DH’s friendship with woman at work is killing our marriage

[Teaandbiscuits123456]

DH and I have been together for over 20 years and have two dc all grown up now. DH has made a very good woman friend at work and although not an affair it is very cosy iykwim. Private jokes, DMs at all hours and weekends, breaks spent in each other’s company.
I told him how this made me feel anxious and upset and his response was that that’s just how it is and he can’t help feeling like he does but insists it is just friendship. That just about broke my heart and has made me question where I figure in his life. They’ve only known each other for 2 years.
Knowing all this I’m worried I’m starting to think I might be falling out of love with him almost as a way of self-preservation if that makes any sense?
All the time they are working together I’m not sure if we can get back what we had even though I wish we could. I just don’t know what to do.

Yes, it's the inverse of the 'He's just not that into you' saying.

If a man is into you then he will be doing everything he can to show it.
If a man is doing everything he can to show it, then he is probably into you.

I think - occasionally - a 'short sharp shock' can be effective. Something along the lines of: 'Just what do you imagine this looks like?' Or, ideally, another man telling him that he is a Grade A idiot who is about to blow his life apart. Perhaps one of his colleagues will step up, but you can't count on it. They probably imagine that their behaviour is invisible but it will be blazingly obvious in the workplace, so other trouble might be coming his way soon...

I also find it useful to take scenarios into a non-digital context. Digital devices make certain patterns of communication easy and familiar that we would find bizarre if they were played out in non-digital life.

Consider this, would it be normal for a colleague to be writing letters to your home address each day? Calling around to your house each day? Throwing pebbles up at your bedroom window and calling 'Hey, OP'sDH, it's me, what are you up to?' Or phoning your landline in the evening? That would be seen as bizarre and stalker-like behaviour, but it is effectively the same as his WhatsApp pinging all day and all night with her messages. It is an intrusion into the private space of your marriage and not on.

I don’t know of any marriage counsellor who would fail to ask about the rest of the marriage.

No. Read what I wrote again.

That’s a really interesting take on it. Thanks for that, it’s something I will be thinking about a lot.

His response alone would seal my decision
What a awful thing to say

Yeah, I don’t think simply talking is the problem here.

Well yes. Whether its cause or effect is irrelevant. Because in either case, the answer is not to transfer your attention and affection to someone else. It’s to confront the issue and if it can’t be resolved, end the relationship. Behaving like this is just prolonging the agony and only benefits DH because he has the best of both worlds.

Neither do I, but they wouldn’t be couching it in the terms you used.

this is so awful. He needs a jolt to realise what an emotional affair is and ditch this damaging friendship before he loses you. Can you show him this thread? Can you ask him to Google what an emotional affair is? Can you ask him to Google what it does to people who are the married partners left behind? Had a lot of experience of this in one way or another and an emotional affair is never nothing but corrosive and cruel, thete is a lot that people do in their minds to justify their misplaced hormonal feelings and easier/new affections. It’s never right to the other person in the marriage and it’s never ok. Can you tell him this is marriage ending territory and what does he want? He seems to think emotional affairs are ok and he seems to think making you miserable is ok. Neither of which are. Show him this, and all the other messages, that is banks of women telling him this is not ok and not how you treat your wife. X

Oh is that what's going on! I couldn't make head nor tail of that assessment.

I'm sure lots of people do. In reality it must be daunting, as it isn't just a big ta-tah: you have to manage your feelings on seeing the evidence "in the flesh."

On the other hand, I'm not sure forcing them both to confront that genuine distress is necessarily the worst thing, so long as it isn't a total loss of dignity.

It is a really insightful take - and reinforces my feeling that being on phones/SM/whats app etc all the time is a bid chunk of many of the ills in society atm - even if it is just sitting in a cafe together and not talking, just silently scrolling, which you see all the time. It builds all the wrong relationships not the right ones.

I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.

Even if she isn’t interested in him romantically (maybe even he isn’t “into” her) no friend of 2 years (of any gender!) should come before your spouse.

If it was a young 30 year old male colleague and he started reliving his youth and going out every weekend, you’d be annoyed. I see this as in the same field, but with the added potential romantic threat.

My husband worked remotely then started working with me at a large head office. He knew I was leaving that role (the office did not!) but for 8-12 weeks, we’d go for lunch together if we had time and meet for coffee etc. I told him when I left that he’s not to sit having 121 lunches with female work colleagues, grabbing a coffee downstairs to take back to desks is ok, but not sitting for an hour having a chin wag. Any of that with a man and woman inevitably starts to teeter on a date vibe and over friendly. The job I moved to, i had really good male work friends I got on with, but I’d not sit having coffee with them in the kitchens, walk to get lunch just us 2 to the local shops or sit and have lunch just us 2 either. I’d happily sit in a group or chat next to the coffee machine for 5 mins then move on. My husband and I bumped into MY male work friend food shopping once and my husband said he immediately got the “i like you” vibe. I said it wasn’t anything to worry about as “look what I’ve got at home” and reassured him we never spent time one on one. My husband didn’t mind us DMing memes at work, but he could look any time and if he’d asked me to stop I would have.

