Might need to leave home tonight with DS, big fight with H!

[DexterMorgansmum]

Hi I have another thread on here that spans months where I have been waiting and biding my time till son finishes Nat 5s this May for us to leave home, or to ask H to leave - H also said he might leave in August. Things have been strained with some almost normal like days where conversation is pleasant, but some ugly scenes now and then
Think H thinks when push comes to shove we love him and hence we will stay - we do love him as family (with him 23 years) but I dont think we can stay anymore

Today, he had some sort of blow up verbally with DS15 (turns 16 this weekend !, and we are in Scotland) and he asked DS15 to stop rolling his eyes and show respect, he needs to study 2 hours a day etc the usual - suddenly I heard him from upstairs say to DS to leave home and come back when ready to apologise -its 8pm pitch dark cold and lonely at this time of year outside in west lothian outside edinburgh

I went with son which angered H further , we walked around the estate once and came back as I could not walk anymore in the cold - I promised him if he gave a fake apology for now, we could discuss what to do when back upstairs warm and dry
So, my son does not want to wait till summer hols and wants us to leave now - he has already texted his friend and said his father's body langauge was physically threatening toward me , his mum, when I said I was going to go out with him and would not let him walk around alone (instead of siding with H on the too harsh punishment)
I am thinking of either taking a taxi tomm morning and getting a hotel room near DS school as Nat 5 assignments this week and he cant take more than one day off I would have thought at max - or to wait till saturday and then we leave. Hotel till funds run out and find an air bnb /spareroom co.uk/ rental. as early as possible. I have told son if there is any intimidation by H tonight I will call the police , I almost think DS was planning to just stay out as late as he dared tonight if I had not gone with him, and how safe would that have been for him???
I cant let this go on.....

Even though I have known for a while H leaves me with no choice, my mind is still extremely confused about taking this step , now instead of slowly over the summer.
Any advice pls ?

Well not Brit by birth , but by citizenship since 2016. So H better be worried about SW finding out what he did on tuesday. The SW who posted on here said 16 is still a minor.

And I didnt want the divorce rate in India STILL BEING bleeding 1% to be my excuse when getting Tough Love on here,

Either I am spectacularly unlucky and got the one out of 100 abusive Indian husbands or there are a LOT of unhappily married ppl still together, 'back home'

Where ever home really is at this point. Cos clearly I am too much of a coward to belong to the brave 30percent divorced in Scotland

OP sounds exhausted and is taking a break and might not see this but if she were my friend this would be my advice:

1. your son is being abused by his father. His dad might be ‘playing nice’ right now but he is being pushed and pulled by his own father. His safety in every sense is paramount. It’s more important than schools and grades. Being in his lovely home is costing him dearly. He is trauma bonded to his father and his behaviour is now mirroring his mum’s. He waits for the storm to pass to get to steady ground.
2. he is, for whatever reason, being a bit lax with some of his work right now. I’ve worked in private education and a student of 15 is already going through such change. Nothing good comes from a father bullying his son to do work, his mum babysitting to make sure a piece is finished, or a teacher giving out instructions like the ones given. It is a sticking plaster. Dial down the pressure. Even if it means adjusting where you feel he may get to, or might achieve, he’s got many years ahead of him. I’d rather a student was well and getting a few lower grades than be tormented and getting top ones. I have seen far too many students buckle under the pressure.
3. you need to see a solicitor, and soon. Go on your trip as planned. Students who have decent family time, a few days away, a fresh perspective and a break fare better than ones under house arrest.
4. this isn’t rocket science but you need to leave this hideous man. He’s an absolute lunatic, and I’ve seen many a father like him in action. One father actually got a calculator at parents evening once to inform me of what he was ‘paying’ me pair lesson. As a husband, he’s had enough of your life. You are nowhere near 50, you have a career and a brain. This man is destroying you, he’s not your friend, he’s your enemy. Don’t treat him as such to his face, but you need to start making proper plans around your safety not around your son’s education. Yours and his safety comes first. Speak to Women’s Aid. Get yourself proper legal advice. At least enjoy your break in London.

