Might need to leave home tonight with DS, big fight with H!

[DexterMorgansmum]

Hi I have another thread on here that spans months where I have been waiting and biding my time till son finishes Nat 5s this May for us to leave home, or to ask H to leave - H also said he might leave in August. Things have been strained with some almost normal like days where conversation is pleasant, but some ugly scenes now and then
Think H thinks when push comes to shove we love him and hence we will stay - we do love him as family (with him 23 years) but I dont think we can stay anymore

Today, he had some sort of blow up verbally with DS15 (turns 16 this weekend !, and we are in Scotland) and he asked DS15 to stop rolling his eyes and show respect, he needs to study 2 hours a day etc the usual - suddenly I heard him from upstairs say to DS to leave home and come back when ready to apologise -its 8pm pitch dark cold and lonely at this time of year outside in west lothian outside edinburgh

I went with son which angered H further , we walked around the estate once and came back as I could not walk anymore in the cold - I promised him if he gave a fake apology for now, we could discuss what to do when back upstairs warm and dry
So, my son does not want to wait till summer hols and wants us to leave now - he has already texted his friend and said his father's body langauge was physically threatening toward me , his mum, when I said I was going to go out with him and would not let him walk around alone (instead of siding with H on the too harsh punishment)
I am thinking of either taking a taxi tomm morning and getting a hotel room near DS school as Nat 5 assignments this week and he cant take more than one day off I would have thought at max - or to wait till saturday and then we leave. Hotel till funds run out and find an air bnb /spareroom co.uk/ rental. as early as possible. I have told son if there is any intimidation by H tonight I will call the police , I almost think DS was planning to just stay out as late as he dared tonight if I had not gone with him, and how safe would that have been for him???
I cant let this go on.....

Even though I have known for a while H leaves me with no choice, my mind is still extremely confused about taking this step , now instead of slowly over the summer.
Any advice pls ?

You are not a shit mum, far from it. You are trying your best in the hardest of circumstances and I can’t imagine what you are feeling right now. A trip away seems like valuable breathing space at the moment and maybe a chance for you and your son to talk about things as well as let your nervous system relax a bit.

There are many routes to becoming a doctor if that is what your DS wants - good exam results are important but so is health and happiness, far more important I would argue!!!

OK, Will go ahead with holiday if he feels he can still manage the work teachers gave and promises to stick to his word, as many of you feel it is inconsistent parenting to now cancel it

I have completely lost ability to make firm decisions on my own, but I am happy I stood my ground today with H and said you abused your child on tuesday and SW finding out is imminent, I could see he was shell shocked despite the laugh and bravado - he truly believes he was being a good parent and I am too indulgent by 'walking around with him and kicking up a fuss over it'

You are putting so much pressure on your son by involving him in your marital relationship and expecting him to study at the same rate and achieve optimum results. His mind must be whirling and he will find it hard to focus. I think your expectations of him are too high at the moment.

Thank you @countbackfromten for the kind words

Thank you @WallaceinAnderland , where have I been pushing him to do more or expecting more from him? - I have said to the teacher and asked him also to share with Head of re our conversation - that we have been rowing (me and dad) a lot past few weeks specifically more so on the prelim prep and results (you can see my threads from November this theme) - so that probably was part of DS's problem at the moment. And we can only feedback on teacher's suggestions to him up to a point, we were rowing over how to get him to study all week and that probably had a very counterproductive effect

I am just happy that he doesn't seem to vaping, underage drinking, on pot or going too far with a girl.

The teacher also said they all seem very hormonal at this age and it is a challenge for the school as well given all these upcoming vital exams.

“These emails since the prelim results are unfortunately not being handled well by H and he has been trying to force X hours of study evening on DS but DS is choosing to do pre-med entry UCAT prep , Brighton med work exp modules, and A*s only on the three subjects needed for pre-med, though we have tried to explain to him Nat 5 all 8 subject scores matter”.

This makes no sense at all.

Your son needs to STOP doing anything at all on UCAT now, he's not sitting it for 18 months !

Ditto the online work ex modules - he can do that in the summer.

He doesn’t need an A1 in any of his Nat 5s, he needs to aim for As in all of them ( or at least 7/8). Thats where he needs to put all his energy right now.

Why is he thinking of applying to pre med? If you mean gateway to medicine courses , they are aimed at widening access applicants so your son wont qualify.

If he is thinking of applying to medicine you’d be mad to move out of Scotland now. He has some of the best medical schools in the Uk on his doorstep with NO FEES.

We are all rooting for you and your son @DexterMorgansmum. I honestly think some time away and a chance to relax and be with your loved ones will do you both the world of good. You are both living in a pressure cooker type situation at the moment and that really does grind you down.

Plus if it helps, I’m a doctor who had a slightly non-traditional route to getting here, as I said there are many routes in but life is so much more than a career and you and your son deserve to be happy. He is so young and so many things can change.

