Friend not disclosing she has kids she doesn’t see.

[99flake99]

How would you go about this? I have found out that a friend I have (reasonably close) has children she has never spoken about that live with her dad. She has had more kids now with someone else.

I don’t know how to take this, whether I should bring this up. I know there could be many reasons why it’s happened but I can’t help but feel a bit wary, it’s a massive thing to hide. Also I find it hard to understand why they haven’t kept any contact at all with them.

How do you know she never sees them? Or video calls with them perhaps? How do you know they are not in her life in any way?

Perhaps what happened is traumatic and painful and she doesnt want to share it.
Perhaps she has told people in the past and has been met with judgement and 'advice' and she cant deal with that again.

You are not owed her personal information.
If you dont trust her then dont let her babysit your children but you cant ask for information she has chosen not to share.

If she wants you to know, she will tell you

The bigger question, do social services know she has had more children? This might be why she has hidden this. Do you know what school her current children go to? I wouldn't care if my friend dumped me for doing the right thing - Safeguarding children.

You can go onto your local council website and find an email address for the local children's welfare services (MASH), and you can also contact their school. I wouldn't want this type of person in my life. I would want to put the safety of these children first, above caring how 'uncool and snitchy', I might look.

I am confused. What exactly are you hoping to achieve by starting this thread? more speculation of your friend or validation of your suspicions?

Why don't you go and have a private chat with her? Or you have decided whatever she said is of no consequence since you have decided to not believe her?

Maybe she walked out on them and never looked back. Men do it all the time.

wheres the evidence that it isnt???? wheres the evidence for my ex other than his word against mine yet apparently everyone should judge and shame him 🤷‍♀️ just not when it’s a woman.

You seem to be projecting wildly all over this thread. It's really unpleasant.

And I wouldn't be friends with a man who did that either.

Op, contact the police to do a Claire's Law (I think that's the right one) and find out if you need to keep her away from your kids. That's the safety aspect dealt with.

When you know, talk to her. Explain how you came by the information so she knows it's out there. But also say that she doesn't have to explain, that you're not asking questions, but if she wants to tell you then the first part is already done. And mean it! Don't ask again.

I completely understand how it may make you feel differently about her and only you can navigate it. But you do need to know that you only have a snippet and the reality is likely to be quite complex and there are many reasons on this thread as to what could have happened. Her reaction in the moment is not a good guide - fear could be because you found out she did something terrible or it could be because it reminds her of an abusive ex. You can't read into it. Ultimately we make judgements every minute if every day and once you've checked your kids are safe you can just go with your gut.

Best of luck.

You’re quick to judge, would you be so quick to offer an apology if it turned out that you were wrong? That there was a complete valid reason and no need for social services involvement?

Would you put her through hell having her life questioned and have the guts to look her in the eye and say ‘I was wrong’.

Would anyone here that is condemning a woman that they don’t even know?

It's pretty odd behaviour to have children that you NEVER talk about, and actively take steps to conceal their existence.

Also ironic you're on MN under the guise of offering advise when really you're just satisfying your need to be sanctimonious to others.

Maybe she had mental health issues which are now addressed. Maybe she left a manipulative man and he told lies about her .
Maybe she had a drink to drug problem in the past and she had since sorted her life out.

If the friend is a good person and a good mum now. I’s tell myself it must have been extreme circumstances .

None of your business. But how awful for those kids to know their mum didn't want them, but has other kids. How absolutely heartbreaking that must be for them.

Why do people do this? Why do they repeat bits from posts they don't agree with and quote them in that disbelieving way like they're some sort of Oracle?

Classic Mumsnet

if that was a close friend of mine I would find it odd and perhaps slightly hurtful that I’d not been confided and ultimately whilst I would respect the decision she had made not to tell me, I would also have to accept that she might not see me as the friend I thought I was. To me, this is a very “live” situation, whereas if this was something that was over and done with while before we’d met, I’d not think too deeply about it - unless there is something sinister going on of course.

I think the OP needs to give more context.

She hasn't answered how she has found out the information but has said she is the only person who knows and then says it's easy to see for yourself... well if that was the case, surely other people would also know?

The truth is, it's nobody business and if the woman doesn't want to share it then she doesn't have to. If the OP is uncomfortable then create a distance and don't leave your kids with her.

It's a sad day when people are automatically assuming the children have been removed, abused, social services involved and suggesting the OP should now contact social services and do a Claires Law and now a suggestion the mum didn't want them - wild!

