What would you think about this? My partner is excluding me from things without explanation.

[AmIJustMissingSomethingHere]

I've been with my partner for 5 years.

He has a lot of friends from the area where he grew up and, whenever it's someone's birthday or whatever, they tend to put on a gig at a local pub and all get together there to celebrate.

It's always quite an informal affair - everyone is invited - friends, husbands, wives, partners, girfriends/boyfriends of 6 weeks. In fact you're less invited and more presumed to be going. This is relevant.

Since we've been together, I've gone to several of these events with him. This is also relevant.

Except that, last summer, my partner went to one and didn't take me with him. There had been a lot of talk about it and because of the nature of the nights, it's always presented more as, "It's so-and-sos birthday on X. Such and such are playing. Have we got anything on?"

Last summer, we had the same conversation. The day before, I realised I hadn't got specific details and asked, "What time is it starting tomorrow?" He told me but that was it. I know how long it takes to get there so no problem. Only the following day, he asked me what my plans were for the evening. I was a bit stunned and said I hadn't got any. And he said, "Oh. OK. Well I'll be leaving at X time."

I didn't say anything because I didn't know what to say. I could have asked why I wasn't going with him but the small physical distance between us suddenly felt huge and I didn't feel like I could; I didn't want to have an upsetting conversation before he was going out for the evening and I didn't want to spend the evening on my own after a conversation that wasn't ever going to be positive.

I wondered if maybe that night was different for some reason but, no, the following day when he talked about it, the usual people had been there - all the same friends, husbands, wives, partners and girlfriends/boyfriends of 6 weeks... Just not me.

It's not been mentioned since. I've never asked and he's never explained. I'd pretty much forgotten about it, tbh.

But a few weeks ago, the conversation arose again. "It's John's birthday on Y at Z. There's a band playing. Have we got anything on?" No. Great!

Except that once again, there's been no mention of me going. I haven't been told I'm not going but then I wasn't last time either

We've been to gigs and the pub with John and his wife a few times. I can't think of any conceivable reason why John wouldn't want me there. We've always got on. I've always got on with his wife.

They're all very laid back and it's a live music pub where people are packed in until they're spilling out onto the street and no catering so not an issue of numbers.

In fact, the only probable explanation is that my partner doesn't want me there.

I just don't know what to say or what to think. There is no specific invitation to wait for as partners are automatically included. And my partner is definitely going. Nothing has been said to me either way. Like last year.

I just feel really stupid tbh. He is included appropriately with my friends. I wouldn't dream of going on a night out with couples without inviting him.

I wouldn't even mind if he said, "Look, AmIMissingSomethingHere, I haven't seen them in ages. Would you mind if I went on my own?" That would be fine and he knows that. But surely that would be acknowledged?

Any ideas?

I guess that's good as no rush to resolve things. I still agree with others that a conversation about how you both was the relationship to work is worth having. You've spent the best part of a year mulling over why he snubbed you.

The communication between you is not functional and no one can truely comment on what is going on in your relationship because there is so much poor communication and assumption between you that you could both be avoidant of having a conversation because you are both projecting onto each other here were there is nothing really very much wrong at all... You'll not know that until you talk. It's very Schrodingers Cat. Is the relationship alive and kicking or dead - you won't know until you open that box.

However... IMO what is clear is that you describe your partner as very emotionally avoidant/immature. Your relationship cannot and will not grow, develop, progress and reach its potential and be fulfilling if he is this way. You avoid talking about it because he is emotionally immature? Is this what you want for your future? Currently your relationship appears to be bobbing along very directionless. You've been together 5 years, where are you going? what are your joint relationship goals? Marriage on the horizon?

I strongly suspect you are avoiding this conversation because you already feel the answer to this and opening that Schrodingers Relationship box will confirm it and you will have to move on, painful as that is. The longer you avoid it the more your relationship will wither on vine - you have to face this one head on. I know PP said you do not have to rush this, but also, why would you continue to waste time and live with this uncertainty unnecessarily?

I think you just need to take the lead, ask him what time are we leaving for x birthday, shall we have x for tea before WE go?

You've made some very valid points. Thank you.

He's gone out to the supermarket to do the shopping from the list he made after we meal planned together - he's not useless... so I'll have to speak to him later today.

But, yes, communication about the relationship is difficult.

I knew that communication in his marriage wasn't great and they argued/shouted a lot but I've met his ex wife a few times and, tbh, put it down to being six of one and half a dozen of the other. Not blaming her at all but communication clearly wasn't great between them.

I grew up in a very shouty household so I'd rather think about things, work out what I'm actually upset about and then talk calmly. Ive never had issues communicating in a relationship before so I just assumed it would work itself out eventually but he just seems unwilling to communicate at all. It makes him very uncomfortable and he just clams up and deflects. I know he doesn't like arguing and shouting either but his solution is to just keep quiet and not rock the boat but then things just fester.

I appreciate I seem to he making a mountain out of molehill about this issue but I'm reluctant to bring it up because of this. I don't feel confident that a conversation will resolve it so I'm equally guilty of avoiding it now.

If this were the first incident or if I'd spoken to him before and it had resolved things properly, then I wouldn't have hesitated but I've always felt cracks have been papered over with him because we never seem to be able to get to the bottom of something.

He'll apologise and take responsibility but I don't feel I've ever been able to understand the 'why'. And that's kind of how I feel about this.

It's like he says and does the right things but I'm always left with the sense that there's something he's not telling me or there's something I don't know.

Maybe I need to tell him that.

As for how it has gone on for so long, I've had a really difficult couple of years at work and, tbh, that's dominated everything. I suppose there hasn't been time to dwell or thing about anything else.

he just seems unwilling to communicate at all. [...] his solution is to just keep quiet and not rock the boat but then things just fester.

