(TW SA) 2nd thread (support)…

[ByPinkPoet0]

First thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5497497-trigger-husband-sa-why-cant-i-tell-him-and-why-do-i-feel-guilty

Huge thank you to everyone who has supported me in this so far. If you’ve got this far I really appreciate it. I read all the advice even if it seems like I don’t take it on board straight away. It’s been a difficult time of realisation for me.

I am making another thread so I can continue to post.

This is such a helpful outlet for me I’m so grateful ❤️

Ah the showing affection without making it sexual thing… this argument has been going on for so long. I have even raised this with him several times and his replies are always the same -
‘I can’t help it you’re so attractive /sexy etc’
’now you’re making me feel like there’s something wrong with me ‘
’don’t make me out to be some kind of sex pest / monster for wanting my wife’
and then I feel bad!

What you have said is helpful , I will try and be more clear in what I say. I have said simailr things before (although probably not quite so clearly) and he initially accepts it. He’s even said before ‘well no I don’t like doing it when you’re not into it as it feels wrong’ but that might delay him for a day and then he’s back on in the next day. And eventually if it’s ‘too long’ for him to cope with life he will admit he doesn’t even need me to participate can I just lay there and he’ll get on with it.

Someone said why can’t he have a w and I don’t want to be crude either but he often starts out doing that and it doesn’t work for him anymore , eg he doesn’t finish unless it’s me. So that often leads to sex and I don’t always feel like I have a choice with that particular situation because he’s already ‘going’ as it were and he doesn’t ask. Or if I say no he gets very persuasive and hands everywhere and won’t take no for an answer because he’s already halfway there. The times when I’ve been asleep have started out with w according to him and then he’s needed me to continue.

then adding in the fact that he seems to like it when I’m a bit upset or off the back of a vulnerable chat to ‘make it up to me’.

his whole attitude to sex is very confusing I don’t know which way is up to be honest.

His attitude to sex is confusing to you because you’re a normal, reasonable and kind person. But in a way, it isn’t confusing - it’s consistent. He sees sex with you as his right. He sees your body as a masturbation aid. He sees your enjoyment as irrelevant (“you just need to lie there”).

He has told you outright he just wants to ejaculate into you even if you’re lying there not participating let alone enjoying it. I can’t think of many more offensive things to say to a woman let alone your own wife.

I would like to think that I wouldn’t stay if he cheated no. I know that probably sounds a bit messed up but I think it’s a clearer red line.

I am leaving my husband because he’s been having an affair.
rather than
i am leaving because he is sometimes cross, sometimes shouts and sometimes makes me feel like sex is not my choice, and a couple times he did it without consent

Do you see what I mean ? I know that’s not the right attitude but I’m being honest

But if you were explaining the reasons anonymously, rather than trying to not upset him or cause further issues, the answer would actually be “I left him because he was verbally abusing the kids, emotionally abusing them with the cycle of abuse (explosive temper, big apologies, calm period etc), putting them in danger by driving the car erratically as punishment, sexually coercing me multiple times every day and sometimes sexually assaulting and raping me.”

And you need to try to understand you don’t NEED to justify leaving to anyone. And I’m sorry to say this as I know it’s probably upsetting to hear but at some point you may well be asked by your children to try to justify why you didn’t leave.

It would break your heart for your daughter to end up in a relationship where she is abused (along with her kids), sexually assaulted and raped by a controlling man who met her when she was just out of her teens.

Unfortunately the longer they live under the same roof as this dynamic, the more likely it is that will happen x

sometimes shouts and sometimes makes me feel like sex is not my choice, and a couple times he did it without consent

You're minimising what he does to you routinely. He has raped you multiple times. He sexually harasses, assaults and coerces you. You have no confidence he won't rape you again.

Rape's not trivial or not a 'good enough' reason to split.

Rape is about as absolute a red line as there is.
A serial rapist even more so.

OP, if he routinely 'won't take no for an answer' and 'you feel like you have no choice', then he is a serial rapist. He didn't just rape you once. He has raped you repeatedly throughout your marriage, and then told you he especially likes it when youre upset. He can't get off on his own because he isn't interested in sex, only violent sexual domination of his wife.

He, an older man, picked you up as a traumatised teenager, and has violently raped you ever since.

You have to get away from him.

You can say the words, it's an anonymous forum. He rapes and abuses you, and he's abusive to and around your young children.

Just want to say I’m rooting for you, Pink Poet. You have come a long way in opening up in this forum, and therapy too. You can make the changes you need to make your life better and protect your children. Keep going 💐💐💐

Everytime you guys (quite rightly) point these things out I feel like I’m going to have a panic attack.

it’s so scary to read it in black and white
do you really think that’s why he struggles to get off on his own? Is that a thing?

Thats got worse as times gone on too

If it was about sex he would cheat on you rather than rape you OP.

It’s about complete dominance over you, complete control of you and complete power over you.

This is scary. I feel scared when I allow myself to think about it in that way :(

So sorry. It is scary. I feel scared for you.

