Warning for younger mums about finances and career sacrifice in divorce

[DoctorMumDivorcee]

Getting divorced after 26 years. I gave up my career as a surgeon to raise the children and support my husband in his career. He earns four times my salary and can work remotely from anywhere. We have worked hard and built up businesses and renovated properties and made a significant amount doing this. He was always in charge of finances, completed self assessment tax forms for me, took my payslips, did household bills while I did kids renovated homes and kept my hand in working as a part time GP. I am 54 and have 13 years before I can start to receive our pension. I had expected the court to ask him to pay me some maintenance but he cleverly resigned from his job just as we decided to divorce so it now looks like I earn more than him. He has also spent a fortune in a very expensive lawyer and travelling the world with his new girlfriend. The court will not give this back to me as ‘add back’ and say the money has gone. I am posting because I want all you younger mums to be aware that if you give up a career you will not be supported. You might get child maintenance until youngest is 18 but spousal maintenance is much harder to get. Please don’t give financial control to your husbands. You must try to understand it and you can. I am understanding but now and realising what terrible investments my husband has made over the years - he always said I was useless and spent to much. Turns out it was the other way around!!

I had some awful comments from my SIL when we had babies a year apart, I carried on working and she stayed home to look after baby, I was cruel, I was selfish. Well, fast forward 18yrs, I own my own home outright, I bought her brother out of the house, she lives with her parents, in her old bedroom. Pretty much sums it up.

If you work or if you’re a sahm, protect yourself!

I’m not sure I understand. You are a fully qualified surgeon? Really? You’re FRCS? It’s very very unusual to leave that. It’s also much much easier to work part time once you’ve fellowed.

Also don’t understand what you mean about employability, I thought you said you re-trained as a GP?

I would not have thought anyone with two fellowships has given up their career or can’t find work.

That is a good warning.

I am not married and gave up my career to raise our kids. He refused to marry me.

However, I was the one that had a property when we met. He had no property and lots of debts despite earning 5 times as much as me. 15 year's on, his debt has barely reduced.

Once we'd had kids, if I mentioned I had an increase in money or spare money, he'd quickly allocate that money and make me pay for more things while keeping his money. Refused joint accounts too.

I've had the last laugh though as I sold my property with a small profit but he thinks I've got none of that left. He says I'm terrible with money.

I quickly learnt never to disclose anything about my finances to him. He has no idea that I earn about two thirds of what he does now. He still thinks I can barely afford a thing so now pays for almost everything.

I am just biding my time until I can get me and my twins out. It's been no way to live.

Counting my blessings he didn't want to get married...his debt is his and my savings are mine. I'm currently front loading my pension.

I never wanted it to be like this but my behaviour now is due to years of financial abuse on his part. He never supported me when I was on maternity leave, he still expected me to pay 50% of everything out of my maternity pay which had halved from my normal wages. I had to pay for childcare leaving me with £150/month after paying for that. There was no point in me working ft. He made sure that once I'd had the kids, it was never a partnership.

What reason did he give for quitting? Was he claiming benefits? Didn’t he have to show he was actively seeking work of a similar income? How do the courts not see through this when it’s so blatantly tactical? And the fact he got a job straight after should illicit an investigation and reassessment surely?

I was a SAHM for several years due to necessity, and I’m glad I had those years with them. The one thing I regret is not making DH pay into a pension for me. He always said that his pension was our pension and not to worry, but now he’s reached retirement age I have no say whatsoever in it, he is choosing how to handle it and I don’t agree with what he’s doing.

Good advice. Sadly a lot of marriages are based on what the bride (or groom) look and act like at the time of the wedding. A man utterly devoted to a lovely young woman who only has eyes for him and his needs will rapidly fall out of love with an older, more experienced woman who has prioritised having and raising his children and whose body shows the signs of this.

On to the newer model he hasn’t already ruined I’m afraid.

Never take anyone’s love for granted and assume it will last a lifetime.

Such a good thread OP, am in a not dissimilar position to you, and wish I had read a post like this the day I downsized my career - would have made a different decision!

The amount of people that don't acknowledge that OP has continued to work PT as a relatively well paid GP and renovated properties on the side is ridiculous. OP really hasn't been a SAHP at all. She has probably earned well above the national average salary throughout the decades if you combine the earnings from both of these income streams.

IMO this is the biggest lie fed to women. That continuing a career makes you financially independent when in reality most people can't afford their current lifestyles alone, especially if they have children. There's nothing wrong with this. What's the point in being in a partnership with another person and then shrinking your lifestyle and making huge sacrifices to the live you lead so that "if* it ends up in divorce you won't need to change anything? Ideally a marriage should work so that you are both dependent on each other in some ways to really take advantage of being a partnership and to function well as a family unit but both could cope adequately if the other was removed from the equation. It is also a grave error to trust either person to.manage the finances entirely and make all the financial decisions. Control should be 50:50 and many often believe that working gives them more control which can be the case, but as OP shows, sometimes it is more complicated than that.

