DP and when we have sex, would really appreciate some outside perspectives please

[manaliiiive]

So DP and I have been together around 2 years. Both divorced, he has his kids 50 percent of the time - I visit occasionally when he has his DC but never stay over (neither of us want this to change).

Up until recently I had my DC (teens) 100 per cent of the time. This obviously made sex difficult and we used to go to DH’s when he had no kids and make time for it there.

DH’s home circumstances changed meaning it was much harder for us to have sex there although not impossible.

So we were left with the occasional very rare weekend night where we could sleep together overnight.

After about a year after consulting with my teens DP started staying at my house. All fine and we would have (very quiet, discreet) sex late at night when kids in bed, lock on the bedroom door. No issues arising from this.

The issue that we have always had in the relationship is that we only have sex when DP initiates it. If I initiate then I am invariably rejected, DP will also say things like ‘we’re not having sex tonight’ well in advance of us going to bed.

For context I do not have a particularly high sex drive, I’d be more than happy with twice a week or once if it’s a week when we aren’t seeing each other much.

But it’s very much that DP makes the decision. The only exception to this is if I spot a child free moment when we’re both available I could say something like ‘hey on Friday morning we’re both not working and no kids, do you fancy some alone time then go out for lunch’ or whatever. This I seem to be ‘allowed’ to initiate because I have asked in advance?

Anyway I had all this out with DP about a year ago as there were a few things that had upset me, given how little alone time we get I felt that he was prioritising other things rather than being intimate with me. For e.g. on rare child free nights getting pissed in front of the TV rather than taking the opportunity to go and have sex, leaping out of bed the next morning so there was no chance for us to have a bit of alone time.

I just didn’t feel he prioritised sex with me and still doesn’t. That’s not to say he doesn’t initiate - he does - but I never know when this will be so he can come over and stay for 5 days and we could have sex 3 times or none at all and it will all be down to what DP decides.

When I talked to him about this last summer he got upset and said I was accusing him of being controlling and that he ‘doesn’t know he is doing it’ I pointed out that he will literally flinch and move his face away if I try to kiss him beyond a peck on the lips.

I do recognise that people aren’t always in the mood, he also isn’t the healthiest and although there is no ED I think sex makes him tired (he’s not very fit due to a recent health problem) and just feels a bit too much like effort for him at times.

We went away for a rare child free weekends couple of weeks ago and basically didn’t have sex until the Sunday after I had a conversation about why we weren’t? I said I felt he was prioritising sleep and beer when we have so little alone time together. He said I was moody and that’s why he didn’t want to have sex with me.

Anyway (sorry this is long) in the last couple of months my ex has agree to have the kids one night a week so as of recently we have had one childfree night a week. Sometimes DP wants to have sex then and sometimes he doesn’t.

We were in the garden yesterday and he suddenly announced that we would no longer be having sex when my kids are in the house. I am of course happy to have a conversation about what’s made him feel uncomfortable etc. But that’s not what he initiated - just decreed that from now on sex is off the table basically 6 days out of 7.

I felt pretty rejected and upset because - although I am used to him rejecting me - I wasn’t prepared for it as we weren’t even talking about sex he just announced this out of the blue and I felt hurt and embarrassed.

We then had a long conversation about how I feel that I do not have any say in when we have sex (of course I can decline it, he is not remotely coercive I just need to make that clear). His response to this was:

He doesn’t know/believe he does this. I pointed out that I don’t bother trying to initiate any more so it would be hard for him to notice now - but gave the example of him announcing in the garden that we wouldn’t having sex most days any more as an example

If he does do this he isn’t aware that he is doing it, therefore this is just the way he is and I need to accept it because this is who he is and he can’t change

I have upset him because he believes I am accusing him of being controlling (i haven’t used that word) and his ex wife said he was controlling and that’s really unfair as it’s hit a really sensitive nerve as he was not controlling in the relationship at all.

He then basically intimated that I have to dump him if I am not happy as this is who he is and I must accept him as I am. He then said I’m not perfect and when my ex upsets me I sometimes ‘take it out’ on him. I acknowledged that at times when I’ve been upset about something else I’ve been upset with DP but also explained that I reflect, take accountability for my behaviour and always apologise.