The only person who can answer your concerns is your friend so that's the person you need to speak to and get an understanding of the situation. I'd suggest showing more empathy and less nosiness when talking to her though.

All it takes is 1 malicious allegation of parental alienation by an abusive ex and a judge being stupid enough to listen to an "expert" about PA and mum often loses all contact with her dc. There's been a couple of cases in the news recently where a dodgy "expert" has been proven not to be anything of the sort yet her reports have caused multiple mothers to lose all contact.
I also know several abuse victims who lost custody to their abusers because of false claims of PA.
Never judge until you know the facts

I think how you found out is important. To be honest, if she didn’t tell you and you say NO-ONE else knows, this sounds like you’ve been stalking your “friend”. if so, why were you doing that? Did you have any reason to think you couldn’t trust her and so were digging into her past? Or should she be worried about you because it’s not normal to do a background check on our friends, especially ones we have known for 2 years. I just can’t think how you would have accidentally found this out.

As for her, look at it like this. She meets you, doesn’t know you from Adam, doesn’t know if you will even become friends. Talking at the school gates - you ask her how many kids she has. She makes a split second decision about whether to tell you, a stranger, about her 2 kids she doesn’t see. Not surprisingly, she chooses to only say the ones she has living with her. 2 years on and you’re now established friends. How exactly do you expect her to suddenly tell you that actually she has 2 more children she’s never mentioned? What about if her younger children don’t know? And risks that information getting back to them from someone else if she tells other people.

Leave your children with her or don’t. Judge her or don’t. These are your choices to make. But you hand no right to demand of her that she explains herself. She could be a shit mum who chose to walk away or abused them, or she could be a mum in constant pain because her ex has managed to block her from ever seeing them, and the only way she can get through life is to pretend to the world they don’t exist. Or something in between.

Ultimately none of us know all the ins and outs of our friends lives. Many things are private. It doesn’t mean they are any less of a friend, or that we can’t trust them.

I believe you can make a Sarah’s Law request if you are concerned about your children. Or you could just not leave them with her again and pull back from the friendship.

I have full time care of a family members child that was removed by social services for extreme repeated neglect and domestic violence and parental drug abuse. They've been with me 6 years and both parents don't talk to us or their child. Their choice. I often wonder if she tells people he exists or not. I was actually told that in the future if I ever discover that they've become step parents to some one else's kids or babysit for people etc then i Need to ring the social workers as they pose significant risk.

There are so many posts on here about it being fine to leave "friends" looking after your kids and I always say you never truly know if people are safe. Keep your child care circle small. Even if the people are fine you never know who else might turn up at their home.

I would just ask her about her kids. Just say in person nicely that you've found out ABC and you're sorry if you missed that information somewhere. She can then explain further if she wants to.

Are you sure they are her biological kids and not children she was a step parent to in the past?I had a friend who met a man with 2 small children (he was a widow) and they were together for 5 years - she loved those boys like they were her own. When he left her for another woman he effectively cut my friend out of their lives and she never gets to see the DCs anymore. I think she tried for the first few years but over time it got more difficult as he poisoned them against her. She's still devastated about it and it hurts her to talk about it.

I just answer Quite A Few and am vague.

It doesn't matter how unusual it is, it's still none of the OP's business. It's not magically your business just because you're a bit nosey.

I don’t know much about SS, but surely if she was abusive lost her DC then they would be involved with her current DC?

It seems like you aren’t very close friends if you don’t feel you can ask her about this. You’re leaping to conclusions and standing ready to hear the worst and judge her. If you really are a good friend, you should ask her very gently about it and listen to her. Respect how she feels - she may not wish to tell you for fear of being judged…which has kind of been proven on by your reaction here.

I know someone who had 2 children and left them with their father, then went on to have 2 more children. They were also left with their father. Both times it was due to domestic abuse

She won't talk about it at all so I can't say why but I would imagine that it's due to shame and (hopefully) the pain of not having seen her children or grandchildren for pretty much their whole lives

If your friend has had more children that she is raising then I would doubt that the first set were removed from her due to abuse at her hands

Personally anyone who abandons their existing children and goes on to have more isn’t someone I would want to be around.

And if this was a man nobody would be making excuses for him. Nobody.

Anyone who is a decent person would be doing everything to be with the children they already had, not creating more.

I’d be happy to confirm it’s not my business by ending the friendship.