I am willing to bet that you will both thrive with a change in circumstances!!

Thank you so much @countbackfromten , well that's the London holiday defo back on then, it's doctor recommended !! Lol

@AndyMcFlurry , I just used the term pre-med loosely as in calling the choice of Chem Bio Math for S6 and Chem Bio Math English (still deciding Latin or compsci) for S5 as his pre-med line up.

Maybe he will qualify for widening though as one parent not sane and other parent impending breakdown :-)

Yes agree we have fine med schools here - albeit loads here do put in Oxbridge as fifth choice alongside Edin, Glasgow, Dundee/St Andrews, Aberdeen

It’s not helping this complex situation that school is involving parents in students’ work.

When I said I would make him do it even if I had to cry, I was trying to emphasize I had asked a 100 times over the last 5 days 'do you need any help prepping for Business assignment , shall we over pricing, employee retention (teacher confirmed this one isnt required), product range, promotions using open source data, look up competitor data' , he said he had it all in hand - teacher now says its short by 400 words at the very least and needs a few hours this evening. I meant at this point, thats all I can do to get him to do it if he refuses that he has more work to do on it as I am against harsher discipline than taking the phone away for 2-3 hours.

The teacher should be having these conversations with DS not OP and DH.

OP needs to flag the home situation as the teacher clearly did not get the memo.
Teacher needs to stop emailing OP and DH as that is fuelling the tense situation.

Parents cannot make 15 year olds study.

@AndyMcFlurry , yes agree re Brighton modules and UCAT, we got the timing of that early as a friend said start now (his daughter is in Edi Uni med now) but clearly what applied to his daughter has not worked here. My bad, and I took full responsibility to the teacher - He has been doing some hours of that last week instead of the assignment due this week that he said was all sorted.

I want to say more on this but I don't want to derail my own thread
I am from a working class background and now wish I had stuck to state school for my son just like I went to - I thought I would do what my sister did for my nephew and again I now question myself. But I want to keep my focus here on leaving H, the school is doing what it does best, show that fee paying schools get 90pc or more of the class above As - and they know which pupils genuinely can't get there. They mean well.

I will move out, that is all that needs to happen now to sort this, will be back with an update next week, thank you all for your advice, MN is addictive as always

I didn't say you were pushing him, I said putting pressure on him. He should not really be involved in all the discussions and decisions about escaping. He's still very young for that kind of responsibility and he shouldn't have to be keeping secrets from his dad.

This is an adult problem for the adults to sort out with whatever appropriate professional help and guidance they need. He should really only be told when actual firm plans have been put into place and he can be told exactly what is going to happen and reassured that the adults have it under control. That leaves him free to concentrate on his studies like the rest of his peers.

@DexterMorgansmum

I think perhaps the 'tears to guilt' remark was said without thinking. I'm sure you didn't mean it. Encourage him, yes. Perhaps a little loving 'scold' about responsibility and the pride of doing well. But do NOT use guilt as a weapon. My estranged husband did that to me and our DSs and it can destroy your self worth. Our sons are grown now but both of them have a great deal of resentment towards their dad and I suppose some towards me too for not being strong enough to stand up for us.

And I agree with PP that you need to work extra hard to keep DS away from your marital problems. It won't be easy since it appears your DH's attitude towards scholastic achievement is at the root of quite a few of your arguments. Just keep reassuring DS that you 'have it all in hand' in vague terms and encourage him to get on with his work.

I know DS isn't in favour of this but would he actually have more 'peace' to study if you were to leave now? I know he likes his big house etc but if he is constantly being pressured by his dad mightn't he (and you) be better off in a different place (locally)? Consider too that his dad's constant pressure may be a bit reason why he's not studying perhaps as much as he should. Subconsciously, he might be 'rebelling' in the only way he can by refusing to knuckle down. And he probably doesn't even realize it.

As far as 'that man' goes, grey rock is the way to go. Except any time he mentions moving out. That you should encourage with a calm "Yes, you probably should". Then change the subject or walk away. And of course if he starts in on DS you should tell him that you and he will discuss it 'in private'. Then don't.

And get to a solicitor ASAP. Find out what divorce may mean to you financially. And whether or not it is to your advantage to file first. You can rest assured that if he has half a brain he will be seeking legal advice himself. And please, start keeping track of ALL family finances and assets. He now knows you mean business and he may very well start hiding or spending marital funds and assets that should be considered as part of any settlement. And as a PP said, do not say anything about him 'taking what he wants' from the house. One of the first things my attorney (US) said to me was to say nothing, write nothing, and sign nothing wrt finances no matter how trivial it may seem. Because chances are it will come back to bite you on the bum.

totally agree..
and as for leading a horse to water but can't make him drink? That sounds like your DH speaking.
We gave him the opportunity teacher.. .he just won't take it.