I’m sorry OP, I can only imagine how it feels.

But it is the truth and it’s the reason so many of us are so worried about you and your children.

I really think that trying to find a new therapist as soon as possible, one who specialises in domestic abuse or sexual assault, should be a priority.

You are not safe with this man. He is very, very dangerous x

Jesus. So he doesn’t actually masturbate really (that you know of) he just does that next to you as the opening part of what he really wants to do on the occasions you won’t say yes from the start. There’s no way he couldn’t do that to completion, that’s rubbish. He’s a liar. He would just prefer to have sex and he doesn’t take no for an answer because he’s a rapist. If you weren’t together for some reason, distance for work or you actually leave him and he doesn’t have someone else lined up, he would be able to sort himself out just fine.

It’s usually that porn/masturbation can desensitise men to achieving orgasm with penetration if anything. If he can ejaculate with you, he will be fine with his hand - he just has no intention of doing that, because what he prefers (using your body) trumps your own bodily autonomy. He really is a beast. I really hope therapy can help you realise you should not love him! He doesn’t deserve it!

Yes that’s right, it happens quite often.
thank you for your support ❤️

@throwawayimplantchat
i will call women’s aid again and ask if there are any other services they recommend for therapy. Last time I spoke vaguely about SA but when they asked me if I was experiencing DV I said no. I will try and be braver this time

I’ve been on all your threads, OP, but one thing I haven’t said and don’t think anyone else has is this:

Getting drunk and having casual sex as a student is perfectly normal. It doesn’t mean you were damaged or needed to redeem yourself with a traditional marriage and babies relationship with this monster.

The sexual assault you experienced as a student was awful, but it wasn’t your fault and it doesn’t mean you were damaged.

None of your past behaviour was ‘bad’ and it doesn’t mean you have to stay in your abusive marriage to atone for it.

At that time I didn’t feel it was fair to say it’s DV . It’s hard to admit it.

Thank you for saying that 😢 it means a lot
i have a lot of guilt and shame tied up with that I think

im damaged and that’s why I feel ‘this way’ about sex now. That’s what he’s said and I believe

I think he’s been setting the narrative for so long about everything, no wonder you’re confused.

If it’s easier this way, when you ring the helpline, have a list of things - you could just copy from what you have told us but in bullet points - and say that you feel confused about whether this is DV but this is what you have experienced in your relationship to date. I know you find it hard to put a label on things like that, but perhaps getting some validation as well as support from Women’s Aid will help you too.

I will.
It’s hard to get a minute to myself at the moment as he’s working from home so always there

@ByPinkPoet0on your confusion - it is normal, please read my previous post where I explained the cognitive dissonance that victims of SA face (you may have missed it among others).

I am really sorry you are experiencing this and I do hope you find a solution and move forward. I am going to depart from this thread as the more I read what is being done to you the sicker and madder I feel inside.

If you are interested in books, Peter Walker’s complex PTSD and The Body Keeps the Score very well explain the process behind SA trauma and what is needed to heal. Note that the latter book can be very triggering.

Good luck and I wish you the best x

I completely understand and would never want you to read my posts which may be triggering for you .
take care and thank you for all your advice and sharing your story with me, it’s given me a lot of hope x
i will re read your posts again , thank you ❤️

You’ve had some wonderful advice but I just wanted to add my voice to say that none of this is your fault and it is nothing you deserve to feel ashamed about. You are not broken, and you haven’t done anything wrong. You sound like a kind, loving person, and although I know how hard it can be to see it from this perspective, there is nothing that you need to be ashamed of about anything that has happened to you. Your husband is older than you, has had the power balance tipped in his direction, and has said and done many things to convince you that he is right.

He is not right. What he is doing isn’t normal or acceptable behaviour under any circumstances. You are not to blame for any of this.

I think a part of you already knows that what you’re feeling is important and that what he has done is very wrong. I wish I could beam that self belief to you and give you strength; I know how hard it is to acknowledge when someone has you convinced that day is night and right is wrong, because it feels like acknowledging that you were tricked or had the wool pulled over your eyes, and that’s a horrible feeling that can turn your world upside down. Just know that we’re all rooting for you, so many women have read your words and are wishing you well right now, and so many more out there have gone through similar experiences and have come out of the other side stronger and happier. You can figure this out. We believe in you.

OP at University I drank a lot - often to the point I was sick. I also had one night stands (not just when I was drunk). I’m not proud of how much I drank, but I’m not ashamed and I’m definitely not ashamed of the sex. I wasn’t in a relationship, and it was something lots of my friends did too - it was part of living away from home, freedom and finding out who we were. Also I’m not shaming anyone who didn’t do this either!
I say this to let you know you didn’t do anything wrong in your past experiences of sex and you’re not alone or ‘odd’ because of this. I think you’ve been spun a narrative that there’s something wrong with you and it’s your behaviour and feelings that are the problem, but this just isn’t true. You are not the problem here - he is.