Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ ND: support thread 18

[Bluebellforest1]

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, some have ND children. It is a support thread and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations and try to keep it specific to you and your partner.

these threads have been going about 10 years now and have been a lifeline of support for many of us.

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5447569-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-17?latest=1

Thank you for the reply. I don't know what is going on. I'm so confused. I don't know why a person would say such things about me and at the same time say she loves me anyway (while very angry). It just makes no sense.

I wonder whether it's not neurodivergency but something else.

Perhaps she is equalising. I read up a bit on this with the PDA profile. I have to admit the line between Autism and narcissism to me feels very blurred. If she is equalising then she is trying to re-gain a sense of dominance and control over the fact that someone has made her feel less than. It’s entirely unconscious and a defence mechanism. This part of the autistic profile I really struggle to tell the difference between Narcissistic to be honest.

I have a mother who does this, create scenes and sits there sucking the negative emotion out of them like a leech, while always being able to say "I didn't do anything".

I'm sure she's ADHD from a lot of her behaviours, but also narcissistic.

I recognised as a young adult that I have the ability, and the motivation, to do the same, but I managed to train my brain to stop pushing me in that direction. I'm pretty proud of how well I succeeded in that, to be honest.

I also have an ADHD brother (undiagnosed) who craves attention and will obtain it by any means possible. Including inviting guests around to dinner, going out to fetch the coffee and returning with the coffee stark naked.

I think the necessity for attention of any kind is very strong in many people with ADHD.

I agree completely. ADHD and narcissism too.

It’s very hard. I try and talk to her and explain to her the chemicals in her brain and what they seek. How to go about this in a positive way because the brain can’t distinguish between positive and negative attention.

I don’t think it is ADHD and narcissism, although someone whose has no support could very much look like it. I think it’s ADHD and ASD with the PDA profile. I am very uncomfortable about how this will pan out for her future. I am not going to lie I can feel this within myself but I am able to understand where it’s come from and I don’t act upon.

Everyone hates to feel less then. But with the PDA profile it’s a strong reflex connected to the nervous system. It’s sad because you can only imagine the lengths you will go to to not become so physically distressed and triggered to survival. I can imagine the narc part becoming the self esteem but I’m pretty sure my daughter hates herself at times and you can only survive that feeling so long before something steps in and replaces it to protect her.

@ThirdEbikeroftheapocalypse as someone else has said it could be about control, if she’s felt out of control or dismissed at all. It’s a behaviour that often gets discussed on here (when people describe abusive relationships) as it’s a very good way of making someone behave because you don’t know whether you’re coming or going because they’re being nasty on one hand but nice on the other and it makes you doubt yourself. She may not be doing it with full intention but it may make her feel safer. Either way it is not acceptable and you do not have to put up with it.

I think, NT or ND, people say things in anger that don’t always reflect how they feel. (or how they THINK they feel)

I think this happens often because people are totally dysregulated, out of control. You see that in trauma fir example when someone is triggered by something that looks very small.
And we also know that ND people have a higher rate of trauma….

Underneath though, the ‘real’ feeling, like love, are still there.

Not talking about it is a different issue, often linked to shame and hoping that everything will go away if you brush it under the carpet and don’t mention it.

Tbh, I think it’s impossible to say whether it’s one or the other or just plain nastiness.
Being able to say ‘that’s just her/him who is a twat, abusive, a narcissist’ makes it easier to say LTB and to do it wo a backward glance. But I don’t that matters.
The bottom line is still there same imo.
Youre getting hurt @ThirdEbikeroftheapocalypse and that’s not ok.
You can’t carry in doing the same thing than before because nothing will change.
If, after having a chat about it, expressing your hurt and asking her to somehow change, nothing changes,then you need to put yourself first and protect yourself.

Repair, finding a middle ground, change are non negotiable imo. Otherwise, it’s always the same person that acts as a buffer. And that isn’t sustainable.

