Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ ND: support thread 18

[Bluebellforest1]

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, some have ND children. It is a support thread and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations and try to keep it specific to you and your partner.

these threads have been going about 10 years now and have been a lifeline of support for many of us.

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5447569-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-17?latest=1

@Marshmallowkiss
At what point does someone’s needs or “I can’t help it” become a problem?

For me, it becomes a problem when my needs end up not being met or my and their needs clash.
It becomes a problem when there is no repair happening. When there is no responsibility being taken. When respect and care just isn’t present anymore. When I feel unseen and unimportant.

For me, it’s not a black and white issue of ‘this behaviour is acceptable/not acceotable’, a nice list kf things. But a balance between two nervous system, two persons, two personalities etc… so it will look somethimg very different from one person to the other.

I don’t think my H really helps my nervous system. I like to talk when I feel things. I hate to keep it all inside, I stew. He on the other hand I don’t think has ever told me about a feeling he’s had. When I talk to him there is no point, nothing would be resolved. He will want to fix it and that’s not what I want. Basically oh you are sad, shall I cut the hedge would that help or he’ll just direct the conversation to something utterly pointless! I don’t think he has feelings that he has to work through. He’s never mentioned a feeling. But I’ve experienced his pissed off if I’ve moved his things.

He doesn’t require me to help with the way he feels, he doesn’t have that environment. I’m not really sure why he needs me at all. To be hair I don’t think he does need me. Im not sure why I am here either apart from the fact we are all tied together now. I guess I liked his consistency and calmness but now I know it’s not calm, it’s just he doesn’t seem to have emotional intelligence.

You reminded me of when I met dh.
I was just co ing out from an environment that was ‘unstable’, full of drama ((not even a partner but friends and acquaintances linked to a hobby that was taking a lot if my time then)

And dh in comparaison felt safe. A rock. No drama but steadiness.
And then the reality downed on me that the steadiness, the ‘rock feeling’ is what I’m also struggling with - the inability to express his feelings or to ‘get’ my feelings - So yes no drama but also no communication, no intimacy either.

Fwiw someine mentioned alexithymia
I feel this fits very well tge way yu described your dh.

Not that he doesn’t feel. But that he can’t say what those feelings are. As a Resukt, my dh tends to hide them and to redress them which looks like he doesn’t care or has no feelings. A coldness that is hidding the feelings he can’t put into words.

He most definitely can’t name name them. I have seen him anxious but he doesn’t know he is anxious. What he does is to blame the thing happening so that thing is the problem and must stop. I am the problem for moving his things. When really he is expecting something silly to remain exactly where he left it in a house with me and 2 kids. That’s a you problem if you can’t put your stuff away in my eyes. He can evade his feelings that way, doesn’t have to look at them. If he did he’d realise that he has terrible executive function, hates change, hates not knowing and is being unreasonable.

Oh yes I can see how it’s also easier fir him to blame things rather than face executive dysfunction, rigidity etc.l.l

The (very open) question here is: what can he do about it?

There is a lot autistic people can learn. And there is also a lot that will never change. Where the boundary between the two varies from person to person.
Executive dysfunction, rigidity, alexithymia, all of those are stuff that can be mitigated but not eliminated. And mitigation might come at huge cost (theres a reason why suicide rates in autistic people is higher than the general population).

I don’t know the answer. More that autism is a disability, not something you grow out of. And that living with someone with a disability means accepting their limits.
Whether one can live with those is a different issue.

I don’t know. I have learned a lot having autistic children. I am kinder to myself and I am kinder towards him. Which has gone a long way. It is not reciprocal but that is because I have actually tried to understand why I suffer. I like to know absolutely everything about people, it’s how I’ve mitigated myself. I might not instinctually understand but I have taught myself about people. In a way it does help me because changing the way I speak means I’m met with less defensiveness which I understand is just self preservation and I doubt he really likes how he reacts sometimes. I can see he is sorry when he is sharp.

