(TW SA) 2nd thread (support)…

[ByPinkPoet0]

First thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5497497-trigger-husband-sa-why-cant-i-tell-him-and-why-do-i-feel-guilty

Huge thank you to everyone who has supported me in this so far. If you’ve got this far I really appreciate it. I read all the advice even if it seems like I don’t take it on board straight away. It’s been a difficult time of realisation for me.

I am making another thread so I can continue to post.

This is such a helpful outlet for me I’m so grateful ❤️

Did You share with her these threads? If you feel unable to tell her then that might be a good place to start, or the summary that someone wrote earlier is also good. I think once you get that out, the rest will
come. You’re right, she probably has some degree of training or at least knowledge of these situations, but above all of that she’s your friend and she wants the best for you. There seems to be an engrained struggle to ask for help, or putting other people’s needs above your own. I get that, I also used to think like that and it’s something I learned in my childhood. You’re going to have to try and override this instinct to minimise and not burden others, as this really is a time where you need to offload and ask for help. There’s nothing weak and wrong with that, give and take is a precious thing in friendships and she will be honoured to help you take this burden off your shoulders.

Yep I sent her the thread so I can’t change my mind @hiyapalll

but why is this so so hard. It’s actually the hardest thing I’ve ever done, or thought about doing ever in my life. It’s one thing to share on an anonymous forum or a confidential helpline but I actually can’t bare it. My mind is screaming at me don’t do this, it wasn’t that bad , you will fuck up your whole lives. I don’t look at him and feel angry I just feel … I don’t know, sad . And a bit scared but that is starting to fade now.

I always thought if he fucked up in our marriage I’d kick him to the kerb straight away . But this feels so …. grey area . My head is fried.

Decided you guys were right and it needs to be face to face therapy the online one wasn’t working for me. Got an app Monday with the original one before I freaked out. Still on the fence about the GP . The one I have seen before was really judgey with me when I went to confirm my 5th pregnancy (which ended in MC shortly after). Not easy to talk to at all.

Because right now it's a secret. As long as no one else knows, everyone around you (including him) behaves as if it isn't happening. But the perfect life half of your brain is telling you not to ruin doesn’t actually exist. It exists in other people's imaginations, and your own, when you're in the happy part of the abuse cycle. But it's not real, and the key part to realise is that the facade only has a limited lifespan. You and he cannot carry on like this for years and years. He will continue to escalate and it will become increasingly impossible for you to continue to exist under these conditions. This isn't a steady state you can choose to remain in. It is already getting worse and will continue to get worse unsustainably. The wheels are coming off one way or another OP, I'm sorry. It's far better though for that to be because you take a conscious choice to step away now rather than your health (physical or mental) collapses or he does something even worse to escalate his control.
The option to continue pretending doesn't exist.

I hope she's not also trying to be pushy PinkPoet. Tell her you'll talk to her when you're ready and confident of your privacy. I would do this out of the house when there's no children around. I'm so glad you've told someone x

Try out another woman Gp starting with another problem first.

To be fair, I’d be pushy if my friend sent me this thread, it’s human nature.

Poet, this is what friends are for. You need to get selfish here and stop apologising. Any normal person who heard your story would worry about you. We are all on here worrying about you. It’s ok to ask for help, it really is. You need to start sharing what’s happening to you because this will eat you up. You can’t let your health get to breaking point, because then you won’t be capable of looking after your children.

There was a beautiful thread further down visualising a tranquil, pleasant life. Not one lived in fear. You deserve that life and so do your children.

The GP is only a first step to getting access to services. You need to do this or call Women’s Aid directly, but as you’ve said the level of demand on the phone lines is high. The GP will be able to bypass that queue.

Yes this OP and gently, you need to find your anger.
It’s obviously not there yet & that’s ok, but you need to hate the ground he walks on & be repulsed by him and want to protect yourself and your children at any cost.
That is why it’s so hard at the moment, you don’t feel those things do you?

You cannot possibly say too much to your friend, she has a copy of this thread ? make sure she has a copy of your previous thread
and let her know of your name changes throughout

as if she is not a regular on MN she may not realise that you continued to post on this thread with a different name / names and she may find the ' see all ' button in which case she will only see all the posts by ByPinkPoet0

There is a lot for her to read I suspect she may need to read your threads more than once to take all the awfulness in.

