Husband said he wants to spilt up and I’ve been totally blindsided - part 3

[mummy917]

Just another follow on thread from the last 2 😊

I wouldn't get him a phone yet @mummy917 - he's 9, isn't he? That's very young. Instead look for something he can do on a computer or tablet. You can use WhatsApp on either of those, or maybe something like Instagram that you setup just for him (and potentially the other DC too) and his dad, and limit access to?

Just a heads up, if he likes football they are looking to change the kickoff to 7pm on Sunday for the England match so Sunday evening might be a no go, could you do it tomorrow evening instead?

The original time of 1am kick off has been agreed, which is a shame!

I wouldn't get DC a phone for this purpose at the moment. If you planned secondary school then keep it until then.

It could actually cause more issues for your son because it opens up a pathway for stbexh to find out what you're doing or worse start having inappropriate conversations where his dad talks about himself, his relationships or to continue his narrative that you are at fault. A 9yr old doesn't have to capacity for this type of relationship and it will hurt him more than what's currently happening.
Perhaps what would be better is that if your son wants to speak to his dad then you message him to say "DC9 is going to call/face time you in the next 10 minutes as he would like to speak to you please" and then if he chooses not to answer then that's on him. Your son can then make his own mind up about what/who his dad's priorities are and you are there to support as needed.

It is NOT your responsibility to maintain the relationship between your exh and his children @mummy917. Your only responsibility is to support your DC and to ensure that they can have a relationship with their dad if he can be bothered.

I do have to agree. I think those sound is excellent advice.

I don’t think your STBX is capable of handling calls with your DC1 in a mature way at all.

Thanks for all your advice again. I’ve tried messaging before the kids ring so he can make sure he is around to answer, but it hasn’t made any difference. I will try it again and see what happens. I’m starting to feel at a loss of what to do for the best or how much effort I should really let the kids put in, when it should be him doing it all on his end.

It is NOT your responsibility to maintain the relationship between your exh and his children . Your only responsibility is to support your DC and to ensure that they can have a relationship with their dad if he can be bothered

I completely agree with this 100%. You are doing really well OP and I think your approach of saying, I’m always here for you and you can talk to me about anything, is exactly right.

I had one friend in particular who fell into the trap of making excuses for her ex. Please try not to fall into the habit of creating a fictional, engaged idealised Dad for the DC. It's incredibly damaging. It is tempting to say, "He's probably busy," or "He can't always answer his phone," or "I'm sure he didn't mean it." My friend did that to protect her children from being hurt, but making excuses just makes things more confusing. It damages the children and their sense of self worth later on. It can set children up to accept excuses from friends and partners who treat them badly and lull them into making excuses for unsatisfactory relationship partners in the future.

Children are better served by an honest reality. So it's fine to say, "Your Dad loves you in the way he's capable of." Make it clear that if he doesn't respond or doesn't show up, that's all about him and his issues, and that you will show up and that it is about him not about the DC.

Obviously don't demonise Twatoo, but the DC don't need to excuse every disappointment, making up an innocent explanations. If someone repeatedly lets them down, whether it's a parent or even a school friend, it's healthier for them to understand that this is a limitation in that person, not something they caused and that they deserve better.

Also you are responsible for your relationship with your DC. He is responsible for his relationship with them. Please don't try to tell him off or nag him into the communicative separated Dad you want him to be. You can't do that. Its not your job to manage his relationships for him.

It's much better to put your energy where it can make a difference. Gradually surround your children with good people who will show interest in them, grandparents, uncles, teachers, coaches, family friends and neighbours. I expressly told my DC that they had lots of role models; they benefit from having a network of adults who are kind, dependable and interested in them and that they don't need one perfect role model.

I realised that I didn't want my children's narrative to be, "My Dad kept on letting us down and he ruined our lives." Instead, I wanted the narrative to become, "Yes, my Dad had his issues and wasn't very engaged, but we had lots of other adults who loved us, supported us and were there for us so it didn’t make much difference.”

The thing is though, if he is letting them down that SHOULD be the narrative.

In shielding them from hurt you are shielding them from truth. And that’s not usually a good thing.

Does it hurt to think your dad is a selfish bastard who doesn’t care about you? Yes. But what hurts more? Dangerous lessons like “someone can love me and, constantly let me down. So I should forgive it”.