I think that there is a line between acceptable and not acceptable within any disability or spectrum. Lines that I will not cross. Physical acts of aggression, shouting in front of children etc are a no. Some people’s lack of control intentional or not is not for anyone to put up with. Everyone has their own line which I can understand is affected by past experiences. My line is strong because of my childhood not being so good. An angry man will not live in my house. Luckily mine isn’t angry.

Wise words @SpecialMangeTout3
I was ok when I met “d”h, divorced but ok. We didn’t live together for the first 5 years.
we had a bit of a plan (after a while) that we’d wait until my kids left home before we moved in together, but after nearly 5 years he was made redundant and offered a job nearer my home. My best friend had recently died aged 50 after a short and horrible battle with cancer. We’d been best friends since we were 2 years old. I was completely devastated. I was supporting her husband and teenage children as best I could as well as working full time and managing a home and teenage children.

The steadiness, safeness, love of routine, from him felt good. I felt supported, so I suggested he moved in. My kids (18 at uni, 15 at home) were ok with him moving in.
He wanted us to get married as soon as possible, for “financial reasons”.
after we married I realised that “financial reasons” meant financial control.

20 years from him moving in, 2 house moves, I have regained a lot of control but it’s been bloody hard, and I still have to fight my corner on a regular basis.

and yes, he’s a rock, no feelings, no emotion, no connection, no intimacy. Nothing.
we live separate lives in the same house.

I’ve just had to bite my tongue over his comment. He is stressy because I forgot to water some of the plant pots that we need to water everyday…..:even though it rained and he could just water and say no more. I said sorry I’ve got a lot on my mind and his response is simply “yeah”. I was going to bite but I haven’t. But letting him get away with the attitude is upsetting. By anyone’s standards I have so much on my mind. He does not understand why this would affect my functioning….I simply don’t understand this.

All of the things I have on my mind should be on his but they aren’t….I don’t know why, he loves the same people.

Can I join please ladies?

Certainly, welcome!

I think my main line is no apology or change. DH has bad moments and days, but he apologises when he is wrong and he does manage to change at least some of his ways at most of the time when brought to his attention.

Very much so.
Youre very welcome in this club no one really wants to join 😁

and yes, he’s a rock, no feelings, no emotion, no connection, no intimacy. Nothing. we live separate lives in the same house.

@Bluebellforest1 it sounds quite similar than here.
It’s not that there is no feelings as such but they are very well burried. And when they (rarely) come out a bit, it’s anger and frustration that comes up (usually with good reasons too. Things that would annoy most people)
Intimacy is too destabilising I think. Too dysregulating. Too strong.

The living separate lives came later for us. When I realised that his sweet spot is parallel lives just like many autistic people enjoy parallel play. And when I stopped yearning for something that only ever existed in my own head.

I feel like we’re heading in the parallel direction too. DH says it’s not what he wants but I can see the relief he feels when there aren’t expectations. I can’t be emotionally intimate without some level of expectation I’ve recently realised. Is there a way that I’m missing?

I don’t think there is. It’s like feeding a plant sandwiches, it’s not going to work. You need what you need, you are wired that way and that is that. He is wired his way and that is that. Unless there is a compromise that is satisfactory then I can’t see it working. I think this spot must be so difficult. When you have reached the point where you can’t go back knowing what you know and you can’t go forward with what you know, stalemate really. When all hope has gone, false hope but back they we don’t know what we know. I am wondering if I will reach this point the more I get disappointed.

The problem with expectations (at least with dh) is that they feel controlling.

Expectations of intimacy, saying what his plans are, even putting together a menu are all stuff that feel controlling to him (yes he told me many years ago that me putting together a menu for the week made me a controlling person. Never mind he was doing neither the cooking nor the shopping 😂😂)

@WindyW what do you mean by ‘you can’t be intimate wo a level of expectation’? Is it because you also expect somethimg to happen afterwards, like him making an effort to do xyz or him being emotionally intimate too?