When you do talk to her, do not minimise it.

I agree finding your anger and falling out of what feels like love to you will help you. Easier said than done, I know.

I think because, like the other night, you were woken up by the situation and it seems a separate occasion to what happened before bed and very sudden to your conscious state, you might get the impression it is spontaneous behaviour on his part. I don’t think its spontaneous at all.

What likely happened, is that he heard you say no to being involved in anything sexual before you went to sleep, he then deliberately waited for you to be in deep sleep, and then may have even moved your body into the position you found yourself in when you woke up to him doing that. I think it really is as calculated as that and I know that’s not nice to think about but I believe he may have decided that he was going to do before you even fell asleep. So in contrast to you wondering if you could have done something in your sleep (which we all reject anyway!) I think he may have had a rough plan from when you brought up a sex break earlier that evening.

I imagine that this is probably has told you, or implied that he is a really good man. And he MIGHT believe that himself which makes it more convincing. And you equate his actions when everything is going nicely as evidence of his goodness, and the fact that people in the outside world - who only ever see his controlled public face - also think he is a good man. Plus he TELLS you that he loves you.
There have been years and years of this.
And they came after a period when you did what others at uni did - going out partying, but sadly something bad happened, which should not have done, and he promised to look after you, blamed you for your 'wildness' (which was none of the sort) but even then he actually didnt because you say those early days were nasty, that you split up - so probably closer to his real charachter. So he stopped drinking and partying and piled the responsibility of that onto you too.

so much gaslighting. So much grooming. So much setting himself up as the judge of what was good and what was wrong in how to live, due to his age and experience, and his use of your previous assault to show how he knew how you should behave (stay in, be quiet, be a good girl/ good mother) to stop awful things like that happening again.

your previous assault was the one we are warned about - the stranger danger - the taking risks (ooh, what was SHE doing, what was SHE wearing, what signals did SHE give) this is the nartrrative as it has been until quite recently. Id say really until Sarah Everard, when women started to say fuck this shit, stop blaming women for what evil wicked men do.
and the truth is less spoken. That the hugest number of sexual assaults are NOT done by that boy you fancied that you met in the pub and mistakenly took a risk on, or the stranger that jumps out of the dark alleyway. The biggest number is someone you know. A lover, a husband, a relative, a friend. The fact that they actually had to make a law to say that rape in marriage is a crime shows exactly how widespread a problem it was, and still is. And Giselle Pelicot demonstrates that even the most respected in society are doing it - sadly, given there were websites and forums full of men sharing tactics and photos of similar, its not a one off case.

And as Giselle says - the shame is not yours. You didnt do anything to deserve this, you didnt say anything, move in any way, dress in any way, to deserve this. The shame is theirs entirely. The men had choice. And they chose to do it.

Re your friend, can you message and tell her that you can speak on Monday. Just that, although you understand that she wants to act fast and NOW, you need to make sure you are safe, and her calling, etc, will not make you safe.

On Monday I would suggest trying to go somewhere that you can get a new phone and speak to her on that. I just dont trust this guy. If he looks at your phone and sees she has called when he knows she isnt keen, especially when his hackles are raised already, I worry about it, Can you leave a spare phone at work in the short term.

And also its important to understand that you have been controlled by him, so its important that you control what you do - otherwise you are likely to push back if you think that someone else is trying to make you do something faster than you are able. This is why the DV support wont dive in and try to do anything, but will support you to do things at your own pace - its often small steps putting things in place, and then maybe fast steps. They know that trying to control a woman who has been controlled is counteractive and more likely to make her return. Like an addict - they need to want to change for themselves not because others tell them to, or 'for' someone.

Its normal to feel panicky and scared. The first steps are the hardest and the biggest, and you have done it anyway.

In the short term its going to be hard. Its going to be change. And change is always scary as its unknown, and may be challenging in itself. But you dont know how it could be.