On the other hand, I work full time and have a better pension than my DH. If we were ever to divorce, he'd financially benefit from that. We also have the house we have as my dad gave us a 40 percent deposit, that we didn't financially ring fence.

I didn’t even think spousal maintenance was even a thing these days except for in exceptional circumstances. I just assumed any assets you have at the time of divorce are split 50/50 then that’s it, a clean break for both parties. Maybe a case for a claim for fair share of assets that had been squandered by 1 party since the separation. Obviously potentially child maintenance while children under 18 if relevant too but can’t understand why anyone would expect a guaranteed income from their ex?? No less expect their ex to be obliged to remain in their job to fund such an stipend, sounds bizarre to me

Find this thread really bizarre, saying that as a part time working mother with a higher earning DH myself, I would expect our house, any savings or other assets we have to be evenly split but surely the ex completely free to decide whether he wants to work or do anything else he pleases once they’re divorced?? Seems crazy anyone morally/legally obliged to remain a wage slave just because they’d been married

I wish somebody would get this printed on a T-shirt
I see you all the time on social media young women painting house choosing duvet covers buying candles and the only thing I can think is I hope whatever money you’re getting. It’s going into your bank account not our bank account.
Because when it comes you’re gonna be faced with either a misogynistic prick of a male judge or a misogynistic prick of a female judge
Female judges don’t get to be female judges without playing the game and having quite an ingrained narrative that they’ve been following all their lives
You may well get the children. I’ve never seen a case really where women don’t get the children. What you won’t get is the money to raise them.
And all the money you spent on candles and holidays and food shopping count for shit
He gets the assets

He’s depleted all of the assets on purpose.
You would expect to get half but women rarely do
And then they’re half isn’t enough to go on and rebuild from
Whereas his earning potential has never been affected, so it’s business as usual

I agree, these boundaries need to be set, why on earth is a woman even with a man who has her use her savings to cover maternity leave, surely if not joint finances you would just ask him to pay the equivalent he’d be contributing to childcare if he’s not physically providing it e.g 2.5 days a week worth of nursery fees etc. In our marriage all finances joint so that wouldn’t even be a thing. Same with contributions towards bills, if using time to care for your children that he is using to work then need to insist this is taken into account. If he doesn’t agree then need to make a decision as to whether you want to remain with him. If you’re not married need to realise the consequences of this too

I agree that she should receive half of the assets they had at the time of the separation so if he’s already squandered his half the she should receive anything left remaining. He would have been totally wrong to squander her half and if there is a legal claim she can put in for this then all the best for her. It’s unfair if the law doesn’t help in this situation, completely agree. However I don’t see how a person can have an independent claim on their ex’s earning potential or why any woman would think that sacrificing her own career development would be made up for in the case of divorce. I chose to invest in my career to the level I have but then have made a conscious decision to plateau while focus on family. I would have done the same whether I’d been married or a single parent. My DH is a higher earner but would have equally supported me building my career further by agreeing to pay for more childcare, cleaner etc. I wouldn’t have wanted to do his job, his hours and not have time with the children so can’t see in what life I’d of been earning the same as him anyway. Women need to be clear about what they actually want, we spent a good period of time paying the equivalent of my entire salary in childcare costs, better than saying ‘I lost my career and wasn’t able to work’ because of childcare costs’ as many do when actually what they mean is that at the time they made a conscious decision as a couple to give up their career as the financial benefit wasn’t high enough. I only work part time now and part of that is due to childcare costs but again that is a conscious decision based on our preferences.

Totally the case if not married, been there and done that but if married then that isn’t usually the case

Because it’s to make up for the fact that he’s squandered the assets she can’t have half of what she no longer has cause he spent it
That’s the issue
My ex did exactly the same. He bought our house for £230,000 and to make sure that I got nothing out of it. He sold it for £230,000 and then spent the equity.
Some people are truly disgusting, and there should be the facility to make him get a job and make him repay her
But there isn’t

@Springleaves26 is you giving up work actually based on our preferences though?
Generally I find my 30 years of parenting and knowing parents that the person who’s life improves the most is the one that gets to walk out the door to spend eight hours at work every day without so much as a backward glance.

The stay at home partner is usually royally Rogered from all sides
But especially when it comes to divorce
The years of sacrifice count for shit
It’s important that people realise that

The op still has earning capacity! At 53 she’s been a surgeon and a GP! Not quite sure how as they are separate qualifications that take years! So she’s got work pensions and can certainly get work as a GP! So she’s got 12 years to earn well and boost her incredibly generous GP pension.

She was never going to get spousal maintenance on the basis she has good earning potential. Why an intelligent woman handed over all fiscal control is beyond me. I do assume there are marital assets and looking after dc is considered work. I’m not sure many modern women would do this - I did but I knew what money DH was making and what our investments were doing! They were in joint names too.