Sorry to say this OP but he has definitely NOT been led to water as he doesn't currently have a safe or encouraging environment at home and its amazing that he is managing to achieve the marks he does achieve under the circumstances.

He is trying to study and cope with an abusive father constantly berating him. Punishing him by sending him out of the house into the dark and cold.
He has pressure from teachers. But that letter is telling them that his parents are fully supporting him but he's not having it.

I was trying to say in my previous post that the next 12 weeks are absolutely crucial for your son and he needs positive encouragement and support. I don't think your DH is capable of reigning in his personality to accomodate that.

You need to be much clearer to the teachers about how much he is struggling with what is happening. If he is 3 marks off an A1 he is more than capable and its not a case of telling him do better.. its a case of telling him keep up the good work you will get there. Or you could find him flipping out and completely refusing towards the end of the next 12 weeks.

Sorry OP. I know this is a very difficult situation for you. x

Thanks @AcrossthePond55 and @DuckbilledSplatterPuff , yes I know think I could have been clearer on the call, although the queries I put here before the call from him - I never sent to him - I just put it here as Indicative points of discussion - it was only a verbal chat not a written list from me - I did not use the horse water analogy

I really am feeling a bit useless now though. Will try and give him a pleasant holiday with cousins and all next week and do better as a mum, thanks. Yes will see a solicitor . Will update next week, very grateful.

My job involves working with the most vulnerable people in society. I frequently help people (not just women) flee their homes because of domestic abuse & work closely with the police.

I've been reading this tread and have become increasingly disturbed at what you're saying OP. All I can say is that you need to listen to what PP, including those who've escaped DA, have said. It's imperative that you get yourself to safety. You also need to secure yourself financially. I suspect his threat to move abroad is just posturing, but you need to have access to your joint savings in the form of a statement which shows how much you have at the point of you leaving. If it diminishes you will have the right to ask where it went & demand it back in your divorce petition. However, I would advise withdrawing your half ASAP.

Agree that you should keep your plans from your DS. Not only is he a minor & you're the adult, he's conflicted as his father is doing a good 'job' on him & he's likely to blurt out your plans. It's probable that he loves his father but hates his behaviour & is susceptible to his manipulating him into betraying your plans.

Also as PP have said you need counselling. I think someone has already mentioned the 'frog in boiling water' to you. When you've been abused for so many years (and, it seems at least 10 years - probably more) you get worn down, get used to blaming yourself & a counsellor will help you to get perspective.

Good luck, stay strong & know that you have lots of MNers supporting you. Please let us know how you get on.

Please speak to H/T, or Head of Year or Pastoral Lead at the school and explain, in detail, exactly what DS' home life is like. Talking to one subject teacher won't do anything to help your situation, or to help your son. You say that the school us already aware if a previous incident but that teacher might not be or simply didn't have it in mind during this conversation.
Take the poor lad away for the week, he can take homework/revision with him but you both need to get away from the charged home atmosphere.
Don't allow H to dictate what happens in your life or DS' life. Stick to your plan and get on that train on Saturday. Stop vacillating! Take charge, be decisive and purposeful.

PS exams can always be re-taken.

My DH's mother left his father due to DA a week before he took his O'levels. Understandably, DH didn't do so well at his exams. However, he went on to get a 1st class degree, had his own business of 3 catering outlets & did fine.

His mother re-married & was very happy.

His father cut off all contact with his 3 children (who sided with their mother) & died a sad solitary man.

You and your son are getting WAY ahead of yourselves here. And I suspect that’s adding to your stress and confusion .

Your son does NOT need to decide on his S6 subjects now.

I assume he needs to choose his S5 subject soon but thats easy, just Eng, math, biology , chemistry + one other subject that he likes and will be an easy A. It doesn't matter which one and anyway most schools have a little flexibility after results day.

He doesn't need to choose his S6 subject for another YEAR.

He doesn't need to decide on his UCAS application for 18 months. You and he both need to learn a lot more about it nearer the time, as you are not well informed - you can’t apply for 5 medical schools and Dundee and St Andrews are two choices. And anyway he cant decide where to apply in “ Oxbridge” until he has his UCAS score on 18 months. He will get good advice nearer the time from the school.

Your son doesn't need A* You and your husband needs to stop hounding him to get grades that dont even exist! He DOES however need to get better than AAAABBBB in his Nat 5s. But hassling him or moving schools or taking him away at Easter wont help that. He needs stability .

THAT IS THE ONLY THING HE NEEDS TO FOCUS ON RIGHT NOW.

Your own head is all over the place as well OP. You need to stop worrying about S6 and your sister’s marriage and social services and getting your husband to admit he’s wrong and phoning English lawyers and air BnB and trying to get a council house.

