(TW SA) 2nd thread (support)…

[ByPinkPoet0]

First thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5497497-trigger-husband-sa-why-cant-i-tell-him-and-why-do-i-feel-guilty

Huge thank you to everyone who has supported me in this so far. If you’ve got this far I really appreciate it. I read all the advice even if it seems like I don’t take it on board straight away. It’s been a difficult time of realisation for me.

I am making another thread so I can continue to post.

This is such a helpful outlet for me I’m so grateful ❤️

Well that’s part of his ploy to put the blame on you. We all knew how this would pan out yesterday. I completely understand how it’s easier to go with it for an easier life. You will leave him one day, but it will take years. One step at a time. If you do not want to have sex with him, tell him explicitly no. If he pushes it, say you suspect you have PTSD and sex gives you flashbacks to when he raped you. See how he reacts to that because it’s only the truth.

OP don’t be sorry this is supposed to be a forum where you can air your thoughts and get advice because you can’t speak to anyone in real life. You need to work on your own self-worth. Please keep your appointments. You’re on a roller coaster, this is a lot to process.

@ByPinkPoet0 you are doing what you have to do to survive and to make the best of things. He wouldn’t see you blowing hot and cold if he stopped putting pressure on you all the time.

Give yourself some credit, you have been going to therapy and you have only recently been questioning your ‘perfect’ marriage. As others have said things take time. You also came back to this forum, and have done so before, when you are often feeling better about the situation (I.e. post-sex) so you aren’t just burying your head in the sand.

One thing that will seem like a big obstacle to you is not having a picture of your financial situation. Even if you have to keep him sweet at the same time, I think one step you might need to push for now is joint access to everything financial. I imagine he has created a situation where you are dependent on him to take care of things, and if you do choose to leave one day it will serve you well to know what’s what.

It is also worth considering the reason he is resistant to you having access too is not only control but because he has things to hide.

OP it’s clear you have lots of conflicting emotions and that’s understandable and ok. I agree with PP who said you’ve come a long way in a short period of time, from recognising that what you thought was a perfect marriage is actually abusive. That’s A LOT and I think it’s unrealistic of anyone to expect you to suddenly just make a clean break and leave.

I think everyone here wants you to leave, but this won’t happen overnight because you’re still processing and coming to terms with what’s been happening for years.
I certainly hope that, with the right support, you and your DCs will get away from this cycle of abuse.

It’s really apparent from your posts that you are (understandably) in a state of heightened emotion and that moves from feeling happy, loved, scared, confused and distressed and your point of view will change according to how you feel.

You do need support to understand and process this - so do keep your appointments and look for another therapist as others have said. Also try to talk to that one friend - the more you tell people the less it will feel like you have to hide this and deal with it on your own.

No no it’s not YOU blowing hot or cold - it’s him, it’s projection on his part!

I am no specialist but have a read about the cycle of abuse, the whole point is that it’s up and down - and when he’s being nice it feels like an enormous high!

Plus if he was a shit ALL the time you’d have legged it years ago.

Echoing other posters here. It is not at all your fault that your husband is abusive and you do not deserve abuse . Even abusive men are not horrible all of the time. It's part of the cycle of abuse: they blow up and abuse you, but then will be nice and you'll enter a sort of honeymoon period which leaves you wondering if it's all in your head, or whether he's not so bad after all. But then tension will start to build and he will abuse you again, and then he'll be nice etc etc. It's a very well known and established pattern in abusive relationships. It's incredibly difficult to break the cycle and nobody is expecting you to do it overnight, but you must break it, if not for yourself then for your children.

I think as posters we are not trained psychologists with a specialism in dealing with this very specific type of abuse.
We feel like we are shouting into an abyss - you are being abused, your children are being abused, leave!
But OP was met and groomed from a young age by an older man who probably has a history of abuse in previous relationships.
A really good friend of mine has a DV charity of her own. One of the strongest women I’ve ever met, her family are so close, she hid the abuse.
Then the DH started to ‘convince’ her family that it was her who was abusing him. He was that persuasive they believed him.
Until he put her in a wheelchair. But that was physical evidence which could not be denied.
Her children were young at the time and adored him, but they don’t now. He wanted nothing to do with them after, and vice versa.

It's difficult for you. There are no perfect victims and people just don't react in expected ways to abuse.

There's the cognitive dissonance of him being this lovely person and charming exterior, yet a controlling and abusive man. Being trauma bonded to him. And the oxytocin bond.

And the scary big changes that would come with a split or confronting it all head on, as well as loss of face & social / familial pressure.

It's far far more comfortable to underplay the bad stuff .

