Wife doesn’t want sex/find me attractive

[Tristezza]

Would appreciate any thoughts or advice.

Both very early 40s, been together 20 years. My wife has virtually zero sex drive and has been that way for 6 or so years. We have sex once every 6 weeks or so and I feel like she does it only that often to try and keep me sort of happy in that department. I’d like it more like twice a week or at very least weekly. We do have 2 young children (youngest is 7) and life is chaotic like everyone with young kids, but we have enough time and energy so it isn’t that.

I have given up trying to instigate sex most of the last year as I feel like I’m just nudging her towards something she really doesn’t want to do, which is a horrible thought. She says she just has almost no sex drive, but says she enjoys it when we do occasionally do it. I can’t expect her to want to do it more just as she can’t expect me to want to do it less, and neither of us would try to tell the other how to feel. So it’s just a mis-match of sex drives I guess?

On top of this (and maybe a contributing factor?), I feel she doesn’t fancy me at all. She never says or does anything to give the vaguest hint that she finds me physically or sexually attractive. The first time I brought this up and said it’s obvious you don’t find me attractive her instinctive response was to blurt out “well I don’t find you unattractive”, which I found pretty hurtful, but she seems to think was just poor choice of instinctive words.

She says that she basically doesn’t find anyone attractive at all. Not quite asexual but almost sounds along those lines from the way she describes it.

For balance, she does often tell me what a great person I am and that I’m a super dad, both of which make me feel good. And she undoubtedly loves me, and she would do anything for me (and vice versa). She’s a great wife in almost all other ways, which is why I want to find a way through this.

But I now feel like we’re two good friends but nothing much more. I’ve lost most of my desire to maintain a romantic affection and do the things you’d otherwise want to do with the love of your life, so don’t have a strong desire to go on dates, cuddle her, hold hands etc. For me it feels hard to maintain that romantic affection where there’s no sexual connection and no attraction (on one side).

Not really sure what I’m asking for here by way of advice. Is this a common thing that at this stage in life you might not particularly fancy your husband any more, and that libido drops off a cliff?
I feel too young to live with a very limited sex life and feeling not fancied by my other half - I’m just over 40, not just over 80! But she’s my wife who I love and I’d never want my family to break up so I don’t know what the answer is - just accept it?

You may not think you're being coercive, and clearly you are a decent man and really don't want to be coercive, but you're treading on the line. You're having sex with your wife that sounds - to me and clearly other PPs here - unwanted by her.

Maybe your wife is OK with this for now - she's likely done the emotional calculus and thinks she can handle the compromise until hopefully she gets her libido back. Many many people make this calculus in marriage, especially women. But research is starting to show that unwanted sex can have insidious and severe costs psychologically, because it is an invasion of your physical autonomy. The fact that you are agreeing to it makes it all the worse psychologically. This is particularly true for women, who are the ones being penetrated

Unwanted sex is also much more common for women than men because women are acculturated to prioritise men's wants and to put themselves last. Their anatomy also means they can more easily be the physical recipients of unwanted sex than men.

But what many people who agree to unwanted sex don't really understand until it's too late is that all it does is thoroughly kill sexual feelings for the partner. It's like being forced to eat chocolate cake: most people love chocolate cake but if you're made to eat it when you don't want it and this happens regularly, the thought of chocolate cake will become an aversion. And aversions are REALLY hard to turn around psychologically, because now your body is militating blindly but violently against the assault on your psyche.

Mismatched sexual drives is very common in marriage, and going on other threads here, there are many women too who have the higher sex drive and feel disappointed and upset by the lower libido of their partner. But being disappointed and upset betrays a sense of entitlement to another person's body, which is not OK. And all it's going to do anyway is lead to unwanted sex, and deepening of the sexual chasm to the point it can no longer be bridged.

To avoid this horrible situation, the higher drive partner must let the lower drive partner set the pace of sexual encounters. If you don't think you can handle that pace, the honorable solution is to leave. Not to pout or sulk, or withdraw non-sexual physical affection, or get depressed because you think you're unattractive, or have an affair, or punish your partner in whatever way. Just leave.

Both good points.

I do think though that capitalism has royally f*cked people over. Both parents having to work long hours just to keep a roof over the family’s heads and food on the table.. hardly ideal for a flourishing sex life.

Hmm. Does it depend to some extent on what the frequency is and whether it’s reasonable?

if the lower libido partner wants sex once a week and the higher libido partner wants it every day, then I’d say the higher libido partner should lower their expectations.

if the lower libido partner wants it once a year and the higher libido partner wants it once a month, shouldn’t the lower libido partner try harder?