Whereas DP’s take on this is that absolutely no reflection, apology or change is necessary with regards to his approach to sex I just need to accept him as he is or dump him.

Sorry this is so long, I absolutely appreciate that nobody is entitled to sex from somebody else, but does this really mean that they should never initiate it?

This is pretty much how I think i’ll proceed

I absolutely agree with this poster @manaliiiive Everything you have described screams ED issues which he is taking medical help for e.g viagra. He will be desperate for you not to find out because, to him, ED issues mean he isn't a real man and to admit that to you or any woman would probably destroy him mentally. He simply won't be able to tell you.

Without going into detail, I have had long experience of this with my husband. You have to decide whether all his good qualities outweigh this issue - or whether you need to finish the relationship. If it is ED it won't change and if you find out, the sex will probably stop altogether.

I stayed, because he is a very good man, I was older, already had 2 kids and my sex drive wasn't very high. You have to decide, for you, whether to stay or go. You are, at least, still getting some sex.

Don't be concerned about looking bad for ending the relationship. Just end it. He's a prick.

Life is short. Don’t waste any more of your precious time with him. Either accept the relationship as it is or move on.

I think the effect of his behaviour is controlling, but I don't think he's necessarily motivated by a need to dominate. He sounds really avoidant. His insistence on sex only when he initiates is based on demand avoidance. He has performance issues and when OP initiates, his anxiety increases. When he's in control, he can make sure he's medicated and his anxiety is reduced because it's his choice, and not an external expectation.

The problem with all of this is his approach is all smoke and mirrors. He's unwilling to be open about what's going on and work out together how to make things work for both people. He's determined to hide his problem and protect his ego and is willing to gaslight the OP to do that.

You could either walk away, OP, or tell him you know somethings afoot and won't be fobbed off, so if he wants things to continue he needs to be willing to open up.

Urgh. That's why his ex wife dumped him and "she was wrong" so don't accuse him of the sane thing because he's been left feeling sensitive about it. You women are clearly both right and it sounds like you need to throw this one back. You don't get to live these years again, prioritise your own quality of life.

@manaliiiive - Apart from the intimacy issue, he actually sounds quite caring from other things you’ve said (doing jobs around the house, running the kids around and looking after your dog, etc). One thing that struck me was you saying that he's more affectionate with you than with his exes - and it sounds like he has made an effort to show affection physically.

I might be completely wrong, but I wondered if there could be something from his past that’s affecting how he feels about intimacy now. Sometimes childhood trauma can shape people in ways they don’t always realise (the need and ability to control things as an adult). It might explain why he wants to be the initiator for sex and why he’s so firm about not wanting sex when the kids are around?

I know it’s a cliche but we do have a lovely relationship outside of this, he absolutely has my back and makes me feel safe and supported.

This is partly why it has thrown me so much because gaslighting is scary behaviour. Last time we discussed it he said ‘sometimes i’m just not in the mood’ and i accepted that.

But this time he’s denied he’s in charge of when we have sex literally five minutes after making an announcement that we won’t be doing it Tuesday to Sunday anymore.

The score keeping is weird. It sounds like he’s treating sex like a performance and a game rather than a mutual connection. This might explain why his other relationships were the way they were.

I don’t think you realise how odd it is that he is measuring himself against his past instead of how well he is meeting your needs.

Why should you be grateful for his “improvement “.

Nobody HAS to but if you’re in a relationship you want to continue then communication is pretty important.
In this scenario, I don’t need to think about role reversal - I’m similar to the OPs husband. I don’t HAVE to explain each and every no to my DH, but if he’s feeling rejected a lot then then yes I do take time to explain why sex isn’t important to me at this moment in my life. Because I love my DH, I care about him and want to talk about it.
Talking about it to try and understand why isn’t coercion (coercion being forcing someone to do something against their will by intimidation or violence). If after talking, and the reasons are incompatible to a future relationship, then OP can decide to leave or not.

In which case it’s worth continuing to try to communicate with him.

He may not see himself as “being in charge of sex” just for setting boundaries around when he’s comfortable to have sex. It’s ok not to want to have sex with kids in the house, it may be that he’s gone along with it for a year and now he wants to speak up.