And you get used to centring the man when he's abusive, everything and everyone revolves around his mood.

But you're here for a reason. Someone happy in the situation wouldn't have started posting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_bonding Have a look at this, OP

I’ve read it and it’s very interesting. Thank you for sharing.
this bit particularly:

Although the victim may disclose the abuse, the trauma bond means that the victim may wish to receive comfort from the very person who abused them.

OP, it's not that people are getting pissed off with you, I think it's more that your posts seem to completely ignore the impact this situation is also having on your dc's, or at least that's how it reads to me. I have no doubt you love them, but I do feel you are either minimising or ignoring that they are also victims in this situation, and while you are processing the realisation of the abuse on yourself, it does not read like you feel any urgency to remove your dc's from the situation.

I know you have 4 dc's but I don't think you have said if they are boys or girls?
You are 100% not responsible for the abuse. But please think about what your dc's are learning about relationships living in this household. If you have girl's, they will be learning they have no right to bodily autonomy, that they are there to serve the males in their lives, that they should appease and walk on egg shells in fear of upsetting them. That they do not have the right to refuse sex and that a man's wants outweigh theirs.

If you have boys, they are learning that their wants are more important than women's. That women are their to meet their needs, that they can take what they want when they choose to, that women are lesser than them.

Your DH is also exposing them all to sexual abuse. You say he will physically grope you and make sexual passes at you in front if them when he "thinks" they are not looking. Engaging in sexual activity in the presence of a child is classed as child sexual abuse and is illegal. And children are little sponges, thay are absolutely aware of what is going on around them and will be learning that this is what a normal relationship looks like.

OP, @Monr0e ’s post above is worth really thinking about. I know you are really worried about anyone in ‘real life’ finding out about your abuse. But with 4 children, it’s highly likely that at least one of them will start displaying at school the sort of sexualised behaviour they see at home. Next thing you know, it’s class teacher and safeguarding officer and possibly social services all involved, and the whole thing is blown up.

or not necessarily sexualised behaviour. One could break down and confide in a teacher after one of his monthly outburst, especially if they are sensitive, or change their behaviour in a way that indicates all in not well at home.
Thankfully teachers are now on alert for abuse after so many failings in the past - and if that happens things will start to move quite quickly.

IF social services get called under that circumstance, and IF you try to minimise or lie about whats actually going on, as well as what might be exposed later - you will lose the trust of the professionals, and then that is the risk that you were worried about when you were questioning contacting refuge/womensaid.

The difference is that if you contact a service for DV, you will be seen as taking steps to protect yourself and, more importantly, your children - even if you are not planning to leave imminently. They will work WITH you and support you, because as a parent (and sadly in this day as a mother particularly) your priority is to protect your children.

However if they get called through a school referral you will automatically be viewed with suspicion - that you have been allowing abuse without seeking support.

And excuses like 'their dad will get a new girlfriend / we will have less money / I still love him/ the kids adore him" will hold short shrift because you are putting your own/his own feelings and wants above them.

And if you tell the kids to never discuss what goes on then that will be 100 x worse, as you will be seen as deliberately hiding things.

So when they are young its probable that one of them will say something after a scary outburst. If they dont verbalise it they will be internalising it, which runs the risk of them displaying the same behaviour. Or they will feel they have no voice/control/ opinion in their own lives (as happened to my friends daughters, one who developed severe hospital worthy/psychiatric inpatient anorexia - its often the only way girls have any autonomy as they reach those crucial years) and the other one who took an overdose after being sexually abused by her brother. And this was a 'naice' family. Well repected professional lawyer husband on 6 figures, seemingly perfect wife, immaculate home.

The kids were late teens before she left. they hold her almost more responsible than him, sadly.

And again, as the kids get older and go to other peoples houses, it exposes how abnormal the relationships in the house are. when they see genuine healthy relationships.

You can sweep it under the carpet when they are little - and little ones are still fairly easy to control, they still take your word as god, and dont challenge. But they will challenge him as they get older, they will disobey, they will go through phases of making shit up, as they learn about it, and is he going to punish them for making mess/ noise/ not tidying up after themselves, answering back/ sneaking out to see people he doesnt approve of /'going wild' in a normal way young people do - is he going to huff and sulk and shout and throw things until they are just scared into behaving in a way he wants and counting down the days when they can leave.

I have concerns that OP will have another child with this man. I know she says that she won't but... he gets what he wants doesn't he.

I'm sure he can persuade to have one more once he decides to put the pressure on. And OP loves being pregnant and having babies so won't put up much resistance. The happiest times of her life she says. And so it goes on...

