Warning for younger mums about finances and career sacrifice in divorce

[DoctorMumDivorcee]

Getting divorced after 26 years. I gave up my career as a surgeon to raise the children and support my husband in his career. He earns four times my salary and can work remotely from anywhere. We have worked hard and built up businesses and renovated properties and made a significant amount doing this. He was always in charge of finances, completed self assessment tax forms for me, took my payslips, did household bills while I did kids renovated homes and kept my hand in working as a part time GP. I am 54 and have 13 years before I can start to receive our pension. I had expected the court to ask him to pay me some maintenance but he cleverly resigned from his job just as we decided to divorce so it now looks like I earn more than him. He has also spent a fortune in a very expensive lawyer and travelling the world with his new girlfriend. The court will not give this back to me as ‘add back’ and say the money has gone. I am posting because I want all you younger mums to be aware that if you give up a career you will not be supported. You might get child maintenance until youngest is 18 but spousal maintenance is much harder to get. Please don’t give financial control to your husbands. You must try to understand it and you can. I am understanding but now and realising what terrible investments my husband has made over the years - he always said I was useless and spent to much. Turns out it was the other way around!!

The court system has not caught up with reality. Yes they recognise that work in the home equates to paid work outside the home and so don’t penalise women for being stay at home carers whilst dc are dependent. So pensions and other equity are fairly split. But there is a cliff edge for UC and maintenance where an ‘adult’ child living at home receives no state support or support from the non resident parent. DC are not financially independent at 18 but the court pretends they are to the detriment of the resident parent. Usually female. I have disabled adult children of the marriage that the court considers to be my sole financial responsibility despite ex being a high rate tax payer and my reliance on CA and share of pension as over normal pension age. No maintenance due. He gets to live his best life with no dependants. If we were still married he would have to support his dependant adult children at least the one at uni due to reduced access to loan.

Nobody gets married thinking they’re going to get divorced.

This is generally true in England & Wales as well - but if own a property and the other person moves in and it becomes the “family” home it could be classed as a matrimonial asset during divorce , and divorce laws are not gendered - so this goes both ways and a court / judge could well have a say in it

Don’t be too hard on women for making the choices they do. They do so in the context of a secure relationship with limited choices. When my son’s specialist placement broke down and couldn’t be repaired one parent had to be home with him. I earned less so it turned out to be me. This was a rational decision in the circumstances of a parenting team. The problem is that there is no penalty for later leaving the team.

Divorce isn't the only risk though. Even if your love goggles are firmly on, things like ill health and redundancy are something everyone should consider

We have always ensured we could pay mortgage and bills on the lowest of our two incomes

Yup. I'm in my mid-40s and am starting to see friends' marriages end, and the husbands are almost all behaving appallingly. Quitting their jobs to go self-employed, pay themselves minimum wage. Going part-time to reduce their income. Living with their new partner, who does all the childcare while they play golf. One has actually left the country and is completely uncontactable. Spousal maintenance isn't a thing unless you're uber-rich, you will need to get a job to support yourself and your children.

My friend who fared best had her own business, and enough savings in her own name to buy her husband out of the house.

They should seriously consider the possibility.

to be honest OP it’s not significantly better if you are the higher earner that didn’t give up your career. I’m a shade younger than you. Work full time in a demanding career and have been careful to put money away for my pension and have really paid all our household expenses. For reasons I won’t go into my husband has cost me £100’k’s due to his stupidity and recklessness and because I didn’t want to risk losing my house (which was a real
possibility) I had to bail him out. In spite of infidelity and general terrible behaviour. So here I am. Can’t afford to leave even though on paper I have done all the right things. I don’t recommend marriage for independent women. It’s taken a long time for me to realise that I have been financially abused. In my husbands case I don’t think he actually meant to but unless you are both completely equally on the same page and splitting investments down the middle right from the start this is the outcome. When you are 30 you think this will never happen to you. By the time you are 50 at the very least it will have happened to lots of women you know well and may have happened to you too.

