Was I wrong to call out his behaviour as predatory?

[Spooky2000]

I've known a man for a few years now and always thought that he was attractive and I knew it was mutual. I resisted though as he is a bit of a rogue (history of telling lies and cheating etc) that I knew of from some of the stories he'd told me when we were platonic.

Anyway. Around 4 weeks ago I gave in and we started dating, just a couple of dates a week. Last weekend he recounted a story to me that made me cringe because I'd heard something similar from him before and hoped that was a one-off. For context he's 51.

This is what was told to me. He was going to a gig last year that was hard to get tickets for. He'd bought two and as he was single and going on his own as none of his mates wanted to go, he decided to sell the other ticket . A woman contacted him and he said she could have it for £400 (face value £300). He tells me that she's super excited about this and is checking "it's real" (the situation) and said "I'm not being scammed, am I? I'm really going!?" (confirmation of the ticket). She was a stranger, never met/known her before. He somehow extracts from her that she's going on her own (she says). He then said to her that as he was going on his own and she was going on her own that he'd meet up with her at the grounds and 'go together; (she was given the ticket before this btw). The woman agreed but then on the day, surprise surprise doesn't show.

He then contact her afterwards (unsolicited) to ask if she enjoyed the gig and she says yes and says sorry she didn't turn up, she was 'late'. He adds her as a friend and then learns that she's married...

I had alarm bells going off when he was recounting this story which was presented as being altruistic and being 'concerned' for her welfare. It didn't strike me as that at all, I felt it was predatory really and said so. He was pissed at that, so no more dating. Aside from the fact that she didn't keep her boundaries and he crossed over anyway, I know that he's done something similar in the past and met someone who was going to a gig he was going to and he offered to meet her there. Who in their right mind meets a stranger off the internet when it's not a date?? It's not the action, it's the approach that has really made me feel ick.

A couple of friends think I was wrong for calling him out, but I see it as part of a modus operandi and I was really uncomfortable. What are your views?

I’m confused, she supposedly attended the concert because he asked her if she enjoyed the gig which meant she had received the ticket. It’s sounds like she was smart by getting the ticket and not meeting him (which was probably intentional).

Yes he sounds predatory but while you are so focussed on the behaviour of others, you need to ask yourself with all that you knew about this chancer beforehand, why on hells earth you agreed to date him?

On a dating app, both parties agree to the date and you have chatted before usually. Usually first dates are somewhere public and visible like a coffee shop so they can be kept short etc
this woman wanted to buy a ticket, she was not looking for a date, and certainly not follow up messages. The man does not get boundaries.

Yes, this.

It's not like he was tempting her into the back of a van with a box of kittens is it? Its an invite to a gig. Which she was free to decline and did.

Personally I'd feel confident to meet him if I fancied it, and no danger in such a public place.

You dated him, so how predatory can he be?

I don't understand why youre so upset about this.

The most interesting statement in your op is 'I gave in'. What does that mean? It sounds like you weren't taking responsibility for choosing to date him right from the first moment.

I’m Gen X, too. Late 50s. I’m careful about my personal safety (I remember the Yorkshire Ripper attacks happening). I think what he did was a bit of a try-on (particularly adding the extra £100) but i don’t think it was that strange of him to suggest they met at the venue and i don’t think agreeing to meet someone at a crowded venue represents a massive risk to personal safety. You do sound very angry about it and are being quite abusive to people who disagree with you. It obviously bothers you very much and that’s fair enough. I wouldn’t be wild about it if my DH did this because it is a bit icky.

Who in their right mind meets a stranger off the internet when it's not a date??

I've done this countless times. It's how I made a lot of lifelong friends in my early 20s. Went online to find people who shared my interests, found them, met them in IRL at events we both/all wanted to go to. Gigs were a big one! It was totally normal in the '00s to make friends with fellow fans of a particular artist that you'd met online.

I would have gone to a lot of gigs on my own anyway, but it felt much safer (and more companionable) to meet a fellow fan I'd already talked to online. That isn't an excessive risk - not even slightly.

OP, from your posts I'd think you either aren't involved in music scenes (where - I can't underline this enough - finding new people who are fans of the same music as you to be friends, or at least gig companions, with, is totally normal) or live life with an over-abundance of caution.

It's also normal to check on the welfare of someone who didn't turn up somewhere they said they would. The most danger this woman was in was while travelling to/from the gig by herself and I would actually say it was incumbent on your friend to check. It doesn't seem like he pushed any boundaries once he'd checked.

However I would say selling the ticket for above face value to a fellow fan is appalling behaviour and poor etiquette. That's not on.

So was your friend predatory? Sexually predatory - not at all. Financially predatory - yes.

I have literally called my own mother that, and I adore her 😂 mind you, I got absolutely bollocked on another thread for calling the op a tool, so what do I know? 😂
I don’t actually think matey was predatory but he was a bit creepy and persistent with following up. Meeting at the gig, I don’t think that’s very strange, they’re two people (supposedly) going on their own to a gig, so with a mutual interest.

❤️

80% of rape victims know the perp prior to the attack. Most rapes look like "date rapes".

The woman was pretty safe attending the concert alone. I do that all the time.

