Pinkpoet support thread (TW for SA)

[PinkPoetAgain1]

Just starting a new thread for those who are following/supporting

I’m all over the place mentally at the moment as I said in my last thread but I’m still listening xx

I know you’re not ready to, but I think it’s helpful to know where your head is at so I’m going to ask.

Do you see yourself EVER leaving? Because if not, this will just be happening on a loop the way it is now, forever and ever or until something terrible
happens. I just want to make sure you understand that, because it seems you’ve entered the ‘I don’t know what to do’ part of the cycle. When really, there is only one thing to do to stop all of this.

However, I know you’re not going to leave right now. I just thought I’d ask if it was actually something you can see yourself doing in future?

even though he’s not doing anything at the moment

What do you mean not doing anything - he has been groping you in your sleep.

He has never gone a week without sexually assaulting you. He does it all the time. You've tried saying no, you've tried performing willingness, you've tried ignoring him raping you by pretending to be asleep.

None of it makes a difference. You don't matter. He will just keep on and on and on. There's no let up. There are no good weeks. There are just bad weeks and less bad weeks.

I know that you find it difficult to see him as a physical abuser but surely you can see that he just doesn't like you. Surely that alone is enough to say, you know what, I don't want to spend my life with someone who doesn't like me.

Of course he could release it - rape is illegal and he does that all the time.

Why would you check his phone anyway? Is there anything you could possibly find that would make you leave him? Being abusive towards you, towards your children, nothing has been enough to make you leave so why check his phone? Assume there’s dodgy pics and videos on there, assume he’s shared them with other men, it may well be true, it might not - does it honestly hand on heart make any difference to you?

Please remember this is Poet’s real life.
It is easy for us to say ‘just leave’ but she has been trapped in this cage and conditioned for all of her adult life.
Right now, this thread is the only place where she can speak openly, even more so than in therapy.
Poet has come a long, long way since she started posting. It must be tough seeing the news and thinking that something similar might be happening in your own home, at the hands of your own husband.
When Gisele Pelicot was shown footage she denied it for many months. Her mind could not compute it.

I agree, she has never lived away from home - thats daunting at the best of times, but when you have been conditioned to believe that you need protecting, when you have been prevented until very recently of even understanding any of the every day things about finances, when you have had to account to someone else, to defer to them, for your shopping or purchasing, then its so hard to believe you can possibly survive.

This is why I wish you were able to talk to your parents, because we know that they have room for you, and we know that they love you, and we know that they would act as a protective buffer zone actually protecting you from him, and helping to enforce the clean break - the absence which will finally lift the blinkers off, whilst also being there to support her and allow her space to fall apart, if she must.

I suspect that like all bullies he is a coward and if the law or the family were in full knowledge of his actions, he would slink off. But she needs that protection around her to break his spell and to build herself while she is vulnerable, which is after she leaves. And thats where family will fight harder than anyone else, if they are a good and supportive family - which is sounds as if they are.

It is easy for us to say ‘just leave’ but she has been trapped in this cage and conditioned for all of her adult life.

Even cages have doors. The only thing keeping her there is herself. She wants to stay with him. Not once has she said she wants to leave.

Too harsh @WallaceinAnderland
This is supposed to be a support thread. Everybody knows in situations like this it takes time and many attempts to leave. Poet has come from a place of thinking she was in a normal marriage with a high sex drive husband to a realisation that he is a domineering bastard. From too scared to give her name to WA or use the term rape, to actively engaging with WA and pursuing therapy. It’s been a matter of months, this process could take years.

I agree, that was too harsh @WallaceinAnderland .

Try having a bit of empathy for Poet.

It's not too harsh, it's the reality of her life. Yes, leaving is hard. Not as hard as staying though. But the point is OP doesn't want to leave. Until she has that light bulb moment, she is happy staying and coping and kidding herself.

I don’t think @WallaceinAnderlandhas said anything that Poet herself hasn’t said. Poet admits she doesn’t want to leave him.

The fact of the matter is Poet has repeatedly stated ‘red lines’ that if he crossed she would leave, he has crossed them and she has not left. Eg physical violence (even though we have said SA and rape IS physical violence) he then poked her hard in the chest and the side of the head.
We all know how complex this situation is and how it does take time but Poet herself has admitted she doesn’t want to leave. So I think it’s quite unfair to Wallace to say their post was too harsh when it’s simply fact.