Yes. It's why I won't pay anyone in cash now. I know too many women whose ex husbands should, based on CMS calculations, be on the breadline now but still manage to live a good life thanks to making sure they are paid cash for a sizeable chunk of their work

And there's the other men who suddenly develop an urge to go back to study when they split up

Or the men who swiftly move on to a new partner and decide to become the stay at home dad to the new kids so they have £0 income (and their deluded new partner thinks they just have the most wonderful husband)

You get to a certain age and you've seen it all play out

I guess a better option where possible is for each parent to go part time, ideally doing compressed hours to ensure loss of earnings is minimised . But I know not everyone feels able to insist on that

Can I also add that for anybody who receives Universal credit will take spousal maintenance off £1 for £1 so sometimes it’s better to try get more equity

Now that I’ve read this I will be doing the same .

I was about to post similar.

It just runs salt into the wounds.Inevitably they end the marriage to go off with someone younger and seemingly spend lots of time on holiday.
Luckily of my friends, most kept their careers or married "beneath" them and have fared ok.

One had a DH who cheated, went off with a younger woman but sadly died before the divorce ( where he was absolutely shaftjng her and 3 kids) went through. Said friend has the entire estate, looks fabulous and is living her best life. I'm not sure this is a common scenario though!

This goes both ways, a couple I know- the wife has had an affair and moved out into her new boyfriends house, effectively leaving the husband as the single parent now,

You're not in the real world. This week 3 boys were allowed to walk free after violently raping and videoing their attack on 2 girls.

And you think the courts/legal system are going to make men take proper financial responsibility for their families? The likelihood of that is way beyond the exosphere. The system is designed to benefit men.

The OP works part-time. She has a job.
She's rueing the fact that she's spent years building a business with a thief who has carefully orchestrated the finances in such a way that it appears she earns more than him, on her part-time income.
In doing so, he's robbed her of a proper divorce settlement.

Thank you for the warning!! Being a surgeon is such an accomplishment , but I’m sure raising your beautiful children into wonderful adults is just as (probably more) rewarding.

I think I read somewhere that less of 10% of women in the UK are housewives now anyway BUT it doesn’t mean that ALL men are like that. I’ve always wanted to be a Mum and a housewife (I’m sorry if that sounds less than ambitious ) - I did go to university and did a masters so I had ‘something’ but I still just ended up as an EA at a hedge fund for the money so I don’t feel like I have a career as such to give up so being a housewife is much more appeasing to me.

I feel like most modern day men don’t actually expect their wife to give up their careers now anyway… definitely not in the same way as 70/ 80s / 90s… most of my friends husbands / boyfriends actually WANT their wives to go back to work due to cost of living etc. My husband thankfully gave me a choice and I’ve currently chosen to be a housewife (granted we only have a 4 month old baby so I’m not that far into it)… it’s hard work and I’m sure will get harder. Of course - things in 20 years or even 10 years time might be different but I don’t think housewives should go in with the mindset that their husbands might cheat or screw them over financially in the future. Of course I’m always aware that’s a possibility - everyone is capable of everything BUT I don’t think it’s good for anyone’s anxiety if they’re always thinking in the future their husband might screw then over.

Bur your warning is very useful - my MIL partner quit his high paying job to cut off his ex wife during the divorce settlement. He always shops at lidl and when i asked why he said it was to suggest he didn’t have a lot of money so couldn’t pay her or something along those lines. He will say that he didn’t want to be paying for her new boyfriend but I think it’s BS as both his grown up children don’t want anything to do with him. He will say his ex wife has brain washed them…. I’m not sure why my MIL is with him but luckily for her she will never ever quit her job so won’t end up like the ex

Exactly this and it’s healthy to go into marriage with a positive outlook… men were still the same back in the 70s and 80s. There were more housewives… I’m not sure about divorce rate but I’m sure some men did the dirty back then too.

.Always confused me about this.We all know that the divorce rates for people married in the fifties and sixties were the highest that they have ever been.And this was when the stay at home.Wife was at its peak.Divorces have begin to fall because there's now more marriages between people that are equal.You generally have marriages now between two working professionals and most young men that I know and men of my age around thirty, they would not marry a woman who had who had no career to speak of and could not contribute?