Your warning is a good one and should be heeded, although I am a bit puzzled by your ‘gave up my career’ narrative: as a part-time GP you have one of the best-paid part-time jobs around! A family member of mine has this role and it fits brilliantly around family life. Yes, it’s a stressful job but they can do a morning clinic, a visit or two and then be at the school gate without anything further to worry about. Other part-time workers are needing to balance the school run with still trying to be at their desk and make up time in the evening etc.

My own advice to any young woman is increase your resilience to life’s challenges by limiting your family size. Once you have three or more children it becomes hugely more complicated to house, care and provide for them as a single woman. Whereas a mother of one or two children can easily accommodate them in a two-bed flat or house.

I also believe that children should be able to sue absent parents for unpaid maintenance when they turn eighteen.

I am in a very long marriage which has had huge peaks and troughs so I worried a lot about this for a long time. In the end I had to decide to give up worrying about it, because any actions I can take would have negligible impact on our balance of earnings (DH is a high earner). If it happens, it happens and I can always move to a much cheaper part of the country. But I am very much an outlier in the grand scheme of things so this is not really applicable to others.

Support to any woman going through separation and divorce.

I think in some countries e.g. with no maternity leave, childcare provision or welfare state then there is next to no choice in the matter. However it’s more complex in the UK, as a mother myself and someone who was badly burnt myself in a previous relationship and left with nothing materially (and certainly no appreciation, in fact told I should of been grateful for a roof over my head during that time!) following years being the one doing 99% of the childcare and housework, I’d say the decision is primarily driven by women wanting to do what feels like the best for their family at the time, whether they are enjoying the role or not. From life since as a single mother and now in a happy marriage, own house etc I would say women need to be more assertive about what they actually want and what is fair. Much of the unpaid labour mothers do is so undervalued by society that many men (and women) have no awareness of it let alone acknowledgement of it. E.g I work part time and even colleagues (with older children) think I must live the life of Riley, not sure whether their children were much easier when little or they had more help 🤷🏻‍♀️ thankfully in this country I do feel the law and government policy is generally on our side. E.g you can leave a partner who completely refuses to be fair but then I do think also some people have completely unrealistic expectations of what the welfare state should provide, obviously you’re not going to have the same lifestyle as might of had at the time with higher earning partner. Neither are you guaranteed a lifetime at certain standard of living just because you had it at the time you gave birth to your first child with your husband, it’s unfair to expect anyone to maintain that

I see people on here who are SAHMs and say they are a team and although he earns the money, he knows he couldn't do his time consuming, international travelling job without her.

Well yes, yes he can. On divorce even if he pays child maintenance, the legal minimum is 20% of his gross salary AFTER pension contributions. And that's for 3 or more children, assuming he never has them overnight. You can agree more in court, but court judgements can be overturned after a year.

That's very cheap for the 24/7 childcare the woman is providing. I'm willing to bet men who live with their children spend a lot more than 20% of their income on them. Mothers certainly do.

My ex is a high earner and people think I was "lucky" to get a few hundred a month CM from him because some women get nothing. But that amount still leaves him with about 4k a month to spend on himself as a single man. He's done very well out of me.

Very well said. With all the will in the world, OP would have needed to be and conniving as this man to get a better outcome. It's just terrible this is happening to her.

unfair if he’s not having shared care? I don’t think in general non resident fathers who are doing shared care are much better off by the time they’ve paid rent/mortgage on a suitable house with a room for their children, bills, their own living expenses and maintenance. In most cases it’s disingenuous to say 24/7 care of children at school/funded childcare and he’s having them for 2 nights a week as in any relationship would be far for you to have 3.5 days 24//7 responsibility plus the resident parent often entitled to top ups as well. I’m saying this as someone who had been the single parent with care of a baby 24/7 and no shared care so yes can sometimes not be the case

I was in a training scheme to be an obstetrician and gynaecologist. I had completed my degree and had done 4 years of post graduate training. By then I was doing c sections laparoscopies hysteroscopies colposcopy etc. At 27 I became pregnant with our first child and my husband and I made the decision that his career would become the primary career and I would become the primary carer for our family. Continuing on the scheme would not have been viable without a full time nanny and we felt that we did not want that. I resigned from the training post and joined a GP training scheme part time. I completed this scheme just before our third child was born. I was 33 by then. I then worked very part time as a GP. My husband was working away a lot and my family were miles away. It was pretty stressful tbh. I developed breast cancer at 35 had a double mastectomy and 6 months of chemo. I completely agree with everyone who has said I was foolish to let my husband run the finances. We were busy, it was his forte, it was slow boiled frog and he did not like me giving my opinion. I should never have agreed to give up my NHS pension. All easy to say now in hindsight. I absolutely have an earning potential now and I am so grateful that I do but it is a lot less than his and that’s because I changed my career all those years ago. I hope that gives a bit more clarity.