DP and when we have sex, would really appreciate some outside perspectives please

[manaliiiive]

So DP and I have been together around 2 years. Both divorced, he has his kids 50 percent of the time - I visit occasionally when he has his DC but never stay over (neither of us want this to change).

Up until recently I had my DC (teens) 100 per cent of the time. This obviously made sex difficult and we used to go to DH’s when he had no kids and make time for it there.

DH’s home circumstances changed meaning it was much harder for us to have sex there although not impossible.

So we were left with the occasional very rare weekend night where we could sleep together overnight.

After about a year after consulting with my teens DP started staying at my house. All fine and we would have (very quiet, discreet) sex late at night when kids in bed, lock on the bedroom door. No issues arising from this.

The issue that we have always had in the relationship is that we only have sex when DP initiates it. If I initiate then I am invariably rejected, DP will also say things like ‘we’re not having sex tonight’ well in advance of us going to bed.

For context I do not have a particularly high sex drive, I’d be more than happy with twice a week or once if it’s a week when we aren’t seeing each other much.

But it’s very much that DP makes the decision. The only exception to this is if I spot a child free moment when we’re both available I could say something like ‘hey on Friday morning we’re both not working and no kids, do you fancy some alone time then go out for lunch’ or whatever. This I seem to be ‘allowed’ to initiate because I have asked in advance?

Anyway I had all this out with DP about a year ago as there were a few things that had upset me, given how little alone time we get I felt that he was prioritising other things rather than being intimate with me. For e.g. on rare child free nights getting pissed in front of the TV rather than taking the opportunity to go and have sex, leaping out of bed the next morning so there was no chance for us to have a bit of alone time.

I just didn’t feel he prioritised sex with me and still doesn’t. That’s not to say he doesn’t initiate - he does - but I never know when this will be so he can come over and stay for 5 days and we could have sex 3 times or none at all and it will all be down to what DP decides.

When I talked to him about this last summer he got upset and said I was accusing him of being controlling and that he ‘doesn’t know he is doing it’ I pointed out that he will literally flinch and move his face away if I try to kiss him beyond a peck on the lips.

I do recognise that people aren’t always in the mood, he also isn’t the healthiest and although there is no ED I think sex makes him tired (he’s not very fit due to a recent health problem) and just feels a bit too much like effort for him at times.

We went away for a rare child free weekends couple of weeks ago and basically didn’t have sex until the Sunday after I had a conversation about why we weren’t? I said I felt he was prioritising sleep and beer when we have so little alone time together. He said I was moody and that’s why he didn’t want to have sex with me.

Anyway (sorry this is long) in the last couple of months my ex has agree to have the kids one night a week so as of recently we have had one childfree night a week. Sometimes DP wants to have sex then and sometimes he doesn’t.

We were in the garden yesterday and he suddenly announced that we would no longer be having sex when my kids are in the house. I am of course happy to have a conversation about what’s made him feel uncomfortable etc. But that’s not what he initiated - just decreed that from now on sex is off the table basically 6 days out of 7.

I felt pretty rejected and upset because - although I am used to him rejecting me - I wasn’t prepared for it as we weren’t even talking about sex he just announced this out of the blue and I felt hurt and embarrassed.

We then had a long conversation about how I feel that I do not have any say in when we have sex (of course I can decline it, he is not remotely coercive I just need to make that clear). His response to this was:

He doesn’t know/believe he does this. I pointed out that I don’t bother trying to initiate any more so it would be hard for him to notice now - but gave the example of him announcing in the garden that we wouldn’t having sex most days any more as an example

If he does do this he isn’t aware that he is doing it, therefore this is just the way he is and I need to accept it because this is who he is and he can’t change

I have upset him because he believes I am accusing him of being controlling (i haven’t used that word) and his ex wife said he was controlling and that’s really unfair as it’s hit a really sensitive nerve as he was not controlling in the relationship at all.

He then basically intimated that I have to dump him if I am not happy as this is who he is and I must accept him as I am. He then said I’m not perfect and when my ex upsets me I sometimes ‘take it out’ on him. I acknowledged that at times when I’ve been upset about something else I’ve been upset with DP but also explained that I reflect, take accountability for my behaviour and always apologise.

Whereas DP’s take on this is that absolutely no reflection, apology or change is necessary with regards to his approach to sex I just need to accept him as he is or dump him.

Sorry this is so long, I absolutely appreciate that nobody is entitled to sex from somebody else, but does this really mean that they should never initiate it?

You don’t sound happy and that’s the most important thing. End it, he won’t change, it’ll all only get worse.

To be fair many women are like this too.

How many women in ltr on here report feeling pressured into having sex when they don’t want it, trying to avoid it, feeling pressured by a kiss or touch in case it leads to the expectation of more etc.

The advice is that it’s ok to set boundaries - to not have sex when you don’t want to, to only have it when you do.

But one person’s “boundaries” are another’s “control”.

I don’t really understand why he’s being called controlling and abhorrent? If OP is up for sex 100% of the time it’s on the cards and him only 50%, you could say he’s controlling that but that’s his right isn’t it?! He’s already said he can’t or doesn’t want to give more, and that you should leave if you’re not happy. I say fair enough. You’re not unreasonable to leave if it’s not working for you, but you are unreasonable to nag someone for sex when they don’t want it (and if genders were reversed that’s all the replies would be saying).

Did you miss the bit where he's playing with her nipples in bed, knowing full well this is turning her on, and then pushing her away?

Well what happens if you say at the moment he starts doing that 'No... Not unless this is leading to something.. Other wise dont tease me it's not kind'?

And we’ve heard the same from women here that they’re afraid to touch their DH’s as it leads to pressure for more. This is actually a common problem in relationships.

Why not set your own boundaries? That he doesn’t touch you sexually unless he’s in the mood.