I know I’m being bossy, but you need to ONLY have two priorities

1. your own mental health and well being
2. stability for your son

So get a 2 bed private rental furnished flat in Edinburgh where you can afford it. You’ll be about 1400-1500 pcm at least but Remember you won’t be paying towards your mortgage or bills on the other house . Assume your husband will pay nothing in child maintenance.

Your son can get the bus to school. The paperwork to rent isn’t hard. Your friend can help you so you can move in a few weeks.

So no, not a one bed ( you on sofa isn’t sustainable ). Not an air BnB. Not a refuge or a hostel and not a council house. Just a straightforward private rental.

Consult a solicitor in SCOTLAND and do exactly what they tell you. If you both agree to the divorce you just need to agree on finances.

Get a counsellor for your own mental health. Stop playing one up man ship with your DH . Go grey rock and keep everything as calm as you can for your sons sake until you move out.

Of course, if he gets violent then you get out and call the police, that goes without saying.

You are NOT useless!! You're being pulled in three different directions at the same time: yours, DH's, DS's. Your head is probably whirling and no wonder!

This is all a bit 'fresh' in your mind. I know the problems have been around for a long time, but your determination to finally end things is new.

You need to find just one direction to be pulled in, and that is your direction. As a mum you will naturally consider your son's wellbeing as that is intrinsically bound up in your wellbeing. The decision you make may not be the one he would like you to make, but that is often the way with parenting. And in the end, it is usually the right one for our children even if they don't realize it at the time.

See that solicitor, find out the 'realities'. Will I be able to keep the house? Will I have sufficient income for our needs? What amount of 'assets' might I walk away with? Will DS have a say in where he lives/how often he visits?. That will take one load off your mind: "What are the practical and financial aspects of my future?". Once you know that the chances are you'll be able to find your direction and take decisive action. And DS's direction will follow. As for 'that man' his 'direction' doesn't matter. He can live in a mansion, he can live in the gutter. All that matters is that he will no longer live with you and DS.

Hi Andy @AndyMcFlurry , this sentence in your post in reference specifically to scottish med entry

He DOES however need to get better than AAAABBBB in his Nat 5s.

Please can you clarify what you meant, this is what Edin Uni website on A100 standard entry says dear Andy

The Higher grades you need to be considered for an offer
These are the grades most applicants needed to receive an offer in recent years:

• AAAAB by end of S5 and BB at Advanced Higher in S6

Required subjects
The grades you use to meet our entry requirements must include the following at Higher:
Chemistry
two from Biology/Human Biology, Mathematics/Applications of Mathematics or Physics

National 5s required
You must also have the following at National 5:
Biology at B
Chemistry at B
English at B
Mathematics at B
We accept Higher Applications of Mathematics at C in place of National 5 Mathematics at B. Offers are conditional on S6 performance.

My understanding is that lets say he has AAAABBBB (although his Bs were off As by 2-3 marks and we have the three months ahead of us to work on that) at Nat 5 and say AAAAB at S5

Obviously his application competes with an AAAAAAAB lets say (and not sure where you get more than 8 subjects at Nat 5 from, max is 8 with state schools at 7, only GCSEs down south go into 9/10 subjects?) at Nat 5, Higher being the same say. They may still both get interview calls if he is higher on UCAT , work experience in personal statement e.t.c - albeit not saying he should not aim for all As ofc if that is what he wishes to aim for and is capable of as his teachers keep saying.

Also, yes it is Chem Bio and Maths or Physics for AH, for Oxbridge.

I have only the one kid and all that I have is for him if wishes to go to Oxbridge. This wasnt the purpose of my thread so I am going to step back now for a week and update next week, thanks everyone who supported and advised and held me up, this has been a very particularly emotional week and I have cried a lot today.

THank you @AcrossthePond55 , I need to follow this sensible advice.....

Sorry @AndyMcFlurry If there are some nationalist loyalties in the application line up that I did not match up to.

We are neither English nor Scottish - we came here in 2006 to England off the back of Dsis and BIL moving there in 1999, then moved to SCO for Hs job (i transferred jobs too then) in 2008. Son only knows scotland as home

I didnt mention the race and ancestry and birth nation as I wanted us to be judged by White British standards not Far east Asian (there mentioning it now, Asian Indian Hindu, and religion too apparently) as I do not think its fair H gets a free pass in our community for being a 'good strict asian dad' for 'forcing' his son to study, because he (and I) will be judged by local Social worker standards here, My own conscience judges me by those standards and DS expects us to go by the standards of the culture he has lived in for 16 years, he does not even know anything else. Plus on top of which I can see from my friends in the community here that all of their husbands are gentle souls so culture schmulture for H trying to use Indian parenting in the 1980s as his get out of jail free card.

Completely outed us here but wth. I am still SO ANGRY about tuesday afresh. the other wounds were old and healing