Son is breaking my heart. AIBU to make him move out

[Sheshell]

I was married for 30 years to a man i truly loved but who became abusive 15 years in. It became so toxic that I was totally isolated, could not go anywhere without a child with me to prove I wasn't haven't sex with someone at the shops, couldn't put the washing out to prove I wasn't jumping the fence to have sex with someone. Couldn't make any effort with myself, even brush my hair or wash too often because this was all usedas evidence of affairs. Eventually I had a breakdown and lost a couple of years of memories with my babies because I functioned on automatic. Then my partner got seriously ill. I nursed him for a year whilst still being abused. Even ambulance people would pull me aside and ask if this was a DV situation and was I ok? I stayed because he was dying. Then he died and love, relief, sadness, confusion, anger, grief all mixed up. My adult son moved back during the illness. Not to help but because he had a breakup. He didn't help with care if the house hold. This was meant to be short term. 3 months max. Then he's dad died and this timetable went out the window.
Slowly I clawed my way back to an identity. Supported my kids in their grief.
3 years later, after 2 years of counselling and a life changing trip and massive support from my extended family I am loving myself, making my own decisions and finally realising I have a future.
Recently and quite by accident I met a man who I have a lot in common with. We talk for hours about history, books, architecture and we're starting to have feelings for each other. My son can't accept this. I've been totally honest with the kids as this has progressed. He says it proves I am the whore my husband thought I was. He called me a tramp when I went out for dinner. He's left dog poo on my stairs, spills coffee on the floor on purpose when I've just cleaned it, refuses to put his stuff away and it's just everywhere. This morning I found he had tried to give my dog chillies in the night after I told him they made him very ill before. I love my son but I am now getting the same anxiety and feelings that his dad gave me. I am scared to fo certain things again. I have asked several times to talk it out but everytime I'm told to go away. I can't cope. I need him to move out. Am I being unreasonable,? I know he's in pain for a father that bullied him and I don't know where he'll go because he cant afford to move out. This time I need to protect myself. Its not about the man I've met. That is cery early days. Am I right choosing not to die inside again. Am I right choosing me?

he needs help, but that does not mean he can abuse you
my DS2 witnessed his dad abuse, control and rape me. 25 years I stayed, left eventually
DS2 started stalking, threatening and controlling a girl who simply changed her mind about being with him
he stopped but self harmed, lost all his friends and attempted suicide.
he used to beg me to take him and his brothers out of my awful marriage to his dad
he told school and SS that he behaved this way ‘because it worked for his dad’ 😩
love, belief, extensive therapy and time helped him to deal with the toxic relationship he witnessed.
he is now a successful, happy, wonderful young man with a very healthy relationship

your son needs help but you are allowed to be happy

Domestic violence is so insidious and cyclical.Unfortunately the op's sad story is so typical.
He can't be allowed to continue abusing his mother, if this were any other form of abuse there would be no hesitation in reporting him to the police.It's no surprise that he's come from a broken relationship and unfortunately there's no choice other than to insist that he leaves.

First and foremost he needs to leave. Ultimatums are not appropriate. His behaviour has escalated to poisoning OP’s dog, which is a massive red flag that he is a serious threat to OP’s safety and needs to be removed from her home. He’s 24 years old - an adult. It is NOT OP’s job to facilitate or enter into therapy with him. He is her abuser and that’s the paramount concern here.

Terrible advice that will almost certainly put OP at risk. His behaviour has escalated to harming OP’s dog. He’s a direct threat to her safety. She needs to call the police, report the abuse and ask them to assist in removing him from her home.

What a load of victim blaming codswallop. You should be ashamed of yourself.

This. ^ Being abused is not an excuse to be abusive.
Call the police if you have to, he needs to leave asap. He can get emergency housing via the local authority.
Do not let this escalate, he’s controlling and abusive.

@Devonshiregal 🙄 he’s not a little boy anymore. He can access counselling elsewhere OP needs to safe herself and her dog before her son does any more damage.

It’s awful and of course he must go. But he is a complete fuck-up because of what he witnessed and experienced in his formative years.
I hope to God he will get therapy.

I would be packing his bags and leaving them outside the door. You don't have to put up with this in your own home, he needs to go, asap.

@Rosscameasdoody no one is saying the OP has to enter into family therapy with her son. Why do you keep going on about this? It would be completely inappropriate due to his abusive behaviour.

You haven’t answered my question though - was the son not a victim? Yes he was.

did the mother make terrible choices or feel unable to make good ones because she was being abused? Yes she did.

So why is she afforded sympathy and not him?

That is not victim blaming. I have been caught in an abusive relationship and trust me I KNOW you can’t ‘just leave’. I also have abusive/enabler parents who I actually gave sympathy my whole life, understanding their reasons for being that way…you know what? I KNOW it doesn’t matter to a little child WHY your parents were a particular way, I KNOW it doesn’t matter whether a child logically understands why their parents didn’t make a different choice, I KNOW it fucks you up anyway. And clearly OP’s example is an extreme choice. And he needs to go to jail for what he’s done. But you can’t be giving one person a complete free pass for behaving badly then not for another person. They’re all acting in this way because of being abused. It’s a long hideous chain that goes back generations and until someone ends it through breaking the generational pattern or through death it’ll continue. Yes it would be wonderful if he would just ‘go to therapy’ but I’d imagine he’s pretty far gone to make such a logical choice if he’s poisoning dogs!