Possibly the ED and viagra but that doesn't explain his controlling and manipulative nature. Nor his history with his ex of being controlling. I think he'd be like this even without an ED. You don't need an ED to play mind games.

Exactly.

It shouldn’t be this difficult. You’ve been together for two years and live separately.

The flinching away from you when you try to kiss him and rejections will eat at your self esteem.

He says lump or dump. I’d dump.

It’s horrible to feel like you aren’t allowed to initiate because that’s a definite no. I don’t think some posters are getting the distinction between:

1. i might initiate affectionately, and then it might go somewhere or not, because my partner is an individual who has the right to want or not want sex and it could go either way
2. when I initiate it will certainly be refused as if the act of my initiating is itself a turn off. This isn’t because my partner never wants sex. It’s because he never wants it when it was my idea. In fact it’s not a regretful “hmmmm nice idea but not right now”; it’s a screwed up face physical total rejection that is SPECIFICALLY triggered by my wanting it, and saying so

number 2 is soul destroying. I’ve had that with two men who were essentially misogynist. They were also both lazy and rather too fond of the booze. The laziness was a specific kind of lazy that in general, not just with sex, intensely preferred passive entertainment to engaging with opportunity and real life and the irregularities and unexpectednesses tjat it might throw up. But also just misogynist

Th whole relationship sounds like hard work.

He sounds awful. Life’s too short. Boot him in the sea!

I think the million dollar question is how old are you both?

He sounds very similar to my DH. My sex drive was definitely higher. Lots of rejection of me, but sometimes he would be horny and want it several times in a row. On holiday, we could maybe have it once - or every day - all dictated by him. It's immensely confusing.

With my DH the problem was (is) mainly ED and a fear of not performing, coupled with carrying too much weight, and also not being able to get hard if he's had alcohol.

Whenever we would talk about it, he would always say the right things, and over the years he has tried.

The reason I ask your ages, is because if you are close the Menopause this issue may not matter to you very soon. I'm 56 and almost through menopause, and my sex drive has lessened - not disappeared - but things just feel less of a big deal now. We do still have sex, but it's far less frequent and it's okay. But we have been together for almost 18 years, so maybe that makes a difference too.

I do. I say ‘you’re sending mixed messages there babe’ and he will say something like ‘sorry I just love your boobs’ then stop.

I wonder if there's also embarrassment on his side about being so unfit at the moment and knowing that sex will take it out of him. He might feel like he doesn't want to give it a go if it's going to be half arsed or he's knackered, it could be emasculating for him and he'd rather say no altogether than have shit sex or not give it his all. I'm just thinking from an age and health perspective. When I've been at my biggest and unhealthiest I've been less keen to initiate, not because I don't fancy my husband but because I don't fancy me.

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Yes I think this might be part of it. He was out of action for several months last year for health reasons so obviously sex was off the cards then.

Im always more than happy to do the work though and he knows this!! He just knows I like missionary and always wants to do his best. It is partly that, the pressure he puts on himself.

I think if sexes were reversed you’d be called a sex pest.

hes got low libido ( possibly on viagra we don’t know or some other issue ) and he likely feels that everytime he sees you, or sleeps with you in bed you’re going to push for sex or ask him about it or want to talk about it / which adds pressure and feelings of not wanting to !

I agree it’s frustrating for you but you seem focussed on this . I’d not be happy if my boyfriend was planning in sessions and expecting it and always wanted to talk about it etc

that doesnt mean you put up with it, you can of course try to sit him down again and say you really need to talk about it and try to reach some resolution or you can decide that this is too important for you and end it

If he’s playing games then she can leave, because he’s deliberately messing her around. Perhaps he’s a weirdo with shame around sex who thinks women shouldn’t be sexual and he can only perform when he controls that part, yes also possible and again she should leave. Perhaps to him that’s all he wanted to do, or perhaps he was initiating something but then realised he actually wasn’t up for it? I don’t know. All I’m saying is controlling your own bodily autonomy is not being controlling, and people were calling him that from the OPs first post.
I’m assuming you were drawing my attention to that as evidence of his potential dysfunction in this area, and not to say someone is obliged to follow through with sex if they rub nipples/cuddle/kiss/do something else.

It all sounds so much hard work for something that should be so natural.
He sounds really selfish

What happens if he initiates and you say no?

What happens if he initiates it but you want to do certain positions or be in charge?

And I really really do appreciate all viewpoints, thank you. I absolutely agree that no one should ever feel pressured into sex and that’s why i gave up trying to talk about it and just accepted him being in charge.

But his blanket declaration last night wasn’t about him not being in the mood.

And it wasn’t, ‘hey let’s make some time for us at my house a couple of nights a week while it’s empty’ it was basically ‘just FYI sex is no off the cards tuesday to Sunday from now on’

And when i had an emotional reaction to this (basically becoming withdrawn because i felt so hurt) being called moody and told it was all in my head et. That bit IS controlling, the sex bit Im not sure about

After 2 years! 2 years is the best bit. You are better to dump him, he sounds joyless and difficult.

Indeed. And one person's 'trying to create the right mood' is another's 'outrageous pressure for sex'.

Which is why I originally said that mismatched sex drives are a killer. It is so hard to negotiate your way through them without being seen as controlling/sexually aggressive, cold/needy... She isn't married to this man. I'd cut my losses if I were her. He won't change, she won't change, neither should - life's too short if you can't communicate about it.

My husband and I communicate well on the issue. It makes a massive difference.

Sorry I have a different perspective on this. Call me what you want, I'm old fashioned or whatever, but just let him initiate when he wants for a while at least.

You are turning it into a loaded battlefield, or you both are.

Men of a certain age or not in great health, it can be pressure on them to perform. Honestly, just drop it and let him initiate for a while.