Wallace hasn't said anything that isn't true. Poet has said many times over many threads that she does not want to leave him. She has always been adamant about that.

The crucial point is that Poet isn’t ready to leave yet. This is a support thread to hopefully coach her to that place. She’s taken many points on board on what must be a difficult place to keep coming back to. I’m not sure I’d have the strength of character to keep doing that. I think it demonstrates how isolated Poet is. A horrendous place to be. Earlier today Poet said she was spiralling and in that context, I think the comment is out of place.

I agree, but equally, her therapist is the person who has to listen and be gentle with their responses, not MN posters. This thread is definitely a good sounding board for her, but I don't think everyone placating her for fear of coming across too harsh is good for her or her children.

I know from experience that it's not that easy to 'just leave', but I believe it's some of the 'stronger' replies to her various threads that have helped her realise what's actually festering within her family.

I think having met this man so young and been so manipulated, even though Poet is an adult woman with kids, she’s stuck in an almost childlike dependence on this man.
If you ask a child who is being abused by their parent if they would like to
leave, they say no because they have comprehension of how it would work. How they’d survive. Who’d tell them what to do. Who would make the rules.
It is a deep and damaging long term manipulation where Poet was abused in her teens by an older man trained in manipulation and abuse. Not only was he trained in it, he grew up watching his father doing the same to his mother.
Poet can see other relationships - her parents sound pretty decent.
But up until recently she genuinely thought all of these behaviours were normal - rape, other abuses, financial abuse, scaring the children, controlling her spending, it was all just what men did.
I think she’s brave to keep coming back and although some comments may feel harsh, she does read and consider them.
I don’t think she genuinely feels she could live without him, and even if she tried, he would follow her and possibly harm her and the children further.
I am no expert on trauma bonding but it’s clear it is at play here. She sees the sex they have when she has been sobbing as him showing love. He absolutely enjoys her suffering and it’s another avenue to exploit her.
It is the most disturbing thread I’ve ever seen on here. I think he’s a dangerous man and he could inflict serious physical harm.
Like other posters, I think Poet’s parents are the key option. They would believe her, and take her in, in a heartbeat.

I know some of us can put things more bluntly than others, but I think that’s to do with the cycle we are all in now. Pink reveals updates or new info about the past, and we all set about arguing that, yes, it really is that bad because Pink can’t fully accept that it is.

While Pink acknowledges some things are not ok, she can’t (or at least can’t yet) accept the bigger picture that these aren’t just isolated bad events, and that beneath the charm and good looks, her husband is an abusive rapist, and that she is in an abusive relationship. I suppose no wonder, as how do you come to that realisation and still want to stay.

The downside to this state of denial is that each new ‘bad’ thing is triggering rather than entirely predictable, and that Pink can go from happy times to panic and not fully understand why. She comes here for relief from the symptoms, the anxious episodes, but the cause is effectively off limits. It’s a very sad situation and I can only hope that time and therapy help with this, and that we are helping in some way too.

Poet, its the school holidays soon - how is that looking to you? Do you have a 'family holiday' booked, or are you working and juggling childcare? Are your little ones all at nursery - I am aware one is at school - so is your mum doing some of the days with your eldest?

Can you go and stay with your parents for a week perhaps? just to spend time some quality time with them.

The offer I made previously still stands btw.

I agree Poet isn't ready YET to leave him.

But that's NOT the same as "never leaving" and the huge strides Poet has made towards recognising the abuse, and towards leaving are to be encouraged,not dismissed.

Continually talking her efforts down , because she hasn't yet left him, isn't very helpful or empathetic.

That's what I meant, and I stand by what I said.

It actually isn't the responsibility or purpose of the thread for us to coach Poet to support her to leave or not leave. That's a wildly irresponsible take. And in fact, I continue to believe this push/pull pattern mentioned by other commenters is not helpful.

Currently OP comes on and shares the latest awful thing her husband has done to her or a recollection from an awful thing he did in the past. Commenters (including me previously!) set about reassuring her that this is NOT normal and listing why. OP says well it can't be that bad though, he's not a bad guy, he's a loveable rogue or a typical mean etc. Commenters again respond with the (true!) facts that this is not loveable rogue or normal male behaviour. OP insists that all men would act like this before eventually engaging and agreeing that this isn't okay.

