Son is breaking my heart. AIBU to make him move out

[Sheshell]

I was married for 30 years to a man i truly loved but who became abusive 15 years in. It became so toxic that I was totally isolated, could not go anywhere without a child with me to prove I wasn't haven't sex with someone at the shops, couldn't put the washing out to prove I wasn't jumping the fence to have sex with someone. Couldn't make any effort with myself, even brush my hair or wash too often because this was all usedas evidence of affairs. Eventually I had a breakdown and lost a couple of years of memories with my babies because I functioned on automatic. Then my partner got seriously ill. I nursed him for a year whilst still being abused. Even ambulance people would pull me aside and ask if this was a DV situation and was I ok? I stayed because he was dying. Then he died and love, relief, sadness, confusion, anger, grief all mixed up. My adult son moved back during the illness. Not to help but because he had a breakup. He didn't help with care if the house hold. This was meant to be short term. 3 months max. Then he's dad died and this timetable went out the window.
Slowly I clawed my way back to an identity. Supported my kids in their grief.
3 years later, after 2 years of counselling and a life changing trip and massive support from my extended family I am loving myself, making my own decisions and finally realising I have a future.
Recently and quite by accident I met a man who I have a lot in common with. We talk for hours about history, books, architecture and we're starting to have feelings for each other. My son can't accept this. I've been totally honest with the kids as this has progressed. He says it proves I am the whore my husband thought I was. He called me a tramp when I went out for dinner. He's left dog poo on my stairs, spills coffee on the floor on purpose when I've just cleaned it, refuses to put his stuff away and it's just everywhere. This morning I found he had tried to give my dog chillies in the night after I told him they made him very ill before. I love my son but I am now getting the same anxiety and feelings that his dad gave me. I am scared to fo certain things again. I have asked several times to talk it out but everytime I'm told to go away. I can't cope. I need him to move out. Am I being unreasonable,? I know he's in pain for a father that bullied him and I don't know where he'll go because he cant afford to move out. This time I need to protect myself. Its not about the man I've met. That is cery early days. Am I right choosing not to die inside again. Am I right choosing me?

This is really sad to read and I really feel for you. It sounds very much like your son is passing on behaviour he witnessed from his dad and quite bluntly it’s abuse. You deserve to be happy, and while it may be difficult to see his mum with someone else, he is abusing you. I would tell him he either stops or leaves.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this, it’s unimaginable.
Your son must leave. He does need help and support, but he will choose not to see that for as long as he’s able to use you as his emotional punchbag. He may not ever seek help or change, but he definitely won’t do it while this is being allowed.
You have been through hell, you’ve given your kids your all, it’s more than your turn for peace in your home and a life outside of your family.
Im worried about how he will react to being told to leave. I think you may need some professional support. Your son is abusing you, domestic abuse can come from a family member, not just a partner. I would recommend speaking to local domestic abuse support or possibly the police.
I know you don’t want to hurt your son more than he is clearly hurting, but this is the only way he has a hope of changing and living a better life xxx

The OP needs to keep herself safe, that is paramount and the most pressing issue; but this is really about family tragedy and the OP is in despair.

If a woman came onto this site now and said she was in a DV relationship, she would be told to seek help and support to leave. Bottom line is, she must leave to ensure her safety and her children’s. I am not saying leaving an abusive relationship is easy, far from it. I’m not being flippant about this. For those that say it’s not easy to leave, I agree but what’s the alternative? There are lots of people on this site who grew up in homes where DV occurred, they will have been left with life long trauma, likely C-PTSD.

There is no point denying the facts: the son’s father was abusive and he damaged his son and the OP was abused by this man and she stayed in the relationship. It was serious life threatening abuse. This no doubt caused damage to the children.

OP, have you done the freedom program? I wish you well.

I know it’s hard because we all love our kids, but we are also people in our own right.

He needs to go.

@Sheshell why don’t you start a handhold thread until you’ve managed to sort this out, in Relationships?

He's dangerous. He has to go.

@Sheshell what would he say if you asked him to leave? Would he go?

If not, you need to work out a way to get him out. I don't know enough about this to know if the police would help (I know you've said that you have no male relatives). Would your man friend help or is that too inflammatory? Do you think your son is likely to get violent?

It maybe that women's aid or refuge can give you some advice on this.

You haven't actually responded I don't think to the suggestions that you need to tell him to leave. You need to get him to leave. but you do.

Fwiw I have some experience of this (at a much lower level) when I heard my son talk to me in the same way , even using the same language, as my abusive exH used to. I know how upsetting and triggering it is. You HAVE to get him out of your house urgently.

You’re talking utter nonsense. OP bears no responsibility for this and it’s not down to her to support him in working through this. He’s her abuser. You do not enter into therapy or any other kind of support with your abuser. OP didn’t choose to stay with her DH - she was gaslighted into believing she was the problem- that’s what abusers do. Psychological and emotional abuse to wear you down and isolate you, and then physical abuse begins. The ignorant and misogynistic victim blaming here is shocking.

Please stop posting. I say that as a professional involved with both physical and mental health disability and experience in supporting victims of domestic abuse. You’re really not helping. You clearly ether haven’t read OP’s updates and are unaware that herself and her children have already undergone counselling, or you’re actually suggesting that OP either attend with, or support her DS through counselling or therapy. No therapist worth their licence would ever advocate that a victim attend counselling or otherwise support their abuser - which is what he now is. NONE OF THiS IS OP”s FAULT. She is a victim of slow, measured and deliberate abuse - emotional, psychological and eventually physical - at the hand of her husband. She will have done her best with what she had at the time to protect her children. Apportioning blame to her for the vile abuse she is now enduring at the hand of her son is misogynistic in the extreme.

