Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ ND: support thread 18

[Bluebellforest1]

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, some have ND children. It is a support thread and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations and try to keep it specific to you and your partner.

these threads have been going about 10 years now and have been a lifeline of support for many of us.

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5447569-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-17?latest=1

I initially asked him to move out for the 3 months of my treatment timeline and I honestly believe he took that literally and assumes he will just slot back in when "this is all over".

😢
it wouldn’t surprise me either.

Sending you so much love @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy 💐 I do hope you have an easier time during treatment, it sounds so hard. I’m sorry your DH has been so useless at providing support to you and your kids.

Pps asked what I meant upthread and I’m not sure 😂 I guess I gain emotional intimacy from sharing, relying on each other, taking an interest in each others’ things. In a ‘parallel lives’ situation probably only the latter remains? Or are there other ways?

DH is not in a great place and seems to be slipping into a deeper depression. It’s hard as he is so miserable to be around. I helped him book a Drs appointment and he promises to talk to his therapist.

hugs to all

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy everything crossed for your scan. I’m glad you have your kids with you. It’s just such a pity their father is so oblivious to the damage he is causing everyone. I agree with you that he likely thinks he can just move back in when you’re done. Hugs.

My psychiatrist suggested i get a dog to help my kids understand that the dog's response of being happy to see them when they come in the door and excited is the normal response. You have my sympathy and empathy. Been there too with the 'carrying on' thing and now my kids do it too. No beginnings and no endings. So I've had to teach them. Now they're so much better. But it's heart breaking to see just how much they absorb without you realising... all this modelling we do, imprinting them with romantic models that they then go out into relationships and think this is 'normal' behaviour.

Oldest DC (not very cuddly) did allow us to hug them this morning as it's their 18th birthday, so that was nice.

Are our Autistic partners suffering equally in the relationship? Are they as sad and anxious as we often are? Sometimes I think my partner is very frustrated that we don’t operate the way he does, like why am I so awkward and irrational. I would say though that the feelings he has only ever comes at the annoyance of others. He doesn’t feel bad about himself at all or the way he handles anything. I often feel like I’ve handled things with the kids badly and feel ashamed at myself. In a way it must be nice to not feel shame. He will stand and get annoyed with me getting stressed with the kids but he won’t intervene, he sees the issue as a “me and the kids problem” as in he lumps me in them and walks away from all three of us instead of realising he needs to help me. I get stressed yes but that is because I’m trying to parent and he isn’t really.

Sometimes be talks to me like I’m a child and that really annoys me. He thinks I’m as emotional and stupid as they are. He can’t see that out of 4 of us he is the one with no emotions.

Yes I believe my partner is definitely having a hard time with all of the expectations on him. If your nervous system reacts to expectations it must be so hard being in a family.

Does your H know that he is autistic and has difficulties? We are all the problem in my family, me and kids. He has definitely been brought up to see no problem in his outlook. We have autism and ADHD both sides of the family. My side I would say no idea but more socially introverted and clever, his side no idea but very big headed. I find myself caught between emotions are something to feel and emotions are bad and no one wants them. I am the only ND one apart from my kids who has emotions, but I am the only female apart from the two mums (both mums are socially distant) his puts on a happy face 24/7 mine is controlling.

Neither me more nor my husband has been modelled emotions by our parents because they don’t seem to have any.

@Marshmallowkiss has your dh told you he doesn’t feel shame, just frustration?
One thing I’ve learnt is to not assume what others are thinking or feeling. It often is very different from what we think it was.
Thats also why I’ve stopped ‘rescuing’ dh. Who am I to decide what he wants or needs? I mean I’d be pretty annoyed if dh did that in big part because he gets it totally wrong

fwiw dh shows very little emotion. Not even joy, happiness, grief, sadness.
It doesn’t mean he doesn’t feel those emotions.

Frustration and annoyance is very often, NT or ND, how emotions come out.
One feels ashamed and then lashes out is a common one.

He also won’t step up with the dcs (not that that they need that now lol) because he doesn’t know what to do. Stepping back is his default position, the safest one for him.

That is lovely @Echobelly

Neither dcs are cuddly here, dc2 being happier with it than dc1. I miss that. There is something about expressing your care and your love, a way to communicate you don’t get just with speech.

Mine also steps back but then will complain how I handle it. I would bloody love him to step in and handle it. Easy to stand on the outside and point fingers when you aren’t parenting two asd kids with zero sense of danger and bugger off at every occasion and I’m stressed the hell out. I’m not my best when I’m stressed to breaking point but then is anyone. He says work is stressful, yes it is but have you parented 2 asd kids 24 hours of the day. You aren’t emotionally attached to your staff, they aren’t trying to kill themselves and they can poo themselves! We went out today as a family, what a shitshow! He hasn’t a clue, he’s just stressed at their behaviour.