Just been catching up with the thread. So much resonates with me.
Quick update: had my 4th Immunotherapy treatment today and get my 3 month scan next week. I had a serious side effect which put me in hospital for a week, pituitary gland has been badly damaged which means life long medication.
Kids & me are in counselling which is definitely helpful. It's so much calmer at home without dh.
As for dh, he's been out the house for 8 weeks now. We have had very minimal communication, basic practical stuff.
He will call, ask how I am, i say fine, then he talks about why he called.
He has never asked any questions and I honestly don't think he know what type of cancer I have, he hasn't asked about my treatment, he knows i was in hospital but didn't ask why, but I must be fine as they let me out.
He tried to call the kids a few times but they won't pick up, so he's complaining that they're punishing him now. Didn't understand when i said they are only reacting to his abandonment. He hasn't spoken to them in 8 weeks.
The irreparable damage he has done is completely lost on him.
My son has stopped calling him dad, as he doesn't deserve the title and my daughter has openly said she wishes he had got cancer instead of me.
I had always thought dh had alexithymia as well as adhd. In a way im hoping he does, so at least I have some explanation for the cruelty. The complete lack of interest, support, care, comfort has been utterly astounding and heartbreaking.
My point is, regardless the reasons, diagnosis, excuses that dh makes, and i made for him for decades, his inability to 'feel' had made the worst time of my life exponentially more painful because of him.
Don't wait for a change that will never come.

Oh this has come up in my house so much lately. It’s so difficult to navigate and to explain how give and take and how expectations work. My H thinks if he does a and b he we’ll get c….which is mainly sex. He does not understand that I don’t want to even though he has done anand b. Sometimes I’m tired, I’m stressed with the kids and life. He could have the worst day and it would not change his feelings about sex that day, he’s not put off.

My eldest I’ve tried to explain expectations in her friendships. It’s not fair for your friend to play your game and then you refuse to play her game. The expectation that the friend will be ok and you are hurt that your friend has called you a jerk. I find this hard to navigate.

I can see why they become introvert or defensive, it’s an awful lot of complexity to navigate. One day I press these buttons and I get one outcome, the next day I do the same and get a different outcome. Not being able to add all the information together from al the sources to get a specific outcome tailored to that day. Must be an absolute nightmare. It’s extremely challenging for me as I have RSD but I am not one who doesn’t know how they feel, I’m opposite.

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy im sorry youve had such a hard time with your treatment.
im 🤞🤞 for you that the scan will give you all the positive news you want and need.

It sounds that your decision to separate when you did was the right one for you. Dealing with the falling out with your dcs must be hard to juggle on the top of your treatments.
Are you getting support in RL? I mean, not just the counselling but friends, family?

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy
🤞🤞from me too. My “children“ are late 30’s/ early 40’s now, they remember that their dad (my exh) did very little with them, never played with them, never read to them, never went to parents evenings, never went to sports training or events or cubs/ scouts. They do remember, and although they see him fairly regularly they are resentful that he expects them to help him now he’s in his late 70’s

My DCs are early- mid 20s.
I was talking to dc1 recently checking if he was ok with dh.
DH has this thing where he simply doesn’t acknowledge someine coming in. So dc1 comes back from Uni, they haven’t seen each other for 3 months and dh basically says nothing, carries on with his thing.
dc1 shrugged his shoulders agd said ‘well that’s dad, isn’t it? I’m just used to it’

Just now dh sees them because I’m around. And we’re still ‘home’ but soon this will change. If we were separated, dh would hardly see them. There is this feeling that, because he thinks about them, that’s enough and they should know.
Not that dissimilar to dc2 acting as if we all know what’s going on in his head. So if he has thought xyz then we should be aware if xyz.

Thank you @Bluebellforest1 and @SpecialMangeTout3
I spent so many years trying to understand dh, learned what to expect, what he was and wasn't capable of. I have justified and excused his lack of emotional abilities to myself and the kids.
Dh never gave anything back, he made promises to seek help, 'try harder'.
At the end of it all, when our family imploded, when mine and the kids lives were changed forever, dh is still dh, he hasn't skipped a beat. His phone calls continue to be about him and whats going on in his life.
I initially asked him to move out for the 3 months of my treatment timeline and I honestly believe he took that literally and assumes he will just slot back in when "this is all over".