(TW SA) 2nd thread (support)…

[ByPinkPoet0]

First thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5497497-trigger-husband-sa-why-cant-i-tell-him-and-why-do-i-feel-guilty

Huge thank you to everyone who has supported me in this so far. If you’ve got this far I really appreciate it. I read all the advice even if it seems like I don’t take it on board straight away. It’s been a difficult time of realisation for me.

I am making another thread so I can continue to post.

This is such a helpful outlet for me I’m so grateful ❤️

This is entirely in your hands PinkPoet. If you tell them the truth in clear terms, they will believe you and understand that it's domestic and sexual abuse. If you speak in couched terms, as you have done here at times, they may not get it. I would suggest making a list in your phone (locked or hidden note) with some key phrases. Think about the key incidents, but also the general climate around pressure for sex/sulking etc, and about the wider control issues. They should be your words really. Planning is good when planning to say things that it's really hard to talk about.

Ah I'm so sorry - I missed the last few updates and @NettleTea has provided you with an excellent summary, as well as so much previous great advice.

Please please don’t minimise your circumstances to yourself and others. What you are going through on a daily basis is huge! You only agree to sex for fear he will rape you. He is also financially and emotionally abusive. Call women’s aid in your own time but please use very clear and accurate language. I haven’t read @NettleTea list and advice but it seems to be on the money and I will read it later as dashing around today but I wanted to let you know you are in my thoughts x

Recommend you look again at the safety plan in a previous thread. This is an incredibly dangerous man who views you and the kids as possessions. If he gets any sense that he is losing control, it is likely he will escalate.

Thanks everyone . Hope you all had lovely weekends x

Its not ideal at the moment as he’s going to be home all next week too so it will be tricky

He asked me tonight if he’s been doing well not pestering me as he’s been really trying. He wants my validation. For example he’s been giving hugs and kisses without making it sexual or making sexual comments. Which has been better over the weekend , he wants me to acknowledge how ‘restrained’ he’s being I guess .

He then tried to initiate by touching me when we were watching tv but I said I didn’t want to and I wanted a break. He accepted this, although he said he doesn’t know how he’ll do it and it will be really difficult. He asked me if my therapist recommended a break and I said yes. I didn’t say how long which is worrying me a bit. Some huffing and puffing and chat about how he can’t help how he is and it’s not his fault, I make him feel like he’s a terrible person for wanting to make love to me. But he has seemed to accept it and gone to the gym instead!

Seeing his attempts at manipulation are grim, but well done on not giving in to them.

It has literally been two days and he is wanting cookies for not pestering and then immediately pestering and manipulation again. I expect his next move will be to decide you should no longer have therapy...let's see.

It sounds like he can't distinguish between (or is deliberately conflating for argument points/coercion):

Wanting to have sex with you

And

Insisting on having sex with you when you don't fancy it.

One is a problem, the other isn't. Can you ask him if he's able to see that these two things are different? And can he say which one of these is the thing you are not comfortable with?

I deal with (in housing) at least one woman a month needing support with DV or DA. Never in my entire career has a single one of them thought her situation was serious, or should jump a queue, or that I wasn’t taking it seriously enough. They all apologise, minimise, deflect, make excuses, have to be told that they deserve help. And many of them are the kinds of situations you would recognise as serious. Police serious.

I can tell you that in my opinion, educated with many decades in this kind of work, you are in a seriously abusive relationship. And, this bit won’t land with you, your husband is a criminal, a real criminal, a proper one, a serious one.

You can’t see it now. I hope you will.

Hello @ByPinkPoet0

What a lot of work you are doing. You’re being incredibly brave & insightful. Well done. I’m so proud of you.

I am a child of an abusive relationship and I watched my brother do similar things to his wife (not visible but signs of concern were there).

I know you say hormonal contraception isn’t great - but since you’re sharing a bed with a rapist who won’t use a condom you are very high risk of him impregnating you again. This is part of the abuse cycle again. You say you love that period because the abuse lessens but at present you are introducing more victims into an abusive home. Please take this seriously. I know he’s he’d off breaching your sexual boundaries for two days but he won’t last long. The abuse cycle is very quick at the minute - you say it’s been escalating to every other day sex whether you want it or not.

You probably don’t know what you feel or know about sex. I can say that I suspect if he was happy for you to wait to approach him for sex - it might take you weeks. All other sex between the you wanting it gap - to him getting it gap is sexually coercive / rape.

He’s abusing you and in turn abusing your children. They too are victims of your sexual abuse as they will be caught up in the cycle of him ‘behaving’ and everyone on tip toes before he breaches your boundaries and puts you back in your place as his sexual victim.

He wanted your approval because he didn’t sexually harass you today. That’s so abusive,

A story from me - I used to approach my partner for sex by touching him say on his buttocks or stroking his crotch. He said he didn’t like that - we should talk first rather than touch first. I hadn’t had that modeled to me - so while I thought I was iniating sex consensually after he raised this I stopped that behavior immediately. If you love someone and respect them you respond to their feedback on their own body.

I really appreciate your honestly , it’s obvious you know what you’re talking about and have a lot of experiences. I need to hear it.

I somehow can believe that what he’s down, once or twice or a few times, is a crime - but that he is not a criminal. How can a serious criminal be the same guy that’s setting up an Easter egg hunt , taking the kids on a bike ride or cooking the roast dinner ?!