I am having this issue at the moment within my family. My daughter has a block between a situation and her behaviour. She has no idea about any part she plays in situations. I’m not sure if when in survival mode they have any memory. My H also can’t lie. Even lies that make someone feel better. This morning my daughter wasn’t well and couldn’t go to a carboot sale so I stayed with her. She asked him if there was any of her collectables there and instead of saying no don’t worry, he comes back with yeah there was loads. She then obviously melts down. I said to him this is a situation to lie for her benefit, she isn’t going, she won’t know and she’ll feel better to know she isn’t missing out. He then got shirty with me. I suppose looking that far forward about someone’s behaviour isn’t possible for him.

Hi everyone.
I'm in need of some advice and perspective on dh and his 'absence'.
I'm still waiting on the results of my scan, so feel I'm in some kind of limbo at the moment.
Now that my initial 3 month treatment plan has finished I am slowly starting to think of the future.
Incredibly nervous & scared but also still full of hope.
I hesitated at the beginning of all this to tell people, mainly because that telling them about my cancer, their automatic response was to ask how dh and the kids were coping. I have stopped feeling as though I'm throwing dh under the bus, he seems more than capable of doing that himself.
I had asked dh to give me these 3 months as I couldn't cope with his complete lack of interest, care or comfort towards me or his inability to comfort his children as they processed what was happening.
I at no time told him to never contact us, never show interest, never ask about my treatment, how i was coping.
I absolutely never said ' Do not contact your kids'
Did he hear that though? Did he hear me say all these things when I asked him to give me some space?
I am in no way trying to justify his neglect, just trying to understand how the man i was with for nearly 30 years could just stop caring.
Any insight or advice would be welcome. I truly value this board, so please, help me understand 💐

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy so has he basically ignored you since you asked for space? I’m assuming no contact unless you’ve initiated? This is hard I suspect there’s an out of sight out of mind aspect, not meant to be intentionally upsetting but is nonetheless and also but I’m giving you space that why you asked for. Sadly the latter will be the complete inability to comprehend that people are complicated and have mixed needs. I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong and it doesn’t really sound like he’s acted with malice, just zero empathy and being very literal. (I accept this is completely my interpretation and I may be way off but it’s what comes to mind for me.) Hugs

Thanks @Pashazade. I agree with your logic. I did ask him to go, so he was only " Respecting my wishes" (his words)
I agree with the out of sight out of mind reasoning too.
What i am struggling with is how can he not care how his kids are coping with their mother having cancer, how can he not want to comfort and protect his children?
I think realising how little empathy and compassion he actually possess has really shocked me. I dont know how to process it.

Yes, I agree with @Pashazade
Also, as I’ve said before, when dh doesn’t know what to say, esp if he has been ‘told off’, he retreats into silence. Out of fear of doing the wrong thing, saying the wrong thing.

The children is harder to explain isn’t it?
But then how has your dh being towards in his dcs in the last? Would he have had the hard conversations, explaining the x family member is unwell? Has he ever talked to them about how they are feeling?

I can’t talk about your dh but I know my dh isn’t lacking compassion as such. But he is totally and utterly unable to have a conversation that involves (emotional) intimacy or vulnerability. His or the other person.
He doesn’t know what to do with it. He doesn’t know how to respond. He is often feeling overwhelmed by the intensity of the feelings of the other person (some people say autistic people feel too much rather too little) and his automatic answer to that is to retreat hide

Btw I don’t mean his reaction is ok.
Its still hurtful.

But it might help you make more sense of his behaviour

Thanks @SpecialMangeTout3
That's what I'm trying to do.Make sense of his behaviour.
Dh doesn't do emotion, he never has done, he has never spoken to the kids about anything emotive. He doesn't talk about feelings.
I honestly couldn't say if he's overwhelmed with the intensity of emotional situations or if he has no emotional capacity at all.
The "damage" to the kids, and me, is still the same though.