For goodness' sake, what is the point of posting on a thread you haven't read? What do you get out of this?

@IcyPlumShaker

Some questions
Are male sex drives really this much higher than women’s? Or do they want sex because society tells them real men want sex all the time?

This may well be true but before I came on MN I was not aware of how many DW were equally not getting the sex they wanted from their DH’s. I also believe that society has conditioned women to tone down their sexuality and that women who openly enjoy sex are stigmatised by men and women. (See regular comments about the sex people on the sex board)

How much of this is a recent problem? Or is it largely caused by late-stage capitalism making us all knackered all the time?

The study’s shows that we are having less sex than our parents. There NATSAL study found that the younger generations are having less sex. There is currently a sharp increase in STD’s amongst the over 50’s who have made good use of hook up sites .

It will be interesting what impact AI will have.

We have only his version of events. Men do tend to over estimate what they do in the house.

What do you get out of commenting?

Have you taken her out recently? (Organised, funded, booked and childcare sorted) This would make a huge improvement to my marriage and always falls on deaf ears.

Sorry you and your wife are going through this OP. My husband and I have experienced peaks and troughs re. Sex. Him a few years ago due to a stressful job. Me last 12 months on and off after my Dad died. I have unintentionally been pushing affection away and have lost desire. We've spoken recently and I've realised I need to make more of an effort to be affectionate and my husband understands I need time to get back to feeling like me. With my husband having experienced this hinself a few years ago he has been very understanding. I realise I've burnt out with coping with grief, work and a toddler and sadly sex/affection is the easiest thing to drop. Perhaps you're wife is also experiencing some low mood/stress? Anyway I'm hopeful we will get back on track because I love him very much. Take care

I do think all this talk about what someone does and doesn’t do in the house really doesn’t always get to the root cause - when I had been married say 6 years and had a 3 year old I had no issue at all with sex , even though my H did really not share much domestically - when I had been married say 18 years , I just was no longer interested in that way - it wouldn’t have mattered if he had cleaned the house top to bottom every day, cooked every meal and did all the mental admin - I just no longer ‘felt’ sexy or interested in sex - it had nothing to do with housework - I think for me it was other things, a lot of moodiness, ranting, non stop moaning about work ( and he’s in a stressful but very interesting role many men would kill for) constant inability to be satisfied ( hence we’ve moved houses a lot) found out he had a far too regular porn habit for my liking - I think lots of things big and small can gradually kill libido and attraction over time— but it’s really not akwaysabout domestic labour division .

For what it's worth, here's my two p:
I seem to have lost my sex drive (also early 40s) - it's just left the premises, sadly. My body does not recall, physically, what sex is for - what is the point of it, essentially. I have forgotten!, so there's no physical need just lingering in the background.
I appreciate it's probably not the same for men. Men tend to have the desire just there, all the time - get a spark close enough and you have fire, as the fuel is always flowing.
For me, I don't think hormones are to blame (yet). The main reason for lack of it, is where sex actually starts for me. It's like expecting a broom handle to sprout blossoms. Let me explain: I can't get aroused straight into sex if there's nothing preceding it (no, I don't mean foreplay). It feels awkward (?), physically. If my husband hasn't touched me, hasn't kissed me (without- !!! -expecting sex), hasn't really spoken to me on an intimate genuinely-interested level, then he can't expect me to feel the connection to actually desire sex. Sex is the natural 'effect' of the connection 'cause'. If the intimate connection isn't there, there's no way sex is happening. And I mention intimate conversation purposefully - that's where it starts. If you have no connection, you have no 'connection'.

Do you have a physical relationship? Not sex. Physical connection. Is it there? Do you even notice it? Or does it feel like a stranger is touching you all of a sudden? Have the kisses become auto-pilot like, when you greet each other or wish each other a good day parting in the morning?

You make yourself sound like a passive bystander in your own marriage. "If I haven't been touched... been kissed... been spoken to....".

Are you not capable of initiating those things? What do YOU do to help create the mystical "intimate connection" with your husband?

Or is that the sole responsibility of the one who actually wants sex?

Nail on head.

I sympathise. What you're going through must make you sad.

I'm afraid I don't think she's going to change. The motivation has to be there on her side.

The other, very unpleasant and tough thing to consider is that you are not very good at pleasuring her, maybe?