And they tend to do their part also of the people.I know in their fortiest get divorced.I don't know anyone where the man hasn't got fifty fifty care.The thing is, there's a bit of dishonesty here about what the past was because it used to be.The stay at home model.And if that worked, why did so, many of that generation get Divorced. And where do people think those statistics about women falling into poverty?After divorce, come from, there's something about this.That is it's not genuine. I also think that people are missing the point. If you've been a stay at home mum, then your husband has been supporting you because you have had no way to support yourself. He has been working, and he has been contributing that you can't just disregard the fact that you live in a house. And you eat food. These are basic things that he is definitely providing. And to completely disregard that it doesn't make sense People also should not expect to be supported. I think after a relationship is ended, but I do think that financial literacy is vital, but my sincere belief. Is it's not the responsibility of your husband to make sure that your financially literate? That was the responsibility of your parents. If you really have no knowledge of how finances work as an adult. You need to look at them. And you need to look at yourself. Your husband married an adult. Why should he be? The person who is solely responsible for your financial future. It just doesn't make any sense, and it's kind of really worrying that people had this mindset. Especially when they should have seen all around them.The effects of divorce on women that weren't working.Half of me thinks that this is like the where people read stories about divorce, and they read the woman walked away with everything.How often does that happen?Very rarely.I think op is right, and I think it's a solid advice

I agree. I will not be advising my children to marry. But to keep their financial independence.

People get married thinking it’s a romantic contract but it’s a financial one.

I have more assets and pension and a higher income. Despite not being wealthy or a high earner. Always thought our financial
state was equal but turns out I was wrong 😑 . I’d be screwed in a divorce.

Thanks for the warning.

I was forced to be independent when I ended up with my daughter in my 20s and her dad just never grew up. I thought I was worst off as I became a single mum but 15 year later I have my own assets and climbed up the career ladder. Life isn’t perfect, but in these 15 years, I would say half of my friends have divorced or split up from their partners - and I didn’t realise how much they were struggling within those relationships.

I think as women we really need to normalise talking about financial abuse. Because this is happening too often behind closed doors. I have friends that stopped working, 10 years later, now that the kids are grown they don’t know how to get back into the job market. I have friends who had a great set up at the beginning, but over years the man ends up controlling finances and they have to beg for essentials! Some friends have had decent enough partners - one has been left with the house , but now she needs to find a better job to maintain it - which has meant going back to school and retraining.

It’s hard having to start again - and the man, who didn’t have a career break, can just continue as if nothing happened.

It is just shocking. We are sold the fairy tale of marriage - I want to say that many relationships do work out. But as a woman you have to have as strong of a financial plan as your husband.

It’s healthy to have a positive outlook but it’s foolish not to be aware that it might not work out.

Hope for the best but plan for the worst.

Essentially the key for women is always be able to support yourself

Yeah let’s all just give up then…

That particular case is under review due to the social media backlash and push by normal people (men and women). Even Mumsnet were involved with a petition. Are you saying there’s no point due to the system benefiting men?

Men used to be held accountable to a far greater extent than they do now due to state intervention and women now having earning potential. Don’t get me wrong, it wasn’t perfect in the past but was it better?

One example I have for this is the women who are using their savings to cover maternity leave. Why is it their savings? Why hasn’t the bloke been expected to top up those savings or also save to have a child. Why should she lose money from being on maternity leave whilst he has leftover salary in most cases?

Another example I have is a part time worker (usually the woman but I’ve actually met quite a lot of part time dads recently) expected to contribute the same amount financially as the full time worker when they’re also doing childcare around their job?

I believe that as women we should be setting these boundaries before even attempting to conceive and protecting ourselves as much as financially possible before leaving the workplace for the early years. The automatic answer for a lot of us isn’t just stick them in childcare and work full time. It doesn’t take into account a woman’s choice or the families circumstances.

We have to keep fighting for accountability form men or we stop procreating with them. You don’t have to have children and put yourself in that position. I’ve chosen to, I accept the risk and let the chips fall where they may.

Huge difference here is that OP continued to be financially ignorant when her kids had already entered school and are now grown even though she has a very good job, good pension options and is extremely skilled. This isn’t a case of a SAHM with small kids being left, her ex is a dick but she’s had many years with the kids being grown to expand her work and has a fantastic career to fall back on at the age of 54. She’s said she’s just too tired to do so and wants alimony even with no kids at home if I’m understanding correctly. Hugely different circumstances to being left with kids requiring care and having to juggle that with work.

More fool the woman who is convinced, with no shadow of a doubt, that her marriage will be for life.
This is something one can simply never know.
Always have a solid back-up plan.