In some ways the blessing is that you ARE married, because if he has been financially abusing/ exploiting you as well, if he is on a high wage and has savings, those savings will be half yours. That house, or another house, could be awarded at an 80/20 split in your favour because of the children, and your potential earnings. If he is a decent earner (and you say you dont get child benefit) then child maintenance will be reasonable too. But this is down the line, and I say it only to assure that the finances/ practicalities may not be as bleak as you fear, because that often frightens women into staying. A DA adviser will ensure that everything is in place for you, that all the child benefits are in your name, all these practical things. If you needed to rent and the house was to be sold - even if he refused - again, all these things can be fixed by groups such as refuge. It doesnt need to be too overwhelming if tiny chunks are put in place piece by piece - and your friend, if she works in healthcare, quite possibly has access to signposting that others may not be aware of.

if I’m being completely honest the anger is not there at all. I wish it was - it would be less confusing. Is this something that takes time?

@NettleTea you really talk a lot of sense. Thank you. I’ve told her I will call her next week when I get a minute because I can’t do it over the weekend. I know she’s going to be freaked but I can’t really speak properly.

the problem with getting a phone or anything really is the spending account I have access to he sees everything on there and any shop he doesn’t recognise or it’s not a usual spend he asks me what it is. I could do cash and think of an excuse .

a lot of the things you say about me/our relationship rings true for me. Thank you. It’s important I remember these things.

It’s really easy for me to slip back into ‘it’s going to be ok’ because it’s easier for me and alleviates the scared feeling.

Just watched a news story about a man who is the first in the UK to be found guilty after his abused partner took her own life. There was footage of him speeding up their car and it was absolutely terrifying. You have a chance to save your own life.
I also follow a lady called Trudi Burgess. She could be an older version of you - beautiful, talented, lovely kids. Her partner was handsome and charming. After years of this type of abuse, he finally went into a rage and broke her neck. She is now in a wheelchair and needs 24/7 care. She was a special needs teacher, so bright, but was worried nobody would believe her. Even after her neck was broken, he rang 999 and said she’d had a fall. It took her weeks to tell a nurse, and everyone believed her. You have a chance to save your own life.
You have seen one shitty GP. Don’t let that put you off. You need help and support and you will get it if you ask for it, but you need to go with your gut. You have a chance here.
It doesn’t matter if it ‘blows’ up anything, if the changes are supported and managed with the proper agencies, you will be able to save your own life.
This man is so dangerous it is beyond words.
If a man was on top of you with a gun to your head and asked for your handbag with your purse, you nodding isn’t to say it’s okay. It’s to save your own life.
Telling your friend is so, so brave.
You have made the next leap.
He doesn’t love you, he’s not capable.

Do you really think so. I think it’s likely he didn’t really sleep as, I think I’ve said before, he says he can’t sleep when he’s sexually frustrated .

I had mentioned to him early in the evening as well about the migraine and how I needed to take my meds for that and he knows they make me sleep deeply. I can’t remember if I mentioned that before. That’s making me wonder if he had that in his mind when he did it .

also, and then I will shut up as need to go and write an essay, in regard his idea of himself as a good man.
I think someone had linked to Lundy Bancrofts 'why does he do that?'

I believe (I gave my copies away) that this is part of the problem - that men who abuse honestly so deep down in their very being, believe that men are superior and that women are secondary beings, designed naturally to support men and raise their children. There is alot of society that reinforces that too.

So they really believe and feel strongly that a challenge to that right to control and have themselves and their needs met is subordination, that they have the right to teach women how to behave and to put down any kind of uprising in whatever way possible.

when you have raised the issue of him raping you, initially he tried to gaslight and say it didnt happen.
He then blamed the 'text book sexual assault' as the trigger for why you were triggered - ie HE couldnt possibly have done anything wrong, not like that BAD MAN who you let assault you (and it was your fault because you were so wild and uncontrolled)
And finally he did admit that he knew, but then turned it all around to be about how awful hearing about it made him feel, how the words you used (and I bet you were really really careful not to use too strong language) made him feel like a monster, and you ended up comforting HIM, and then having sex (which he made sure was good sex because of all that oxytocin/ bonding / trauma bonding)

So does he know its rape? Well he certainly knows you dont want it, but as a man thats OK as everyone knows women gatekeep sex and you can ignore that (this is not true at all btw, but a harmful misogynistic trope designed to allow predatory, stalky, pushy behaviours and nillify the existence of female desire. His attempt to get yopu to consent is more about him not feeling bad and having a 'gotcha' than actually caring if it really is consent.