@DexterMorgansmum don’t be hard on yourself. Everyone that’s got divorced has been on their own difficult journey. It is difficult but it’s worth it.
I married into an Indian family and the way your husband is acting is almost stereotypical esp the educational expectations. Let me guess … he wants your son to be a dentist or a doctor? It’s great to have these aspirations so don’t get me wrong here but your husband has gone beyond being a pushy parent to being an abusive one.
please don’t lose heart, there is no deadline for making the decision divorce however once I did, I was kicking myself why I wasted so much of my best years on my ex husband

Ok you are worrying about a lot of detail here but I’ll answer since you asked.

These grades on the Edin website are the minimum that he can apply with, not necessarily what he needs to get an interview or an offer. Interviews are mostly given out on his Higher results and his UCAT.

Most Scot medical schools assign applicants a score for academic performance, add UCAT ( in varying proportions ) and then give interviews to the top X percentage. Better grades mean more points.

Every applicant will have a personal statement and work experience, thats necessary for the application not sufficient to get an interview.

Edinburgh are really NOT saying “ you will have a competitive application with BBBB at English, maths , biology and chemistry from a private school” . They are just not precluding someone who has B in one of these from applying. Sometimes candidates have a disaster in one paper.

TBH if your son is struggling to get a B at Nat 5 in science and maths subjects, he is really not going to get As at higher, Bs at AH ( or 3 As for Oxford or Cambridge ) and enjoy studying medicine at uni.

So he should aim for better than AAAABBBB . Its hard to go from a B at Nat 5 to an A at higher, especially in maths and chemistry where theres a big jump.

If he’s struggling to get a good amount of As at Nat 5 he will find the workload in S5 to be even tougher. Remember that most Scot med schools wont consider resits at higher or a mix of qualifications , he needs to get the grades at one sitting.

So Im afraid that for medecine at the most competitive unis, resits are NOT an option. It’s now or nothing.

And he wont get into Oxford or Cambridge with AAAABBBB for sure.

Plus the school are saying he's capable of getting better grades .

Its not about aiming for another 3 marks to get to 70%, he need to aim for a secure A.

So for ALL these reasons, he needs to work NOW on his Nat 5 and forget UCAT and WE . That’s simply a distraction.

I dont think I said anything about 9 Nat 5s? Maybe that was someone else. Although in fact some state schools allow 8 and some candidates will do 9. But that’s irrelevant to med entry as Scot unis usually only consider the best 7.

Re oxford and Cambridge applications - the time to consider if thats an option is when he gets his higher results and UCAT score in 18 months.

He cant make a 5th medical school application anywhere in the country, the max is 4.

He cant apply to Glasgow , Edinburgh , Dundee , St Andrews and Aberdeen - thats 5. Let alone another English one on top.

However as I said before, I think UCAT and UCAS is a distraction for you and your son right now. He just needs to work on his Nat 5s as the school has advised, get his best possible grades ( not what he reckons is the bare minimum ) and keep his options open.

I hope you enjoy your holiday and manage to get a flat and legal advice sorted out.

Don't be surprised if your H puts a huge amount of effort into schmoozing DS into moving back in with him just to punish you. Abusers will go to great lengths to use the DC to hurt the other parent. He knows how to play the good guy and he will probably be able to play that role very effectively for a long period, all the while trying to brainwash your DS into believing that you are the problem.

If it happens, keep reminding yourself that your DS will see through him eventually and you will be the one who has a healthy relationship with him in the long term.

Take him on the holiday. He can study a few hours in the evening. Life doesn't begin and end with exams.

@Sowhat1976 I agree. At some point this young man’s wellbeing comes first.
A well balanced life is vital.

Dear @DexterMorgansmum
You sound exhausted and your son sounds confused.
Take the break as a chance to reset yourselves, and more importantly, your resolve to leave this marriage.
You and your son deserve more.
Wishing you all the best x

Yes the holiday will do you good and your son can do work when he’s away.