and in his eyes op ISNT taking the necessary ‘responsibility’. (That doesn’t mean I think she made the choice to hurt him - but HE will feel she did) She keeps saying how he never saw the abuse - bullshit. It was only psychological and emotional towards her - bullshit. Kids see and hear everything and he clearly picked it up as he’s speaking his father’s words. And she’s coming up with reasons it couldn’t have been to do with her staying ‘the dad wouldn’t have hurt a dog’. ‘Violence only after he left home’. ’i apologised BUT said this can’t continue’. An apology given to try to change HIS behaviour is not going to cut it for him. An apology that has a BUT after isn’t going to cut it. And downplaying his trauma isn’t going to cut it.

and this other man has triggered him in particular (I’m sure he’s awful the rest of the time too) because he’s going to be thinking hang on you stuck by dad and made our childhood shit and now you get to just get a new guy and move on and have a functioning relationship so why didn’t you do that before?

you might not want this to be the case but it is very clear it is what is happening. That doesn’t mean anything other than objectively this is what’s happening. Ever heard of the cycle of abuse? Well here we go! This is what HIS mind is thinking subconsciously after a shitty childhood. That isn’t victim blaming - and it makes no sense to not accept or acknowledge this. they are BOTH victims. HE is also a c*nt. And it is very sad.

Maybe the dad was a victim too though? It doesn’t really matter. The point is that whether or not you grow up in a violent home, you have a choice about whether you become an abuser. Lots of violent men have back stories of bad childhoods and a high proportion of the prison population spent their childhood in the care system. They’re still abusers and make the choice to abuse people.

Several posters have talked about family therapy and more have urged OP to support him through it. Neither is appropriate or safe.

OP, I wish you well, your striking vulnerability is evident in your first post. Asking us, randoms on the internet, if you are right to choose you.

Clearly the abuse was in plain sight, as ambulance crews coming to your home were pulling you to one side to check on you and assess what was going on. You covered it up, didn’t you? No judgement here but you denied the truth and blocked support for yourself and for your children. Did their schools question what was going on and GP etc?

If paramedics who are in your home for only a short while were picking up on signs of abuse, your children absolutely did and they would have been harmed by it. They lived in effectively what was a war zone, look up C-PTSD.

please keep yourself safe now and I hope you all heal going forward.

You didn’t ask a question in the post l replied to. It amounted to a diatribe on how the boy is a victim too. I doubt anyone here would dispute that, but it’s not the issue. As a grown man that boy is now abusive and has escalated to harming animals, which is a huge red flag. What needs to be done now is not to try and heal the relationship, but to remove him from OP’s home so that he can’t harm her.

If you’d read OP’s updates you’d know that he refused to engage with therapy and she’s already tried to talk to him about what happened back then, to no avail. OP clearly understands the effects on all her children and has tried to address it as best she can. DS hasn’t made any attempt to even meet her half way, so now he’s channelling his father as an abusive adult, and l have a strong suspicion that that’s why his relationship came to an end. If that’s the case, he’s not only a danger to OP, but to any other female he enters into a relationship with. The person responsible for that is OP’s late husband.

Unless and until DS is willing to get help to work through his issues, the relationship between himself and OP will remain difficult and fraught with risk for his mother. It’s not on OP to facilitate or support him with that help. These are his issues and as an adult he needs to take responsibility for them.

did the mother make terrible choices or feel unable to make good ones because she was being abused? Yes she did.
So why is she afforded sympathy and not him?

Because he is making shit choices as an adult of 24, either because he is not interested in finding a better way or incapable of it (psychopath). He has been offered therapy and refused it. Fuck him.

Give it a rest will you. OP posted for support, not a critique of her past ‘mistakes’ while she was suffering abuse at the hands of her partner. Her son is a grown man who has refused to engage with the help OP got for her family and is now abusing her in her own home and blocking her from moving on with her life. His behaviour is escalating and she’s in harm’s way as a result. That’s the issue OP posted about, not whether she is making the right choices now.

He needs to leave before he destroys you.

It’s a horrific thing for you to face up to and deal with.

Have the locks changed, and call the police when he starts kicking off. Can you have someone with you?

He’s got his father’s controlling nature, and he’s got to learn it’s unacceptable. Not only will he ruin other people’s lives, he’ll ruin his own.

I hope he gets therapy.

Not everyone will want to get involved. I don’t know any of my neighbours well enough.
999 is there for emergencies if he gets violent to her that is an emergency.

He has learned to be abusive from his dad , he is the same. You need to show him that women will bot tolerate being treated this way.

Give him two months to move out. Do it with Iove though , say , you will give him the first months deposit to help him, and help him look at flats etc
You must get in with your life. He's a disrespectful shit and needs to find his own way

Eventually little boys become adult men, though--we can explain why an adult man might be behaving a certain way without excusing it, or suggesting that anyone enable it or put themselves in harm's way as some sort of perverse display of validation. Threatening behaviour from any adult man must never be tolerated for any reason. As already stated, there are also plenty of adult men who behave in an exemplary way despite having had very difficult lives.

Please please get him removed. He has shown you who he is. A psychopath. And I know it’s hard to acknowledge that a DC is a bad person but he is, and you are in danger.

The people advising you to give him a month or two's notice are really misguided and uninformed about abuse. You don't have to give him any notice and the priority is OP's safety, which is why several posters have advised to take advice from Women's Aid or local domestic abuse support. If I remember correctly, son is 24 and only came home when his relationship broke down. He stopped paying rent when he learned about OP's male friend and owes her £3k. So fuck giving notice.

Op get in touch with this organisation:

https://www.pegsupport.co.uk/#Home-supportforparents

He needs to leave today, he is abusive and, if things escalate he could seriously harm the OP. Why should she live in fear for 2 months?

I take your point entitled but no mum is going to throw out their son immediately with nowhere to go.