He is likely really fed up with the fact you are still going on about it, in his mind he has been tolerant and given you a bit of space to talk, he has shown some remorse and the make up sex should have been the last of it. That you are STILL going on about it - well he needs to stop that because its beginning to impact him, make him feel bad, and stopping him having his regular sex, which he really likes. So he has gone with the big guns and the gaslighting again, and has added a layer of humiliation and controlling the narrative to firmly and decidedly get you back in line, and make you stop this rebellious nonsense. He feels justified in doing it, as a man. Because you cannot have a woman dictate something like a mans sexual needs/access as women are there to service men. By going in harder this time, ensuring he got you to say yes, and ignoring everything you had said prior, (especially the comment about 'if Id known you were up for it') he is going to try to make you less likely to attempt that boundary again. Or you will know what has happened.

This is what Lundy teaches, and why he says over 90% of perpetrators will never change, even with intervention. The belief in male superiority, and the right of men to be on top is too deeply ingrained, and too much to their advantage, for them to want to change. They feel entitled to behave the way they do, they believe it to their core. To submit to a woman is seen as a weakness.

Pinkpoet I think it’s normal not to feel angry, you are trying to keep everything together for the children. It took me a long time to feel angry when my relationship was breaking down because of my partner’s affairs. I’d say I didn’t feel anger until years after. My friends kept telling me I was so brave and stoic etc and I was crumbling inside. I got very unwell after a year from trying to privately cope with the stress of it all. That’s why I’m urging you to seek help.

On Monday you need to go to the GP. Take the handwritten note that someone compiled for you earlier and just give it to the GP. You don’t need to say anything. The fact you can’t spend any money is another indication of the control he exerts over you - isn’t this your own account? Why does he monitor that? This guy is a textbook domestic abuser.

yes, it does not surprise me that his control extends to your finances too, and monitoring what you spend. I think you are beginning to see how much control he does exert.

So he knew you had taken migraine tablets that make you sleep deeply.

You woke up two nights ago when he already had you 'positioned' , maybe he was surprised that you woke up, because he has done this before and you haven't? How often do you take those tablets?

No I don’t have an account on my own, that one’s a joint account which we both access . That’s the weekly spending account for shopping, food , kids stuff etc . He checks it regularly

It’d a very important detail to tell your gp you had taken this medicine and you were drowsy. Him
knowing this info would make it very easy to rape you and this was very likely pre-planned.

its nonsense not being able to sleep because he’s de silly frustrated. People are sexually frustrated when they haven’t had it in weeks / months / years. I see many posts from men who haven’t had it for years. Their solution isn’t to take what they want from their wives as they understand what consent is.

I get migraines about twice/three times a month usually. They make me sleepy and sleep deep but hopefully not so much that I wouldn’t wake up?

when it’s happened in the past I usually wake up at some point during . That I know of I guess :(

Agree. No one is sexually frustrated to the point of being unable to sleep after a day or two without sex. And if he is then most decent men would have a discrete wank in the bathroom or wherever not rape their wife.

The sad thing is you’ve been groomed and gaslight by this predatory abuser for so long that you don’t know any other life. Your spidey senses started telling you this was wrong and you’re gradually starting to see him for the piece of shit he is.

Please keep opening up here and in real life. You can do this with support

Yes I do really think that’s what happened. I also think the reason you are finding it hard to find your anger is a response to the trauma and abuse. You subconsciously look for something that can soften or excuse his actions, even to the point of looking to blame the unconscious person in the situation (you) and then the person being asked a question in the middle of an assault who is being pinned down at the time it is asked (you).

Oh @ByPinkPoet0 please,please open your own account it's so easy to do.

Arrange through work to have your wages go into your own personal account and then transfer your share of bills across to the shared account.

I bet he has his own bank account doesn't he?
But you dont have one so that he can track everything and you can' t do things to get away from him - as evidenced by you not being able to buy a cheap burner phone to help keep you safe.