It seems this resonates to a lot of people but for me, none of these things apply (apart from peri/menopause) but I still have no sex drive.

I agree.
When my kids were under 10 my life was much more stressful. I was a SAHM, I had to raise kids do the "mental load", I felt unsexy, never had time to spruce myself up.
Yet I wanted sex with my DH.
Now my kids are adults and I don't have to do all that stuff and have a lot more time for me.
Yet I no longer want to have sex.

Be romantic and loving without the expectation of sex. No sex, just fall in love again.

I’ve lost most of my desire to maintain a romantic affection and do the things you’d otherwise want to do with the love of your life, so don’t have a strong desire to go on dates, cuddle her, hold hands etc.

this isn't going to increase her sex drive is it. I'd focus on affection without the expectation or hope of sex. Womens attraction and desire is fueled by those things. you* *restricting tthat becuase she doesn't have sex with you is just cutting off your nose to spite your face. You're capable of going out with friends, they don't fuck you, you hug your mum, hold your kids hands. You can show physical and emotional affection to others without the expectation of sex so why not your wife of 20 years?

And could you try to make sex more about her than you? I know she's said she enjoys it when you have it. But does she love it. Maybe look into what you can do to make it more pleasurable for her. 20 years and 2 kids, it might be as easy for her. Do you use lube. Does she orgasm, very few women can actually orgasm during penetration and penetration is alot better after an orgasm.

If you don't want sex to be coerced or obligated then you you need to work on making it more desirable.

We're not discussing my marriage.

I offered the OP a point of view - something to consider.
It's akin to trying to get a car moving from stationary in fifth, and wondering why it's difficult.

Bottom line is she isn’t attracted to you and doesn’t see you in that way. My ex thought I had a low sex drive, talked about me on dead bedroom forums, it was such an issue. I enjoyed sex when we had it but had no urge to repeat it.
I met someone I liked and boom I wanted sex all the time. Now I’m single and just have FWB and there’s nothing wrong with my sex drive!

I read counsellors say that women often go off sex if they are doing everything else! Check how equal the domestic load is in your home.

Good for you.

So basically you enjoy sex, but only as part of the excitement and novelty of a new relationship.

This is a really important thing to know and have learned about yourself.

I hope you will be upfront and clearly warn any future partner that you ever consider settling down with, that the great sex you're having at the start, and which he values highly WILL decline rapidly. No doubt very soon after you've had a child, or bought a house together.

Then when HE hits the dead bedroom forums at least he can't say you didn't warn him.

I also think this is extremely common. People think they want, or feel like they ought to want, long-term monogamous relationships, but get bored too easily with the reality of it, and aren't prepared to put in any effort to keep things interesting. It takes two people to do this.

It’s amazing how different the responses are if a woman says her DH/DP doesn’t want sex. I have never seen her accused of not doing her fair share of the domestic tasks or not being romantic enough around her DP, or told to suck it up and who wants sex anyway. Generally in that scenario she is encouraged to try and get her DP to the doctors to check for any medical issues as the issue is rightly seen to be with her other half.

Many women in peri or full menopause go off sex, regardless of how much ironing and how many school runs their DP is doing. It’s entirely natural and makes biological sense - no point having sex if it won’t lead to a baby. HRT may well make a difference.

Lots of good suggestions already and I do feel for you. My libido nosedived during peri so this may be worth exploring. I also found men and the idea of sex unappealing before I started HRT including testosterone. Would you consider attending sessions with a relationship therapist?

She says she really enjoys it in the moment but just hardly wants it to happen between times, but… I don’t know. Is it possible to have essentially zero sex drive but then really enjoy it once in a blue moon?

I have to say that if my lovely DH didn't come up with the idea, it would probably never occur to me to have sex with him, even though I love/fancy him and enjoy it.

It might help to have a sort of secret code, and keep it light-hearted and non-committal, such as a pantomime wink. She can then take it or leave it, no pressure. (And you can see if you end up with nowt for the next 5 years! in which case, time to reconsider...)

Feeling older and less attractive has definitely influenced my desire, at least as much as the absence of raging hormones and the predictability of a daily routine. When I learned after many years of marriage that DH found black lingerie irresistible (a cliché, I know...), it made me feel that i had a secret weapon up my sleeve. There is no reason for me to need such a prop, but it quiets the self-doubt.

I just want to say that you sound nothing like the lazy, selfish, abusive predator some PPs are keen to project onto your situation. Good luck!