He’s such a ‘good guy’
This is probably exactly what you’re talking about when you say the women you work with minimise and deflect isn’t it?!

Thank you for your lovely message. I have sorted contraception for myself now as I know I do not want any more children.

It’s interesting because the ‘approach’ to sex you describe is exactly what he does (with the addition of giving me a ‘hug’ and grabbing my breasts ) and I have told him literally countless times over the years I don’t like it. He does not/can’t seem to take this on board. He even goes as far as to say that initiating sexual contact by talking about it or suggesting it verbally first kills the mood! I have said you don’t need to outright ask me but just read the mood and if you give me a hug or a kiss you don’t need to make it sexual immediately, especially in-front of the children. I’m just tired of fending it off all the time. So tired in general .

this is something I thought about today actually and I find it sad. I actually have no idea how I would like to initiate sex or what is comfortable for me in terms of signaling that I am keen - because I have actually never had to do it! He does it , so frequently , I have never really had the chance.

thank you for sharing that . I’m sorry you had a tough childhood and your household was abusive. I don’t want my children growing up thinking this is normal x

How can a serious criminal be the same guy that’s setting up an Easter egg hunt , taking the kids on a bike ride or cooking the roast dinner ?!

How would an abusive person ever get into or stay in a relationship with anyone if they were 100% abusive all day every day?

It's precisely this mix of normal (not exceptional, just normal) 'good' behaviour and the abusive behaviour that keeps their partner confused but hooked.

And anyway, you know his lovely family man behaviour is dependent on you not challenging him on real issues in the marriage. He'd just as easily spoil the time together for everyone if he felt you needed putting in your place.

A non-abusive man doesn't need cookies for not being pushy about sex.

if you give me a hug or a kiss you don’t need to make it sexual immediately, especially in-front of the children. I’m just tired of fending it off all the time.

So he's previously done sexual things to you in front of the children? This is really wrong, OP. It's disturbing. They shouldn't be exposed to that, it's abusive.

Yes I do see that, but it makes it very confusing and conflicting.

Nothing overly sexual infront of them - more just the ass-grabbing /hugs that lead to boob squeezing when he thinks they’re not looking

Criminals are normally portraying themselves as good or great people when they are not carrying out their criminal/violent activities. That is why a lot of their friends and family have trouble seeing what they are really upto.

Yeah , no one would believe me either. Can’t see even my own family believing it. They’d say ‘that sounds like he gets carried away but look what a good guy he is….’

He knows this. He knows due to his position in the family/ with our friends he has the control

I actually think if I ever found the strength to try and leave 90% of my family and friends would try to persuade me to go back ‘for the kids sake’

If he cared about them not seeing sexual behaviour as children, he wouldn't do it at all when they're there. You're doing the right thing taking steps to protect them x

They wouldn’t say that if presented with the actual truth though. And if anyone, if explicitly “he raped me from behind while I cried and was heavily pregnant”, tried to persuade you to go back to him then they’d be extremely fucked up and have huge issues of their own.

I’m really proud of you for saying no and standing your ground despite his emotional blackmail (saying you’re making him feel bad, huffing and puffing etc) which is yet more manipulation. Thats a huge breakthrough and something you should be very proud of x

@ByPinkPoet0 you mentioned a while ago that you had a friend who doesn’t like your husband. Can you start by talking to her?
I do agree with PP that if you told your family and friends more of the details, they wouldn’t encourage you to stay. I wonder if some of them do suspect that not is all well (not the specifics necessarily), but don’t like to comment as you seem (on the surface) really happy.

Yeah , no one would believe me either. Can’t see even my own family believing it. They’d say ‘that sounds like he gets carried away but look what a good guy he is….’

Street angel, house devil is a saying for a reason.

I think you're wrong though. I think if you actually said the words "he raped me" at least some of them would be shocked to the core and believe you.

Not if you soften it or minimise, though.

But it's in a lot of people's self-interest to keep the status quo and preach "nuclear family" and minimise abuse, even rape. It doesn't mean they're right and you should put up and shut up.

yes I’m still waiting for a good opportunity to speak to her but I will try and open up

Its incredibly hard to word things in that way when I’m prone to minimising myself

@throwawayimplantchat thank you for saying that ❤️

I am anxious about tonight though. It’s been a few days and the tension is building.
I don’t know what to do

Maybe have some stock phrases ready so that you can parrot them rather than having to think of new things on the spot?

”I do love you but I don’t want to have sex at the moment”

”I appreciate you waiting until I’m ready, it makes me feel loved”

”Thank you for listening when I say no, it makes me feel heard and that’s what I need at the moment, not sex”

I’m NOT suggesting it’s healthy for you to love your abuser, or that you should feel grateful he’s not a raping you by the way, I’m just suggesting phrases that could help you stand your ground until you’re ready to take further steps to leave x

You don't know that. They actually might. They might say "well maybe he got a bit carried away because you weren't 'looking after his needs'. Not all families are supportive.

My family insisted that my abusive ex was lovely and had done nothing wrong. They're not my family any more. There are reasons why abusive men choose particular women who are very empathic. It's a common theme for those women to have unsupportive and undermining parents who make excuses for them being treated terribly.

I’m so sorry you went through that.

I did say the same thing though, I explicitly said that if they did tell her to return to him after knowing that they would be extremely fucked up and have huge issues of their own.

I was careful to add that caveat when I wrote the post as I know some families / people in general are not supportive x