In addition to your post, there are some good, well made out points on here :)
I think I was being told the story as presenting what a 'good guy' he 'now' is. I've rejected his advances in the past because I felt the behaviours were not acceptable, and he's sort of tried to convince me he's not 'like that any more' by way of stories about how he's changed etc.

I know that he's done the same before with another woman and it didn't end well for either of them. It felt predatory to me (and as I say, I said so) because I didn't see it as checking she was OK at/after the gig, but as using this as an opener to continue a pursual which to my mind she'd already made clear that she wasn't interested by not showing up or messaging. I was disappointed I guess that he didn't see that this could be alarming to some, and didn't recognise boundaries. I'm pretty sure that if I was a man, I may have never got a date because I would look for clear strong signals that it was 'OK to proceed' and be respectful; perhaps wait for them to ask to meet etc.

I suppose perhaps it's horses for courses; if someone did that to me when I was just trying to buy a ticket I'd think he was a creep and if he continued, I'm not shy in saying F off.

I felt that he was angry not just at being told that in my view he's predatory, but more that he was challenged and any altruistic energy he was trying to give just wasn't accepted by me. I suppose that given I know more of his antics that I'm more biased on his motivations.

I understand what a lot of posters have said - that it wouldn't bother you, that this is 'normal' gig behaviour, but honestly I found it alarming and opportunistic. And as a lot of you say, he had no problem charging £100 above face value!

ETA: I've just remembered him telling me that a man at his workplace had called him predatory, as he repeatedly asked out and dated women who worked at the same place, so it probably triggered him to a large extent.

So confused. It’s not predatory or illegal to try and date someone/ have sex with someone. He saw an opportunity to do this and suggested it. Turns out she didn’t want to and it didn’t happen. He didn’t try and force her or con her. Nothing predatory at all here. Just a different version of a blind date.

He'd spent a bit of time trying to persuade me to have a date with him recently and over the last 6-7 years on and off. I finally said yes because I felt like he was growing up, for lack of a better expression - I felt in the past that he 'used' women and that given his circumstances had changed, there was less risk. I don't date casually (and haven't at all for many years) and it felt 'safer'.

How do you know she was uncomfortable. This is entirely made up. In fact she responded again and became his Facebook friend. AFTER THE GIG. Hardly the behaviour of someone trying to avoid a man.

Im Gen X and you’re being completely bizarre to be frank. You clearly hate the man though so move on.

ps. I also find your phrasing of starting to date him as ‘giving in’ as really fucking creepy.

Reread your own OP: I resisted though as he is a bit of a rogue (history of telling lies and cheating etc) that I knew of from some of the stories he'd told me when we were platonic.

He'd told you what he is like. You don't need to ask MN for permission to recognise that he is not dating material.

Have a good long look at your own minimisation of his self-confessed infidelity and dishonesty as "a bit of a rogue" instead of "willing to put his partners' sexual health at risk to get his leg over with someone else" and "untrustworthy". And have a good long look at why you still regarded him as a temptation to be resisted instead of a walking red flag to run a mile from.

What he did could be interpreted as friendly or it could be interpreted as creepy.

My initial reaction was that he was a bit pushy and creepy. This would have made me wary about meeting him.

You have the advantage of knowing much more about the man than any of us. You say his past behaviour had put you off him. This provides context into why you have viewed what he did in a negative way.

Trust your instincts. You know him well enough to make an informed decision. If you think it is creepy, it more than likely is.

Are you concerned he was going to try and sexually assault her?

I’m Gen X and this topples it. Why and how young people go out of their way to find offence and mildly differing behaviour problematic. it’s exhausting and the downfall of civilised society. Life is not social media. Most people are good

I suppose perhaps it's horses for courses; if someone did that to me when I was just trying to buy a ticket I'd think he was a creep and if he continued, I'm not shy in saying F off.

And this woman could have done the same thing. It's easy to block and ignore a FB message. The fact that she didn't indicates that she didn't think he was a creep - and in fact had actually been late, as she'd told him. Maybe that wasn't a lie!

Like I said I've met a lot of friends through music scenes; I've also encountered a ton of creeps. I wouldn't have accepted a FB friend request from the latter! Especially if they'd creeped me out to the extent that I'd already avoided them in person.

Also did your friend even say he was interested in her?! None of his actions are anywhere near pursuing someone romantically/sexually. Sells a ticket, offers to accompany buyer for gig, messages to check she's OK when she didn't turn up.

He doesn’t get off the starting blocks with me for selling at more than face value but then to have the cheek to seek it at that price and suggest to see her there - no wonder she decided to be late.

I think OP is conflating 'predatory' and 'quite keen to meet women'.

He may or may not be a creep but I don't see that hes done anything wrong here.

Fair enough :shrug: It's clearly not crossed your mind that she's just 'being nice', though I take your point that she could have just ignored the request. I don't hate him, but I will say that - now - I don't like him.

She had the ticket, she was free to meet up with him or not. He was single. I really don't see the harm in asking. They could have met and become friends or they could have met and never seen each other again after the gig.

No.

Equally, I think that he pushes boundaries that shouldn't be pushed. But y'know, lesson learned and all that.