So in saving them a little pain now, you potentially cause a fuckton of damage later.

Honesty is usually the best policy.

It would be different if he was clearly having a breakdown, but he isn’t. He’s just a bastard. That doesn’t mean you need to highlight that he is a bastard but, certainly don’t cover for him.

The other issue with trying to make him look conflicted rather than just letting them see who he really is, is he will use that as an opportunity to spin YOU as the unreasonable one.

I think we need to get comfortable with the idea that childhood isn’t all sunshine and roses. Rather than trying to excuse his behaviour, just make it clear that YOU will be there for them if they ever need to talk. Give them that strong person. And validate them when they are angry at their dad “those feelings are perfectly understandable and I’m sorry he’s behaved that way, I’m here if you ever need to talk about it”.

And most importantly, never ever tell them that daddy loves them after he’s just betrayed their trust or let them down.

Fair enough, this is probably more sensible advice.

@mummy917 I think it’s important how you frame his lack of interest. As others have said if you reassure them every time he lets them down he loves them they will equate love with being ignored. This will cause them problems in their own relationships as they grow. Instead it’s best to minimise the impact on their lives. A quick ‘Daddy isn’t great at picking up the phone is he?’ approach would be better. Then change the subject and give them something positive to think about. ‘Shall we go have an ice cream / walk / play a game’. Obviously if they are upset you can let them know that their feelings are valid and you understand why they feel the way they do but that they are special and he is the one missing out on a wonderful family.

My parents are divorced and my dad isn’t great at keeping contact. I know he loves us but he’s very self centred. But I’ve come to realise that he’s the one who has missed out on all the fun we have had. The conclusion I’ve arrived at is he’s not happy in himself and is always trying to find validation in external things. His lack of effort has got nothing to do with us, and that realisation is very freeing. I no longer seek his approval, I just feel really sorry for him.

I expect you have already thought of this, but you need written evidence of his failure to contact them. You wanted to have a discussion, but you also need evidence. Something like sending him a message to say "You haven't spoken to the DC for X days now, please could you let me know when you are available for Face Time", then keep his reply, or a note that he didn't reply for X days.
You are going to need all this evidence.

For the five night visit coming up, there are two basic choices:

1. You go away, don't tell him, turn your phone off, then he has no choice but to keep them the full five nights, with no doubt help from his mum.
2. You stay available, and ready to take them back early. More evidence of his total inability to have them 50/50 for when it goes to court.

Either option is perfectly valid.

Agree with others, it isn't your responsibility to ensure he stays in contact, neither would I be reminding them of their dad's love when he isn't showing them that he loves them.
Agree with others, acknowledging that Dad is being a bit rubbish at keeping in touch and talking about how they feel is likely the best approach, it will allow them to explore their feelings, express sadness and validate that their experience is true. He is being shit!!

It's a real shame, but not unexpected! Hopefully if they can can work it through at this age it will help them as they get older and his behaviour likely deteriorates.

Absolutely this^

My father was a violent alcoholic who would fly into rages at us purely because he’d been drinking not because of anything we’d done. My mum would constantly try to play it down and tell us that he loved us dearly. It was just the drink turning him into somebody else. I remember at a very young age being furious with her. I fully understood the drink turned him into a monster, but I also knew that if he loved us the way she said he did then he wouldn’t have drank and put us in that danger. He would’ve sought help. I was fully aware that his need to drink was stronger than his love for us. It angered me and still does to this day that my mum with the best of intentions basically lied to us. I have had more than one problematic relationship because I have learnt to ignore the reality of the person in front of me and convince myself that ‘he did love me really’, when it was clear he really didn’t. Had I developed a sense of discernment those relationships would’ve ended before they began!

It’s an analogy OP. Your soon to be X has compartmentalised his life into the part when the children are with him he steps up, but when they’re not, they are out of sight out of mind. The fact that he doesn’t answer their calls indicates that maybe somebody else is there and he doesn’t want his time with that person or activity interfered within anyway. The children come second to whatever he is involved with that time. You really won’t be doing the children any favours by trying to smooth it over, although I totally get why you want to. You want your children to feel loved by their father. As PP have said you owe them the truth about the reality of the situation for their own mental health and confidence in the future. They need to be able to trust what they see in front of them is how it really is.