Then there is a moment of reckoning where she is re-traumtised by the fact that the story he and therefore she, has told herself, isn't true. Commenters then talk about practical steps to take- sometimes she does this and sometimes she doesn't. And then the cycle turns and she finds it easier for her own mental health to go hack into the bubble, to talk about how much she likes and enjoys sex with him, that's he's a great father or a great partner and she wouldn't be where she is without him and almost becomes upset with this thead and says it is making her more unhappy or more stressed. Likely because it forces her to face reality and that is extremely painful.

Ultimately none of this cycle is coaching anyone to do anything. In fact, what would probably be actually helpful is to direct everything back to OP. Does she think this is right? Does this make her feel good? Would she want her younger self to be treated like this?

I think OP should use this thread to vent and to reflect and instead of posters spending a lot of time giving examples of why things are/aren't okay we should be asking OP if it's okay to her. I think when that's happened, it has been truly useful and transformational for Poet. And having a sort of online journal to track what's happening is also helpful for her I think in recognising patterns.

Poet, reading the news isn't helping right now, so maybe it would help to tune it out if you can? It would make me feel worse, too and even less able to do anything.

As for

"I'm spiralling although he's not doing anything"

Right away, to me it seems like there's a whole lot of hurt, despair and hopelessness in that statement.

When I break that down it's you are feeling out of control, maybe hopeless. What matters is you're in pain.

But this is Poet speaking, and she can't have her feelings be valid on their own, can she? So there has to be a conditional clause, and it's "although he isn't doing anything".

That's worth breaking down even more.

For one, you immediately rendered your feelings invalid there. It bears repeating that this is okay, it's what you do because you've probably always done it and habits are hard to break.

Secondly, you seem to feel bad for having them in the first place, and possibly guilt for not feeling good because he's "not doing anything".

I'm going to take a guess and say that is probably not true, it's just how you've come to think about the relationship because it would be unbearable otherwise - so the "good parts" must outweigh the "bad parts".

But this is not thinking holistically, this is you compartmentalizing. That, and detachment/numbness is what disassociation is. This is what you have to do so you don't lose your mind.

So while you may think you owe him feeling good and rewarding him when he "behaves", and feel even worse as a result because you can't although you should, you're not a robot that can switch modes at the press of a button any more than he stops being an abuser* when the act of the assault stops.

A holistic view of relationships would demand that you feel safe in your relationship all the time, no exceptions. Our partners are supposed to enhance our life and we, theirs while not making us depend on their judgment.

Conversely, the assaults or remarks are not isolated incidents, they're part of a cycle that carries over into the "good times" which, I am deeply sorry to say this, prime you for getting abused again.

So to translate, no, it's not that you're "acting up"/"being dramatic"/"being weak/ungrateful" although he is being so "nice"/"helpful"/"calm"/"non-threatening"/"caring", not at all.

It's because you have started letting your feeling surface, stopped repressing them, and they are expanding into places where they are really not welcome - when you are supposed to perform to make him happy. Because maybe you hope that if he's happy, he won't do it again even if he's stressed from work.

I hope you have since started feeling better again. I am sorry for writing this, but I couldn't leave that statement just standing there. Again, it's not at all "wrong" to feel like that, much less unusual, but I feel like examining it critically reveals a lot that needs reframing.

*I know you don't want to think about him this way, you may replace that with "leaves you hurting" which would account for the fact that trauma lingers and twists and turns like a living thing, which it is.

How are things @PinkPoetAgain1 ?

Hope you are as a safe as can be @ThisIsPinkPoet

I don’t have much time to write a reply at the moment. I’m being careful as he’s here all the time this week and seems to be checking up on me. Demanding a lot of reassurance and physical affection. This has increased. We’re also away with friends at the weekend so building up to that.

Things have been up and down in regards to his mood but I’m ok x

Demanding physical affection, do you feel that you can’t just say no, why you capitulate so much. I had so little energy for sex when I had v small children. Is it that you don’t feel like you can? Id lie, say I’d been to the doctor and I have a polyp or something and no sex for 6 weeks, you need a break!

Im just sad for you poet x especially in this heat. I’m sleeping in a separate bed at the moment it’s so hot!