I end up wondering if it’s not just an ND thing but also a man thing. I’ve known a couple of incidences where the men have just walked away. One has had no contact in six years then bitched he had a new family to take care of when CM finally caught up with him. The male of the species seems to have the ability to just switch off to their children. Not all by any means but it certainly happens more often with men than women and I don’t think it’s all down to social conditioning.

I realise I'm not sure about a lot of things anymore @Pashazade
These last 6 months have completely upended my whole world to put it mildly.
I'm at the stage where it doesn't really matter the reasoning behind dh's behaviour anymore. He has damaged our children so badly that they will probably be in therapy for years. I cannot forgive.
Just trying to understand, or maybe there is no understanding 🤔

And maybe that’s enough?

Sometimes we never really understand what drives people to act tge way they do.
And you dint need to know to be able to move forward.

You seem very clear on what the next steps will be re your marriage.
You know the impact your dh lack of emotions has had on you, on your dcs. It would be extremely surprising if this changes. But being aware of the impact means you can also plan to support yourself agd your DCs the best way possible. Even wo knowing why iyswim

Thanks @SpecialMangeTout3.
You're right. Maybe there is no understanding to be had, it just is.
I think because im telling people that dh is around and they are naturally asking if he's supporting the kids and me, even from afar.
When I say 'We'll, no he hasn't spoken to them in 9 weeks' I can't really explain anymore as I can't actually explain in either.
That's why im asking here really. We are all in the big ND pool, and I'm hoping I can find better words to use other than "I don't really know"

But do you have to explain?
Youre stating a fact - he hasn’t spoken to his dcs for 9 weeks.
If anyone asks why, I’d just say ‘you’ll have to ask him’
Because it is his choice, his mind, his emotions, his behaviour. Up to him to explain.
And how can you be expected to know anyway?

I agree with @SpecialMangeTout3 say you’ll have to ask him when they query, you can’t be expected to know. I am sorry life has gone so pear shaped. As Special said I think you know where you need to go now and all you can do is move forward looking after yourself and the kids as best you can.

It is difficult not knowing what someone is thinking or the reasoning behind their behaviour. If they can’t communicate then there is only ever speculation. I do believe some ND folk simply do not want your emotional energy. They don’t want your weakness, they want you to hide it and keep it away from them. Having my daughter and seeing how little empathy she has has been a real eye opener. She simply has no need for the other persons experience, no need, no way of understanding, it’s her experience only. I think we probably project our own feelings onto this, believing that all people deep down have feelings, when they don’t.

@Pashazade & @SpecialMangeTout3 You are right of course, I have no idea why dh is doing what he is doing and its not up to me to try and find a way to explain his behaviour. I realise its years/ decades of conditioning. I have always tried to cover for his lack of interest. Looks like im still doing it. How sad.
@Marshmallowkiss I had said on here, initially, when I asked dh for space and if he could move out, that i sensed relief from him. Maybe I wasn't imagining that reaction after all.
I think the enormity of the situation has overwhelmed us all. The fear we are all feeling, the unspoken terror of it all is overwhelming. We are all navigating this new thing the best we can.
The fact that dh just bailed on us, his children, hurts me to my core.
Looks like another new reality that has to be just accepted as part of our lives now.

I’m sorry, it’s probably a truth that has been lingering for a very long time that he has hid away. He simply doesn’t feel much about anyone. You asked him to leave and he has simply done it. From what you’ve said about your children it’s a long standing issue. We carry on because it’s become the normal but it causes so much damage to people.

My H definitely has very little empathy. He has a decent personality and he people pleases and wants to be liked but actual empathy, I don’t think so. I think a lot of ND people just want to be liked but lack some of the ways the majority of people need to feel to like them. I can like a person on a surface level if we maybe collect the same thing or like the same hobby. To like someone, to trust and love I need deeper levels. I know I won’t get this with my H. He looks at me like an alien when I speak sometimes, he is and I hate to say this pretty basic. Stuff goes like 20% into him and he’s done. Talk about his special interest and he’ll go deeper then the earth.