I think it’s important you have a conversation with your DS that lays no blame on your stbxh but just focusses on the fact that living together is not healthy and you will be arranging separate accommodation asap but he doesn’t need to worry and can spend as much or as little time with his dad as he wants etc etc

i also think you need to go into school and speak to head of year etc as he may need pastoral support and they need to understand the pressures he is under from his dad

@DexterMorgansmum I finally escaped my emotionally abusive husband last year. A lot of what you're writing really resonates. I'm happy to share my story and how my children and I are doing now if you think it would help you but would prefer to do it privately. DM me if you'd like to chat away from the public gaze.

If not, I completely understand. Your overwhelm must be excruciating right now. Sending you tonnes of strength and solidarity 🌻

I reiterate exams can be retaken. Doesn't matter what grades your DS gets - he will succeed no matter what in the end.

You need to focus on keeping the both of you safe.

Good luck for tomorrow. I hope that you have a good time with your family who sound to be very supportive.

How are things OP? @DexterMorgansmum

Hi Sorry for not updating sooner, thanks for all the support on here during last week, it was one of the worst weeks ever in a long time - I have had to grapple with my periods not stopping for three weeks in a row this week and have been to my GP and been referred back for some gynae tests, this has been weighing heavily on my mind - how a Uterine or Ovarian cancer diagnosis might affect my plans. Will be good to get the scans and tests done with and get to know what is happening either way and replan/plan accordingly.

I am along with DS back to the leaving over the summer plan - he has a lot going on with Nat 5s now to do anything till late May by way of a big change. last weekend started with him saying lets do london some other time, he had made plans with friends this week and studying - I also think his dad had expressed to him that he wanted some time with him on his birthday too.

He ended up having a good birthday with lunch outside with his dad one day, then with me the next day - both of us individually taking him out for shopping etc.
His father's good cycles followed by days of sulky verbally angry behaviour continues though.

Hi OP, good to hear from you. It’s not wise to allow your DS to be in the driving seat over plans he’s too young. There’s unfortunately no substitute for you taking charge of the situation.

Hi OP,

Thanks for updating. Sorry to hear you're having gynae trouble. Hopefully it isn't anything sinister.

It is a shame you didn't manage to put some distance between you, DS and DH. It might have given you a bit more clarity and time to reflect on what is happening within your household.

I have been in your shoes so I do understand. So I also recognise this quiet period before the next blow up, it's not if, but when. It is a worry that things have gone back to seemingly normal after what happened. This sort of thing escalates as your DH pushes to see what he can get away with next. Your DS might be in the middle of all this again and sadly it is going to shape his future.

I urge you to take control, don't think you're doing your DS a favour by going on what he wants. He won't understand all the things happening to you that he doesn't see and hear. You are the adult and you must do what you can to get yourselves out of this toxic household.

Much easier said than done, I know. I know it is unfair that your DH gets to stay in the family home. Let him get on with it. Starting again is liberating, you cannot put a price on peace of mind and a calm atmosphere. I started again with 2 armchairs and a camping table and it's the happiest my own DS and I had been in a long time.

Please don't wait for the next event and be back to square one. It ISN't ever going to change, only get worse.

Good luck OP.

I hear you all thanks

H knows we were about to leave two weeks ago and has been much nicer to DS at least since. Had conversations with DS asking him what support he needs for the exams, apologised if he has been overbearing etc, but yes ....it is the nice part of the cycle and not real change in all likelihood

I am starting individual therapy for myself this week, found someone online earlier this week who is also nearby and hopeful this will bring clarity and strength of decision making .....

A recent face off the two of them had was

H : Can you wash your own plate please, or at least stack it into the dishwasher for washing after throwing food remains into compost
DS : Nah cant be bothered too haha
H: Well then can't be bothered to get you the 100£ basketball hoop 10ft you asked me for this birthday (was going to order it that day) haha back at ya.
DS: WT? I was just joking about the plate?