To continue your analogy then, your relationship is drifting without direction because he won't rock the boat. I don't think there is any value in trying to work out why he is like this. You've been together long enough to know that this communication issue won't change so the question I would ask you is: Is there any future here?

Honestly from the outside looking in, it doesn't appear to be a healthy relationship and the problems are significant enough to be terminal. This is bigger that "John's birthday night out" and you already know this. You seem to want to be able to discuss your feelings and put a bit of life and direction into the relationship and can't or won't and there is evidence that this is not a problem unique to you. I think you need to question whether this is the one for you.

Yes, you're right.

I know it's not healthy. It's frustrating gna dmich like a sore that's left to fester, ignoring it is making it worse and not better.

Thank you.

That should say 'and much like'.

Ffs - you are sooo considerate of his feelings.
I wouldn’t have been left behind a first time never mind a second!
You need to communicate together but also make sure he knows leaving you behind is not an option.
My friend had a fridge magnet that said
“Was told I couldn’t have it, threw a hissy fit and I got it”
I’ve always remembered that magnet - not a bad mantra if used carefully! 🤣

What are you scared of?

Whats the worst that can happen if you just ask him a straightforward question about whether you’re invited and if not, why not?

I can’t imagine being in a relationship with someone where this sort of everyday communication is something you have to agonise over. I’m not saying that to be smug or harshly critical of you at all - just to point out, isn’t this a bad sign for two older adults in a fairly serious relationship, that you can’t just ask him what the plan is for your evening?

There is a middle ground. Oh great it’s Dave party nice what time do WE need to be there ?
he says I’m leaving at 8 what are your plans- err why aren’t you assuming I’m not coming I thought it was more or less assumed everyone is ‘invited’ ?

then wait he says I want to go alone - you can ask why? Or if he says I thought you weren’t coming - err why would you think that John aren’t all wives and partners assumed ok for invite or do you want to socialise with your mates alone.

When I met my husband I had a huge social life he didn’t. Sometimes I would say I’m meeting Lizzie and catching up one to one and sometimes I say - are you coming too? Etc it’s a balance.

Be breezy it’s no skin off my nose and also make it clear you like that social side and his mates etc

Maybe..... talk to him ?

@AmIJustMissingSomethingHere

Sorry to say OP, but there's obviously something very wrong. Despite some of the weird replies on here, he clearly wasn't including you in the invite. No partner would say "and what are your plans" when you're supposed to be going out together for the evening. That's just not normal unless you have an incredibly loose and separate way of living that you've both fully signed up to. He's either got his eye on another woman or maybe he doesn't want you to hear about something from another member of the group. Whatever, he's hiding something and I should brace yourself if I was you.

He (and you!) might be able to learn to do better. I used to avoid conflict like that due to growing up in a house with lots of shouting, and might have behaved like your partner in my marriage. My ex-husband certainly did. Although I did lots of reading about relationships before dating again, I don't think it really made a difference until I got involved with my current partner. He is a great communicator and he taught me how to open up, made me communicate - just by being matter-of-fact and asking direct questions, while being kind. I'd lived for so many years believing that if you spoke the words about relationship problems, it would somehow crystallise them like a spell which made them real. But not speaking about them did not make them go away. Anyway, I can't believe how much things have changed now, years down the line with DP. He has taught me that it's OK to say how I feel, rather than second-guessing everything. Is it possible that you and your partner could work together to improve things for the pair of you, too? You really do sound like ideal candidates for doing some couples counselling together - with a focus on improving communication. But if you can't face that, maybe you can at least work on it together.
First step is, you need an answer to whether both of you see a future in this relationship. If it's really over for him then you need to know, and if it's not, then you also need to know so that you can make it work for both of you. If he hates conflict, he may have told himself that he can't be frank with you because he wouldn't want to hurt you. Perhaps you can give him to talk frankly? Something like - "It seems like your feelings might have changed, and that's OK. It's not a crime for your feelings to change. I'd be really sad, but we'd both survive." Just something like that as an opener maybe? Good luck OP. You sound like a gentle soul who needs to understand where she stands.

I married a man like this, he would say to me “what are you doing this weekend?” almost as if he wanted to point out to me that we wouldn’t be doing anything together. It never got any better and now we’re separating.

Are you absolutely sure that last time you DID attend one of these you didn’t have a little moan about it?
Anyway, you’re going to have to ask him directly aren’t you?

@exaltedwombat ask?! Actually query something?! Are you on the mn glue?!

100% what I think tbh. I think it's just crossed wires, she probably didn't even know she was as it's so easy to fall into a 'oh she doesn't wanna go' 'oh he doesn't want me to go' without communication.

I really do think this is just mixed messages between 2 people who don't like to speak about anything that may rock the boat. And you can't be that uncomfortable in a relationship long term it'll wreck you.

So are you ever going to ask him about it?

Just say "oh by the way I'm planning on going too". Why make a drama out of it. If you don't go on this occasion either, he wouldn't be unreasonable to think that you just don't want to go to those events in future.

Ok, are you sure he is actually going to these events?

Yes. He's definitely going.

How do you know for sure?

For goodness sake stop with all the hand wringing and just bloody well ask him what his problem is? You’ve been with him 5 years not 5 minutes.

@AmIJustMissingSomethingHere you say you're afraid to ask as he may not give you an honest answer. So, do you think he's a liar?

@MiaminmooI agree with you, all these threads on MN wondering and stressing rather than have a conversation with the person you sleep/live with , it’s bloody weird. Unless an abusive person surely a question isn’t out of order??
I often wonder how these couples got together or made decisions about buying a house, going on holiday!