately leapt on the defensive. I'd lain in bed for about 20 mins, listening for the bathroom, and it was just silence, so I went down and found he'd closed the kitchen door - so as not to disturb one friend in the next room - and had poured himself a Cointreau. He must have seen the look on my face - I just stared at the bottle and said, 'Oh...' and he just said, 'Aren't I allowed a nightcap'. I just said, 'No, it's not that - I just hoped you'd be coming to bed soon because I wanted your company.' and went upstairs and lay awake, MAKING myself not get up again and go down, because I knew if I did, there'd be words said we'd regret, till he finally came up at 4am and said, 'oh, you're still awake. Have you slept?'. I gave him a hug and said I loved him, and he said, 'even though I disappoint you?'

So he KNOWS how I feel, and he STILL does it, and I'm sure part of him hates himself for hurting and disappointing me, so he does it again to drown his guilt. Ginny, you described such a similar cycle with your DP . I so needed to talk, but it was 4am, he was drunk and we were both dead tired. He's in Norfolk tonight to see a show with last year's company (staying with Norfolk Lady of course ha ha hmm!) and doesn't get home till about 10pm tomorrow - by which time we'll both be tired again and both have to work the next day. So there'll be little chance to talk; we can't really talk whilst he's away, as there's no privacy where he is and I'd prefer it face to face, anyway. Might trail after him to Derbyshire in a fortnight - but I just feel in two minds about seeing him at the moment. I'm in a very strange place emotionally.

Yes, his friend yesterday said she thought, after seeing him with me, that he really loves me and she hopes we get through it. We both agreed that he's on self-destruct and if he's left alone and doesn't get help, he WILL turn into one of those smelly old wino men sitting by the roadside with a paper bag. He used to joke that I'd saved him from that fate - but that was before we bought this house .

TFM BIG - I really needed to read a happy post. You are an example to us all

Oh, I forgot - I DID have a great Saturday with my girlfriend. We went to the Museum of Garden History - an odd place, but with a very pretty garden (very funny notice about the damage done to their box hedges by a fox, who had tried to make love to them!

PS HW are the supplements 100mg? My holland and barrett only do 50mg. I get mine from Healthspan. Cheapest I have found xx

I do hope so Tanee. I feel almost guilty feeling so happy when there is so much sadness on here. I really wish i could make it better for you all xx

Hiyah

Interesting you should say your DH said he felt insecure with you TFM. I read an article in the paper last week about a man who runs a company which sets "honey traps" to see if people are faithful. He said that the men he trapped generally had 2 things in common they were "insecure" and "not as attractive as their partners"

Interesting eh!

HW The day when you no longer need reassurance will be the day you are happy and content with yourself, when you feel worthy and deserving of H's love and loyalty, when you realise that he is the lucky one to have you in his life, when you have removed him from the pedestal and put yourself on it!

Tanee, I hope you don't mind my saying but, if I were you I wouldn't acknowledge DP's drinking at all. I know it's hard but by showing your disapproval this increases his guilt and causes him to be defensive which in turn causes hostility between you and breaks down all communication. In a way he may be wanting you to disapprove so that he has an excuse to drink and to blame you. If I were you I would try very hard to keep quiet. Make no comment on it at all. Let him face his demons. When he has to stand on his own two feet and take responsibility for his drinking then at least communications between you will be open. IYSWIM. xx

Hey! Well that's my DP on both counts!!

TFM - I'm am SO happy you're happy - it gives us all hope and you certainly deserve it !

And - I think you're right about DP linking me and his drinking etc, it certainly chimes - which is ironic as we have had many years of happy drinking together. What concerns me is that he now drinks alone (well, he probably always did, but I wasn't lying upstairs alone in bed waiting for him) - so he's probably getting mixed messages from me - one day I happily sit with him sipping on my wine till the early hours - and we spend happy time together, on another occasion I'm frowning at his empties . Poor man, he's probably right confused.

But I shall try to follow your advice and ignore the drinking - should I stick with just talking about us and the pressures he admitted to last week, and leave the alcohol out of the equation? I shall TRY .

TFM - thank you!

Message withdrawn

Tanee, tbh I would try not talking about any of your relationship issues. I would try to give it a break for now. I know they need solving but i do think that lines for communication have to be open and defenses have to be down. At the moment he is probably expecting 'the talk' and so his defenses will be up almost all the time (which may also make him drink more)

I would try to relax with him, don't mention the drinking but enjoy his company, talk about anything but the relationship and the booze. Once you have him onside again, thats when you can start to talk. I don't think that as things are at the moment you will get very far, I think you will end up feeling worse, and we don't want that!!

Whatever the problem Tanee it can afford a break. It may still be there when you get back to it but it may be more easily solvable if you both feel as though you are on the same side

Dior, thats lovely! Your posts are glowing too

It's lovely to 'see' you feeling a lot more positive and brighter. You might be able to kick the prozac into touch soon

Thanks TFM, you're probably right, especially as we have so little time together until the autumn. I shall try to make those few times 'good times' then - and maybe try to meet him away from home, since he won't then have a bolthole for his nightcaps. That should be easy enough - he's only got a few breaks long enough to come home for, anyway, so after tomorrow if I want to see him, I have to go off to wherever they are touring (like the Channel Isles in August, when we always have a fantastic time ). I DO want him to look forward to seeing me, after all, since he doesn't care for his home! I do think that when I get upset, he suffers guilt, and it's a negative cycle I'd like to break....