Spoke to H afterward and he said he was going to get the sports equipment but did not appreciate the lack of respect yada yada - I do wish DS would be a bit more circumspect when talking at times, clearly his father is always going to be the respect demanding traditional dad in his own eyes and not the 'bohemian hippy' dad as H calls my parenting style.

Op. You don’t need to update this thread, or find reasons not to leave, if you are just deciding to stay and it was a moment of threat.

Thanks, I know I don't need to, Quite frankly as you have guessed, I too wonder if come summer I will put leaving off to when DS leaves to Uni in 2028 - at the very latest I know that H plans to go leave the country for retirement to cheaper Isles while I intend to stay close to DS, I don't think Parenting ends at 18 - I am 47 and still very close to my own mum

If nothing else, I know we will have physical space , 1000s of miles of it, from H in a couple of years and it is a waiting game till then - he really is unpleasant to live with a lot of the time - I also wonder if his much awaited retirement will change him back into the laidback easy going guy he passed himself off as in the early years.

I just didn't want to leave the thread without an update where I left it last week in case there were others in the same boat as me trying hard to make the same decisions.....this isn't over, but at the mo we are safe and okay, tw....

@DexterMorgansmum

As far as DH and the sunny isle, remember that you cannot trust anything he says, no matter how long or how loudly he's saying it. So I wouldn't bank on him actually going.

DS knows how his father is. If he chooses to make a cheeky remark when asked nicely to do something, that's his decision. And his dad snapping back is the result. I wouldn't get involved other than to tell DS "You know that's how dad is. Mess with the bull, get the horns". Obvs if things escalate or become verbally abusive you may need to intervene.

You know, stress and trauma can really play silly beggars with our bodies. Your messed up cycle could be a result of the extreme stress you're under, or at 47 could be perimenopause exacerbated by stress. So don't think the worst.

As far as when to actually leave, I can see the reasoning behind not letting DS steer the boat. But I do think that you will know if the time to leave really comes and that if you have to override DS's 'preference' you will do so.

So, your husband asked your son to wash his plate or at least put it in the dishwasher - a perfectly reasonable request.

Your son, upon hearing said reasonable request, decides to act in a rude and provocative manner.

You sit there and allow your husband to be disrespected. When your husband responds in the same manner as your son, you use this as an example of how horrible your husband is?

Throughout this thread, you seem to be enabling your teenage son, who will one day soon likely be preoccupied with friends / girlfriend, instead of prioritising making your marriage work.

The poor man would be much better off without the both of you. You appear to be a perpetual victim, with no ability to self reflect and take accountability for your role in this mess.

You should think seriously about sorting this out legally before he decides to pop off to his isle! Get finances sorted out or you will be left with nothing..... time is a-ticking!

But your son did sound rude re the plate ?
I don't think that conversation shows your husband in a bad light.

I don’t think this man is going anywhere in a couple of years.
While he is an adult, after everything that’s happened the DS is not helping with that remark.
The OP is sticking her head in the sand.

Hi OP. I am your age and was a child of a dysfunctional home.
When I went to uni and lived away from home everything changed for me and was the first time I experienced feeling relaxed and safe with other people. To this day, I have little contact with my parents (now elderly) and only do it out of duty. I am trying to say you have your last chance now to make it right for your son, please be brave and leave with your son. He needs you to provide a safe environment. In my case the "good" parent was my dad but he enabled my mother and the abuse continued non stop. After going through therapy as an adult I could see how it was not acceptable, it had devastating consequences for me. Like yourself my dad had issues with boundaries and cannot differentiate between abuse (pushing, shouting, calling name, belittling, constant put you down) and simply giving out because the child is not doing choses (plates going on dishwasher and being rude about it). He would find the same excuses as you do because it was easier for him to stay. There is always a reason to stay: the exams, a medical appointment, changing a commute, etc. They are excuses. You son now doesn't know any better but once he leaves home, I can tell you, he is not coming back. Think about it, you have your last chance now. Please make it right for him.