Great post all round from @NettleTea - and I think this part in particular is especially important for @ByPinkPoet0 to take in, REALLY take in:

"The difference is that if you contact a service for DV, you will be seen as taking steps to protect yourself and, more importantly, your children - even if you are not planning to leave imminently. They will work WITH you and support you, because as a parent (and sadly in this day as a mother particularly) your priority is to protect your children."

So do I think this.

Please OP take this very, very seriously. It helps protect you in so many ways, and is more likely to protect your children from him in the future if/when you leave.

Fantastic post. Completely agree. @ByPinkPoet0 please read this and take this very seriously

Im not wishing to be alarmist to @ByPinkPoet0 I have tried to be the opposite through both of her threads.
I fully understand how hard it is, and I think she has been brave and taken some big steps towards recognising what is going on, even if she really doesnt want to. Ive tried hard to shy away from the 'He's a monster/ the worst Ive seen on MN' because when he is in his lovely cycle (which us old timers have seen oh so many times) it doesnt help. And his behaviour is goddamn awful and destructive, but it doesnt help to make him a special case.

Hes not that special. Hes sadly not that unique in the world of abuse.
Ive been here on MN 20 years and Ive seen plenty. Ive been offline supporting some of those in the real world too. Im not blowing my trumpet here, not at all, but these types of men are not as uncommon as you think, and time and society has caught up with this kind of behaviour alot quicker than the great many men who believe it is their right to rule the roost, be in charge and in control, and demand sex on tap when they want it.

We are currently living in a patriarchal pushback which further enforces this kind of treatment - the angry men who expected to have women has handmaidens, with the benefits of their wages too, but never really got to grips with the fact that true intimacy between partners led to better sex than their single minded porn addled disconnect. Its a sad world.

But the reason I warn that this will come out is because people now are far more aware of abuse - teachers and nursery staff are trained to spot the signs and note behaviour - the young people themselves are far more open than they ever where about discussing their home lives and their feelings, and therapy for kids displaying issues are far more widespead - even if its simply the fact that pastoral care and school councillors exist. And attitudes of zero tolerance exist.And the kids will talk to each other, the shared experiences, once one breaks the silence they will put the pieces together, because they have a bond which is strong, and they look to protect each other. Its a case of when it comes out, not if. And the more kids you have, the more stress in the household, the more changes of one of them speaking out.

@NettleTea is right. I've worked in schools and children do disclose all sorts of things that trigger safeguarding concerns. Children are programmed to imitate the behaviour of adults around them. This is why good role models are so important. And, sadly, this is also why child on child inappropriate touching does happen.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5513750-to-be-angry-at-my-elderly-mother-for-being-in-this-abusive-situation?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

@ByPinkPoet0 here is a current thread in AIBU from a grown up daughter who witnessed her dads emotional abuse as a child. Please read it and decide if you want your children to be saying these things one day about you and your partner.

I think you’re incredibly brave @ByPinkPoet0. The wool has been lifted from your eyes and you’re starting to see the reality of your relationship. That’s a huge shock and adjustment to make, and so very confusing for you.

It’s easy for us to tell you that your husband is a rapist and that you should leave him. But, for you, it must seem impossible.

Keep reading up on the resources you’ve been signposted to, keep in contact with Women’s Aid, keep processing it all. Having read your threads, it’s evident that you’re slowly coming to the realisation that you’ve been abused throughout your entire relationship. Once you can accept that, and say it out loud, you can seek help with leaving.

Sending you all the strength you need. xx

Poet has said, several times, that she has already decided she doesn't want more children and that she has arranged for and started contraception (without her husband's knowledge).

I do understand that all posts come from a place of concern but that is progress and OP has enough going on, and enough to take in, without that being diminished, too.

Great posts from @NettleTea along with many others.
I really hope you can read them without feeling the need to say sorry for anything, Poet.
I say that because it sometimes feels like your need to make apologies overrides absorbing what's actually been said and you absolutely do not need to do that here.

I think we can all see how hard it is for you to talk about but you are being so brave in your honesty.

Love and strength x

It's not without his knowledge. He knows that she is using contraception and he will easily be able to persuade her to stop using it.

Not only that but It's a very likely move to make on his part because it maintains his control over her body. It absolutely fits with his patterns of coercion and control.

I am still reading your replies and thank you for the support and the honesty. I need to read it even if it’s upsetting.

thank you for sharing the thread @FMc208 I will read that as well, interesting to see it from the other side because I worry about the impact a separation would have on them a lot. I am going to call the DA advice line again this week when he goes back to the office

He does know about the contraception now but hasn’t commented

How are you today OP?