Was I wrong to call out his behaviour as predatory?

[Spooky2000]

I've known a man for a few years now and always thought that he was attractive and I knew it was mutual. I resisted though as he is a bit of a rogue (history of telling lies and cheating etc) that I knew of from some of the stories he'd told me when we were platonic.

Anyway. Around 4 weeks ago I gave in and we started dating, just a couple of dates a week. Last weekend he recounted a story to me that made me cringe because I'd heard something similar from him before and hoped that was a one-off. For context he's 51.

This is what was told to me. He was going to a gig last year that was hard to get tickets for. He'd bought two and as he was single and going on his own as none of his mates wanted to go, he decided to sell the other ticket . A woman contacted him and he said she could have it for £400 (face value £300). He tells me that she's super excited about this and is checking "it's real" (the situation) and said "I'm not being scammed, am I? I'm really going!?" (confirmation of the ticket). She was a stranger, never met/known her before. He somehow extracts from her that she's going on her own (she says). He then said to her that as he was going on his own and she was going on her own that he'd meet up with her at the grounds and 'go together; (she was given the ticket before this btw). The woman agreed but then on the day, surprise surprise doesn't show.

He then contact her afterwards (unsolicited) to ask if she enjoyed the gig and she says yes and says sorry she didn't turn up, she was 'late'. He adds her as a friend and then learns that she's married...

I had alarm bells going off when he was recounting this story which was presented as being altruistic and being 'concerned' for her welfare. It didn't strike me as that at all, I felt it was predatory really and said so. He was pissed at that, so no more dating. Aside from the fact that she didn't keep her boundaries and he crossed over anyway, I know that he's done something similar in the past and met someone who was going to a gig he was going to and he offered to meet her there. Who in their right mind meets a stranger off the internet when it's not a date?? It's not the action, it's the approach that has really made me feel ick.

A couple of friends think I was wrong for calling him out, but I see it as part of a modus operandi and I was really uncomfortable. What are your views?

Disagree; I've known him for some years and he was quite candid. Oh, and likewise - neither do you have any way of 'knowing the motivations or thoughts'; I however have more insight into these than you.

It was obviously a really big gig (given the cost of the tickets) and there would have been big crowds milling around outside for ages beforehand. Not really a dangerous situation to be honest.

'Predatory' would be deliberately asking her to meet him somewhere secluded or telling her she could only have the tickets if she agreed to go out with him or something.

You realise, don't you, that when people buy and sell things to strangers, they often have to meet that stranger? It's not especially unusual and the risks are absolutely miniscule.

I also don't really understand where he's failed to respect her boundaries. They had an agreement for her to turn up, and she didn't turn up. She hadn't blocked him or told him not to contact her or anything like that, so it seems pretty reasonable to me to message her and check she managed to get into the gig.

I think your overthinking it majorly

This has got to be one of the most batshit threads I have ever read on MN over the years. @Spooky2000The poor bloke has had a lucky escape from you. Predatory indeed. 😂

He hasn't done anything wrong.

I think you're more into him that you want to admit and you're possibly annoyed with yourself for 'giving in' to him (very old fashioned idea by the way)

You're being wildly disproportionate about risks and making colossal assumptions about people's lives.

I have, absolutely, been exposed to some extremely dark sides of life, and it is precisely this that makes me proportionate and realistic about risks. I know full well how the vast majority of VAWG occurs, and it's not from meeting someone outside a gig they've sold you a ticket for.

I have plenty of wits, instinct and caution, thanks very much, and it's fucking insulting to women who actually have experienced severe VAWG to starting twatting on about 'thinking it's all sunshine and butterflies'.

Oh, and no, I'm not 'younger'. I'm 50 and I'm about as streetwise as it gets.

You think I’m young. I’m not. I’m retired. I still wouldn’t frame asking someone to meet up to do a hobby as “hoping to get your leg over”.

You may know him better, and know he’s a sleaze bag. That’s fair enough. But his actions that you’ve put forward to us here are not out of order and don’t prove that he’s a sleaze bag on their own.

What I'm finding particularly funny here is that the OP is calling other people silly and naive for not seeing that this guy is supposedly predatory, when she was the one who actually knew what he was like all along AND STILL BLOODY DATED HIM 😂

Thats exactly why she's so upset about it.
The dissonance is deeply uncomfortable 😬

Absolutely this. It's so obvious. She's upset that he's turned out to be a player and now she's dealing with her disappointment/regret by trying to get other women to validate her by agreeing he's a predator. I'm embarrassed for her.

What was the gig?