I do understand this feels like rejection and it feels hurtful, but so many women could attest to the fact that, just because they don’t want to have sex every time their DH wants it, doesn’t mean they don’t fancy them or care about them.

How it feels from your side is not necessarily related to the intention or motivation on his.

If it’s only when he initiates could he be suffering from erectile dysfunction and so has to medicate (viagra) ahead of having sex? So it must be on his terms to plan? That would then make sense with why he may reject your kisses etc incase they lead to spontaneous sex that he cannot control? He may feel embarrassed to tell you x

@itsonlyafuckingbiscuit I think the effect of his behaviour is controlling, but I don't think he's necessarily motivated by a need to dominate. He sounds really avoidant. His insistence on sex only when he initiates is based on demand avoidance.

This is absolutely key. Avoidance vs dominance - this is very much the former.

This is a good thing ..that your not sharing homes or money.
Don't go any further down the path of combining your lives together,or you will definitely find out just how controlling he can be

Maybe turn him down now and again? If it's a Viagra situation that would make it very uncomfortable for him and it would be interesting to see his reaction.

You need to ask for more clarification on why the blanket ban has been announced

He is controlling.

His ex wife was spot on.

You are spot on.

'It's just the way he is', sure, but that way IS controlling.

Dump him.

Rule of thumb. If he makes you feel shit for any reason, it's a no go. It doesn't matter what other people would feel or not feel. It's you putting yourself out there to get slapped back.

He has all the power. Drop the rope.

Why bother? Just leave him! He knowns damn well what he is doing, because he has been told often enough by both you and his ex. He is a liar and manipulator. Unless he has Alzheimers and forgets 5 mins later, he knows what he is doing. And you know it. He gets off on gaslighting and controlling and manipulating you. Making you doubt yourself. Stop making excuses. Get some self respect. Don't stay with this micro-managing control freak any longer.

Is he neurodivergent?

This is plausible along with the ED/viagra angle but I think his mindset likely has something very misogynistic as well. I found it striking how he TELLS OP how things are going to be, like he's the boss of her:

"If I initiate then I am invariably rejected, DP will also say things like ‘we’re not having sex tonight’ well in advance of us going to bed."

"We were in the garden yesterday and he suddenly announced that we would no longer be having sex when my kids are in the house."

"He never explains. All I get is “we need to go to sleep”

"If I tried to give him a hand job he would roll away and say ‘we need to go to sleep’ or if it was the morning ‘we need to get up’"

"it was basically ‘just FYI sex is no off the cards tuesday to Sunday from now on’"

"we" - he's commanding her in all of these statements. He's placed himself in the upper position where he tells her what will happen, and no discussion will be brooked. It's giving a "I'm the Prize" vibe, where OP is his subordinate who should be grateful for him bestowing his lordly attentions on her.

Also, there is not only gaslighting, he's DARVOing her:

"He said I was moody and that’s why he didn’t want to have sex with me."

"He then said I’m not perfect "

And OP herself is wondering about a misogynistic mindset:

"But I’m concerned he thinks it’s a man’s job to initiate and it’s unattractive if a woman doesn’t"

And the weird thing about how many orgasms OP has - that's him comparing himself to other men, in a manosphere-like competition where women are really just objects that display the man's status compared to other men:

"he’s weirdly competitive about sex. He wants me to have more orgasms than him (which I do, it is not remotely hard for me with PIV and only take a few minutes) and it’s like he’s ‘won’ if the score is 3-1 (he’s literally said this before)."

I think this man might have some seriously misogynistic views. That's not going to go away unless he is aware of it and consciously fights it.

I had a brief relationship (very brief!) with a man who was turned off by women initiating, and he said he only liked missionary with the woman not moving too much or making too much noise. I ended things as soon as I realised - he obviously had issues, no idea what or why, but it was not for me.

This seems very much like a control thing, and if his ex found him controlling, surely that's the answer.

@LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta There are many different interpretations of his behaviour.

🥱

For context I do not have a particularly high sex drive

Argue semantics as you like, it's you with the problem not me.