Agree with @leopardandspots . I tried not to speak badly about my ex to my DC, nor cover for him, but tried to stay factual and answer questions in an age appropriate way when necessary. If the answer was sometimes "I don't know", so be it.

I have taken on board everything you have all said and will be more open with them in future in terms of not telling them he’s busy or he can’t always answer the phone.

I’m really sorry you’ve all had awful experiences 😩

And please validate their feelings (obvs when they are correct) eg "yes it isn't fair", "yes that's really annoying" "yes that's not nice" and "this isn't a reflection on you, this is grown-ups behaving badly"

I’m curious, what his suggestion would be if just asked? What does he suggest is suitable contact in-between visits? What does this look like? How best to do or? Then it’ll be a case of see of he can then stick to what he suggests? 🤔

Absolutely this. You want to end up with a position where they frame his lack of interest as to do with his own internal inadequacies and nowt to do with them.

@mummy917

I agree with this 100%. Don't make excuses or reasons for Twatoo's behaviour. Just validate your DC's feelings.

As far as DS1 and a phone, I think it's not a bad idea that you monitor when he speaks to his dad AND that his dad knows that. I don't mean 'eavesdropping'. I just mean that you're now able to notice as soon as he's off the phone any change in DS's emotions or behaviour and attribute it to the right cause (his dad). You can then talk things through right away. If he should have his own phone you'll lose that.

Plus I think the last thing you need right now is that man dripping poison into DS's ears about your breakup and it think it's more likely to happen if Ex knows that he can speak with DS 'secretly'. Unless DS asks for a phone and you can talk to him about why he wants one 'now', I'd just keep on as you are.

I’ve always validated their feelings and will continue to do so. It is so hard knowing if what you’re doing is for the best, even though it’s always what you try to do regardless.

The difference is you are doing everything with their best interests in mind so you will come out with strong relationships with the kids in the end. Twatoo, not so much.

I say, trust your instincts and you won't go wrong. You know your DC better than anyone else in this world. And you are motivated by love for them and concern for their welfare. You're also managing to keep any 'emotions' about Twatoo out of your decisions for them. Your DC are going to be fine because they have you as their mum.

Its really hard to avoid the impulse to try and soothe when your children are distressed / confused by bad behaviour / lack of contact from another parent.

His refusal to facetime or to maintain regular contact with the kids will come back to haunt him when the kids are older and will refuse any contact with him because they remember the way he is behaving now.

He is the one sabotaging his future relationships with his children. The kids will quite rightly see you as their steady unmovable rock and the one parent they know they can rely on.

If he lets contact lapse and stops even pretending to do 50/50 then the consequences for that are all on him. You are doing amazing. Its ok to mourn the loss of relationship with the man you thought that he was but he is quickly proving that he is no loss to you or the kids. There wll be financial consequences for him in terms of cms payments and his kids wont want to know him when they are older.

As hard as it is dont feel you have to cover for him or make excuses for him when he lets the kids down.

I think it’s a really difficult line to tread.

On one hand I think it’s fair enough to be neutral and not cover for him, but I also think it’s important not to sound as if you’re being negative about him.

Much as he’s a shit husband - and by the sounds of things a shittty dad too - he’s the only dad your children have. As the years pass, they may be excited about things they do with him or the time they spend at his house. They need to be able to feel like they can talk about this openly without fear of upsetting you, or you disapproving.

Not suggesting for a second that’s what you would do; it’s been clear that you always centre your children in everything.

I’m a child of divorced parents and I can remember my mum and my nan being gleeful if I ever uttered a word of criticism about my time with dad. It felt really awkward to say that I’d had a nice time because I could see that isn’t what they wanted to hear. They never openly disapproved when I was positive but their joy at any negativity made me feel very stuck in the middle.

I’ve also seen this play out in recent years with SIL and her exDP. She slagged him off repeatedly to her DC, and so did her parents, and the poor kids were really stuck in the middle because they love their dad.

It’s really hard to get it right but I think factual honesty without dwelling on things is the right way to go.

My kids have the justalk kids app on their tablets so they can message or call their dad whenever they want. They never use it to call or message their dad. They do use it to help me find my phone when I’ve left it lying around the house though. And to send poo emojis to their friends.