I think the better reason there’s a parliamentary group for VAWG is because ‘older’ people like you keep victim blaming younger women and girls for the abuse they suffer like you’ve just done here.

What an absolutely ridiculous thing to say, women and girls are at fault for being raped and abused because they “go round thinking the world is sunshine and rainbows”?

This is how people used to get together pre internet. Honestlly I'm at a lose as to people are suppost to meet these days. Every attempt to go out with someone seems to be deemed risky or predatory.

The only thing he did wrong was charge her above the asking price.

I'm late 50s, we didn't do OLD in my day. We met blokes at pubs, parties, nightclubs, snogged them, then swapped numbers and agreed to meet up a few days later in a pub, cinema whatever. All men were strangers till we'd been out a few times. There was no chatting online. We just met them in a public place then the next few dates were in a public place.

It was maybe odd for him to contact her on social media but even then once he found out she was married he backed off, so no great harm done.

Never said I had any insight into these I said with the information you had given in i don't think it is preditory. If you have additional information or things he said then you need to tell us so that you get accurate answers. Otherwise you are still speculating and using what you know about him to come to this conclusions. This is not facts.

My husband was a stranger when I first met him.

This 100% victim blaming at its best.

@Spooky2000 So to sum up the situation. The woman was desperate for the ticket and was over the moon to have found one for sale. The seller (this bloke) withheld the tickets until she agreed to meet him at the gig. She obviously agreed to meet him because she thought he'd withdraw the sale if she didn't, and once she'd agreed he released the ticket. Yeah, that's pretty cunty behaviour. Not the worst I've ever heard, but it would definitely put me off him. And even worse that he told you this with some pride whilst you two were an item.

It makes just as much sense to do that as it does to meet up for a date. People do that after speaking fairly briefly.

You know you've got that band in common. He obviously saw her and spoke to her and thought, I'm single, we are both going alone, why not ask if she wants to meet up at the gig? He found her attractive I assume.

I honestly don't see what's wrong with that. She didn't show up as was her prerogative. But no harm done. Obviously he should've probably checked if she was single before asking to meet. And maybe she should've just declined.

But it's really a bit of a non-event. It's not even especially interesting or amusing so I don't really know why he told you the story at all?

It doesn't make him seem chivalrous or as if he was caring about her safety. Just that he wanted to ask her out. Which in itself is reasonable as he was single. But not especially noteworthy.

Aside from the opinion if he was predatory or not, I find it an unusual conversation to have, as it was basically such an uneventful brief happening in his life. Though apparently not to his brain. And relaying it especially to a new woman he was dating since the story involved another woman is stupid, and why would he think she'd find it interesting?

But as he has a history of being a rogue, and has repeatedly told stories of his past exploits to friends, it's what interests him the most. It's what's prominent in his mind, so it regularly spills out to whomever subjects themselves to his company. Anyway, good riddance you no longer have to listen to his boring stories about his interactions with people you have no interest in.

Not quite. OP doesn't say that he withheld the ticket until she agreed to meet him.

He then said to her that as he was going on his own and she was going on her own that he'd meet up with her at the grounds and 'go together; (she was given the ticket before this btw).

Ah that makes a big difference. In which case he was trying his luck, which on the face of it doesn't sound outrageous given that he was single. It's not a great story to tell the new woman in his life though, but I guess he thought he was showing off. Anyway, I expect he's a dick - far too many blokes are!

So you think there’s an epidemic of VAWG because….

It’s women’s fault they’re not savvy enough

fucking hell love

The way op talks about men and women’s relationships is a lot in those terms. Men are the predators and women are holding out before ‘giving in’ to them. If a woman, god forbid, met and dated a man she had not done enough ‘due diligence on’ then no wonder she’s a victim of violence. I think the 1950s want their ideology back

So what made you think he'd change for you? Because I cannot think of a reason why you'd date someone who you already knew is a cheater and a liar, other than naively believing that you'd be the special woman that he'd change for. And now you're pissed off that the leopard does not change its spots, not even for you.

As you yourself have rightly said, naivety makes women vulnerable to dangerous men. You yourself have been wilfuly naive. You yourself were aware of the red flags and chose to ignore them to date this guy.

Before I also get a pile-on: a woman being naive doesn't excuse a man choosing to take advantage of that, far from it. We recognise in law and policy a class of women who cannot help but be naive because they are learning disabled, autistic, survivors of childhood abuse, or any number of other reasons. We call these women "vulnerable". The men who choose to take advantage of naive women, whether vulnerable or not, are despicable. And at the same time, they exist, and we protect women best by training each other to recognise and act on red flags and by looking out for each other.