These last few days,I’ve been ill with ‘a cold’- fever, very tired (well more than usual), bad sleep etc…
As usual dh stayed silent. Did nothing to ‘help me’ and certainly didn’t say any ‘kind words’ of support.

Now what is interesting is that I was telling him I struggled to breathe well with my nose blocked. He had this look in his face and after pushing (quite a bit lol), he finally said ‘I don’t know what to do to help. I don’t know what to say’.

And that’s the bottom line. He doesn’t know so says nothing and I end up feeling uncared and let down. But it’s not that he doesn’t care. He does.

Its really clear that a relationship with him can only work if I’m totally independent or can be very specific on what kind of practical help I need.

I think I struggle to understand people are different. I personally have a lot of quite powerful feelings. I have to try and stay away from too many people because I take in how they feel and I become very overwhelmed. People upset me, people are false and competitive etc. Other people must have less reactive feelings. I am useless in an emergency as I panic, my H does not. There must be people opposite to me, they feel too little. Other people they must look at me and think get a grip. I am very emotionally lead. I’m guessing others who are not emotional are lead by other things. I need to help to make my feelings go down, I hate to see people sad. Other people must not feel anything so can easily not help. If I don’t help I will end up with guilt. I’m not sure if I’m normal or not? Surely these feelings stop us from just not caring and responding? My emotions force me to respond because I hate to see people sad and I hate my own feelings about the situation. I’m like your H though in that I often don’t know what to say or
how to help and I reach overwhelm and panic.

I have just learned that helping people is a form of emotional regulation. So that means people pleasing is emotional regulation. I also thought that autism meant that they have lots of emotions. But I’ve also read that some have very few emotions. So if you don’t get an emotion then you don’t need to regulate it.

I think I've mentioned before the DH doesn't notice I'm ill unless I expressly say 'Please can you give child lift/do the shopping etc because I am too ill to do it'. To be fair, I am very seldom so ill I can't do things, or if I am a bit ill, I hate sitting around doing nothing unless I am really unable to go out and about, so it may be hard to tell.

Even slightly indirect phrases like 'I think I'm coming down with something' or 'I've got that bug DS had' will just not land at all.

A few years ago we had a conversation about me getting a bit annoyed about him constantly reminding me when he was ill and he said 'Well I just want you to know why I'm not doing stuff' and I realised that he doesn't think people will remember if not reminded constantly because he wouldn't! After that I started explicitly stating I was too ill to do X or Y because otherwise he didn't realise - not that he didn't care, it just seems to need a of signposting beyond me sneezing and sniffing a lot.

We had a session with therapist today that clearly left DH feeling a bit bruised, I think mainly as he was tired and forgot his meds today he felt it was 'all about his bad behaviour' but I hoped he noticed I was being pretty honest about myself as well.

In many ways I think we have moved past some of the worst arguments as he says after Educational Psychologist assessment for DS last week he's seen a expert assessment outlining that DS really does has specific learning challenges. Which I hope will translate to understanding that it's not laziness, it's not 'a behaviour'. And I hope, and I know this will take longer, will understand this is why I 'undermined him' (ie refused to back his approach) because I recognised this from my own research and looking at what experts said and what adults with ADHD said. So many had accounts of how they were harmed by a parent or parents who tried to shame them, call them lazy, claim they were misbehaving or ungrateful to their teachers - and that way led to at 'best' low self esteem, at worst, giving up on learning, leaning into drinking, drugs and so on. I don't know if he understands I wasn't 'undermining' him to be defiant, or for fun, it wasn't at fun all. I was defending our son's wellbeing and, actually his ability to learn. I was never asking him never to intervene with DS, just to do it in a way that was patient, even if it might slow or ineffectual.

I really hope he means it about getting a new level of understanding from the EP and that doesn't just evaporate next time he's at a low ebb and DS is having difficulties.

I’ve learnt that an ‘expert’ telling dh that xyz is happening is always better than me telling him even if, like you, I’ve done the research etc….
It seems to be a pretty common trait with ND people.

So hopefully, he is going to take all of that fully on board!

Im not sure whether he will then realise you weren’t undermining him but just saw what is going on earlier than him.
dh would more likely adjust his behaviour to the new set of parameters. And then claim that WE did the right thing by doing xyz in the first place. Never mind he didn’t want to and fighted me all the way!