I’m an in-house lawyer and unless one person is being an overbearing pest, there is literally always a way to create professional distance, even if someone is in your own team and sits next to you. He’s choosing not to change his behaviour due to your concerns. (PS I have cancelled many work trips due to work and other commitments and he can too if he’s not needed. I get the impression he is probably oversharing with this woman and blaming you!!)

(PS I have happily married male work friends or very young male work colleagues I get on with and can sit next to at work in the office, but it’s not the same as sitting having personal 121s, not working)

Think if he says he "can't help how he feels" (I'm pretty sure I have NEVER said that about a male friend, and I have some very longstanding ones) and the "friend" is simultaneously apparently "holding onto his every word" then I'd surmise they're into each other.

But you're right, it is perfectly possible to put professional distance between each other. If you choose to. If you don't, well...

Yes that’s a fair observation, I’ve not had chance to read every comment.

I suppose my point was, even if there was 0 reciprocated romantic feelings, heck even if it was just a work friend you didn’t agree with - no friend of 2 years should come before your spouses feelings. Just all sorts of wrong!

Hi op. Unfortunately i was in your shoes last summer going through exactly the same thing and ultimately my husband was having an emotional affair and more with the work colleague
He did exactly the same unfortunately, downplayed it despite my concerns, lied, gaslighted and continued to prioritise his chats with that woman. They all do the same sadly.

Please be strong and nip this in the bud firmly now (well done for sending that text) and stand your ground.

While mine didn't exactly cheat, he was disrespectful by showing his attraction to other women a lot. And then say "Why are women so jealous?" while claiming he had no idea why I was upset with him.

About 5 years ago, I finally had too much and started therapy to rebuild my self-esteem. He continued denying doing anything wrong, but I didn't back down this time. Counseling helped him begin to see the effects of his behavior on me, and several years ago he finally broke down, confessed he knew his flirty crushes were wrong and that they were hurting me, but he had always used resentment and downplaying his behavior to justify it to himself.

He apologized so much. Just put his arms around me and held me for hours while we both cried. He took full responsibility and has continued to try and repair our relationship and rebuild my self-esteem. He stopped paying attention to other women, and treats me better since then than he ever did in the previous 40 years.

My husband has done so much to earn my trust again, although I will never have the assurance I should have. I won't let myself have 100% faith in him or anyone else again. I will protect myself now, and the trade-off is worth it.

It was wrong, and I stayed too long, but he told me we could start over and he would make me feel happy and cherished. He's kept his word.

But I keep that photo, to remind me of when I finally realized my value. When I finally loved myself enough to risk letting go of a second-class marriage, and eventually got what I wanted all along. Most importantly, I know I would never wait to be chosen again.

I am enough, and so are you.

And yet, at least at the time I posted that, not a single other person had asked OP about the trajectory of the rest of the marriage.

I used hyperbole to make this point, but the point stands.

Thank heavens you were on the thread.

Healer, heal thyself.

Indeed - and yes my position is similar - I basically got a grip and decided to put myself first and prioritise myself far more often - as you say though I never trust anyone 100% anymore these days .

This 100%.

In addition to finding out that the 'conference' is fictional, I would start digging a lot deeper into this if I genuinely wanted to stay with him but ... you are on diminishing returns. He has already chosen to treat you badly. You can't really come back from that. I think I would be telling him to move out anyway, once the 'conference' has come and gone. Him saying he would 'see what he can do' is frankly ridiculous and if anything proves that he still doesn't get it.

Getting legal advice is a good idea but don't tell him yet. See what he does regarding the 'conference'.

If you find out the conference is fictional, divorce him anyway. The trust is gone and he clearly feels full license to do exactly as he pleases irrespective of how it makes you feel. You can't grow old with a lemon like that. You won't be able to look yourself in the face.

@Teaandbiscuits123456 its really fucking shit. You are not going mad, you know it. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

All the apologists - read the room, or, just read the OP's posts, eh? My god.

OP, I really hope he can sort his shit out so you can work on your future together, it sounds like that's what you want.

Someone has linked my thread, so I wont bore you with my tale. My DH did what he had to, eventually, but it's left a legacy and it has a nasty aftertaste. I'm still not 100% - perhaps not even 80% (or even 50% on some days) on what the rest of MY life looks like... can we ever be, after something like this?

For me, I had to remain focused on me and my life. It had very little to do with HER. She owes you nothing (her morals aside, obvs.).

I'm angry today. Fucking furious on your behalf. Fucking idiot men.

I will be thinking of you.

Or he's going to say, "I couldn't get out of it, sorry. Can't be helped. I must go. It's work after all."

I know what I think is more likely.