Its frustrating but in some ways maybe the most important is that your ds can receive the most appropriate support from his dad too,

Thanks - that's a really good perspective I'll use with him that it was that I had looked into the issue and genuinely I knew what he was suggesting wouldn't help. It wasn't just I found it distasteful, which I did, and couldn't go through with it on account of being 'too soft'. It was just that everything I had read and seen said clearly that was counterproductive.

I think you’re a really wonderful mother, @Echobelly. I hope I can parent my kids through their exams as well as you have. You’ve been measured, understanding and compassionate to everyone and they are super lucky to have you 💐

Can I join? I would be grateful for some perspective as I'm in crisis.

I've been the NT half of a NT/ND relationship for over twenty years. The relationship has been intense. That has caused plenty of issues but I felt least DW was always honest, if sometimes brutally so and I do love her and we have had many good times along with the crises.

Elder DD has recently left home and says DW simply does not listen and DD doesn't like her. DW accuses me of turning DD against her, which hurts me.

When DW threw that at me recently. I asked why she'd want to be married to someone she thought that of. The whole exchange became heated with DW saying various things and me asking her why she'd say that of someone she said she loves (one of her responses was "it's tough love"). DW called me abusive and said when recently she'd been out without me people had told her they were glad to see her without me and that they felt I controlled her.

Please believe me, this simply isn't true. I've told DW to do what she pleases without me. But she always wants to do everything with me. She has no friends of her own that she sees regularly. I really wish she did.

After she told me this I did go out by myself. A friend saw something was up, and asked me how I was. Being asked that made me nearly break and I could only hold myself together long enough to be steered somewhere private. I was so grateful for the kindness.

I have to reckon with the probability that DW isn't as honest as I thought and that she told me a nasty lie at best to upset me in the moment, and at worst to try to make me second-guess how everyone in our social circles thinks of me. The thought of anyone thinking I'm some kind of coercive controller horrifies me. As does the possibility that I am - but surely no one can be that, unintentionally.

DW wants to go over what happened, but to be honest, I truly don't as I'm feeling much too raw and don't know what what sort of discussion it'll be.

DW has lost a series of jobs over the years and a few months ago became quite possibly suicidal, an ordeal that left me exhausted. She did recover but since then I just don't seem to be able to bounce back.

My heart hurts.

Please someone talk some sense into me.

I have no advice I’m sorry. But I have a similar experience with my older daughter. She has openly told me lately that when she is “bored” or feeling sad she has deliberately provoked arguments and lied in order to get the reaction. This then filled her with stimulation (dopamine). Perhaps she is seeking dopamine because she is feeling rejected. Obviously as I’ve said to my own kid if you are going to behave in jerkish ways then people will reject you, that’s inevitable. I think it’s a twisted logic way that they can regain some control back. It’s not nice, I’m sorry. It has you questioning yourself. A lot of the behaviour they simply haven’t got control over but provoking and telling lies to you and you reacting they do have control.

I have been thinking about love and how we show love to each other. I had this thought that we define love by how our nervous systems react to each other and to things. If a nervous system hasn’t picked up on something and hasn’t reacted then we assume that means we aren’t loved or thought about. It’s actually made me think about how I’ve been wrong. I’ve insinuated that he doesn’t love me just because he hasn’t responded. If our nervous systems are programmed to respond to different signals then obviously some things won’t work. Changes the whole way I view love.

@ThirdEbikeroftheapocalypse really sorry to hear you’re going through a tough time. I’m afraid your daughter has seen the light. She recognises your wife’s behaviour for what it is, unpleasant, controlling and manipulative. She’s grown up and recognised that things are on your wife’s terms or not at all? I’m guessing here, but it would seem likely as she is accusing you of being controlling. The person you love should be your safe place, they should never throw that back at you. Do you want to continue as you are or would life be better without her in the picture. I know that sounds brutal, but she is breaking you and you need to consider if the occasional happy time is worth it. For what it’s worth I’m the NT in a 26 yr NT/ND relationship. Yes we have had big ups and downs and no it has not always been easy, but my husband has never told me I’m controlling or been personally derogatory to me, we might swear at each other occasionally when tempers are really high but it is never name calling or personal attacks. Plus the being blunt/very honest is bullshit, it’s just a way for people to be nasty, you can learn what is or is not the right thing to say, particularly in a long term relationship when you have learnt what pushes someone’s buttons.

I'll have to think about that. My best guess is that DW said what she said because she was angry rather than bored. But she hasn't retracted it and it's been nearly a week now.

DW is behaving entirely normally.