You owe it to your other adult children to draw a very firm boundary and kick him out straight away. I bet they are secretly very worried about you and are also not learning important lessons about not putting up with abusive behaviour. It will also teach him a stronger lesson that actions have consequences than if you tried to reason with him or explain things to him.

If he refuses to go you may have to contact the police to get support in removing him. It is not your job to find him somewhere to live, he is an adult. Part of his behaviour may be down to witnessing his father’s emotional abuse of you but he is also showing he is entitled and arrogant. Only fending for himself will teach him a bit of humility. Humouring him and pandering to him only reinforces his negative behaviour because it gets him what he wants and keeps you trapped.

I watched a colleague go through similar and her son turned into his mini-me after she finally managed to leave the abusive monster.

She is now in her 70's and is a total shell of the person she should of been. Son is now in his 40's with kids of his own and still tries to control her.

Please for your own sanity ask (then tell) him to leave so you can build the life you deserve. Best of luck with your new gentleman friend too, he sounds lovely.

@Rosscameasdoody absolutely not suggesting family therapy with son.

OP is not to blame for being abused by her husband, that is completely on him but her child was raised in a damaging, abusive environment. He is now displaying highly abusive behaviour and the OP needs to keep herself safe.

Both parents had responsibility to keep the children safe, this why school safeguarding, police, social services etc will get involved if a child is experiencing DV. It is not a safe environment for the children to be raised in and can cause life long harm. OP is not responsible for how this young man is behaving now, but she was responsible for keeping him physically, emotionally and spiritually safe as a child, along with his father.

To everyone telling OP “ ask son / tell son to leave” , you’re potentially putting OP in very dangerous situation… the police need to do it immediately, no excuses from son trying to plead for time to sort himself out. It’s beyond that. Women are severely beaten or killed in these situations…

@Sheshell

OK my love, you have tried all the 'right' things, apologizing, explaining, requesting, etc. Now try the 'wrong' (but not really wrong in your situation) thing; throw him out.

You say there is no other adult male to give you 'backup' so I assume no male relatives or sons-in-law. Would he kick off if one or more of his sisters was there when you told him to give you his key and leave? Abusers don't like audiences. Because that is what this is. Abuse. If you think he would leave under these circumstances, have the number of an emergency locksmith on hand to call immediately. Or if you or someone you know is 'handy', have them put a chain on the door until you can get a locksmith out.

Would there be an opportunity to change the locks when he's out at work? Bag his 'stuff' up and set it on the porch with a note that you're done tolerating his abuse?

Before the lock changing you may want to consult with the police, a solicitor, or other authority to be sure there can't be legal repercussions or to make preparations if you think he might try to break in. Install a Ring doorbell immediately after he leaves if not a few days before. You can simply tell him you're worried about safety.

He will never change his ways.

Poor damaged diddums. Fuck him, seriously.

I've known a few men who had abusive childhoods. I'm married to one of them. He has never raised his voice to me or behaved like a bully, because people either exercise choice in life, and choose a better way, or choose the easiest option at the expense of others, or have no choice because they are just wired up wrong (e.g. psychopath).

OP's son is in one of the latter two categories, so her options are limited: Let him continue to ruin her life, or cut him out and let him get on with his as best he can. I'm sure he will find other victims. He will survive, easily. These monsters always do. I've had relationships with them in the past. One of them loved therapy because it meant he could talk about himself non stop and then come home to smash the place up and attack me.

OP I am so angry on your behalf. Damage? Give me a baseball bat and I would gladly damage him myself!

OP, I'm sorry to ask, but how will he react if you ask him to leave? Is there a chance he may become aggressive?

Leaving an abusive relationship is tricky - Woman's Aid may be able to help here.

I was just about to post what you said
Shocking what this poster is spouting and clearly she has never been in this position or she would fully well know sometimes it’s not as bloody easy as “ just leaving “

Very well said, an excellent post!
Like others on here I have known men who have been abused, most notably my father, my first husband and my current husband. My father was a kind and gentle man though also (sadly) an alcoholic, luckily of the very laid back and calm variety. My first husband was a horror, though definitely the one who suffered the least abuse. My current DH had alcoholic parents and his father was sexually abusive towards him. He was also abusive in several other ways, though there was no violence. DH is a good and decent man, though rather detached. he is also an alcoholic though thankfully he has been in recovery for decades.
For the (luckily very few) utter dimwits in this thread who are victim blaming; take it from somebody who knows. It is just not that bloody easy to leave. I spent so much time trying to work out how to do it in the teeth of violence and threats. I was lucky, one evening current DH asked me if I and my small DD would like to leave with him. I was already very fond of him though there had been no adultery whatsoever. So I did.
Did life become simple then? No but it was a great deal more peaceful for DD and I and my dogs. Trying to divorce the douche canoe I married at 17 involved a lot of difficulties but I did it in the end, with full care and control -as it was called then- of my DD and a court sanctioned move to the other end of the country. I wasn't 'brave' or any of that sort of nonsense, I was lucky. Not every woman is, not by a long way. Think on that.

erm he literally just tried to poison a dog. The guy has serious issues. And if we’re playing your silly game - plenty of women have refused to let their kids be trapped in a home with a man who is abusing the shit out of them. But, you know, people’s brains are wired differently so they react differently to trauma.

but really, I mean, by your logic why even bother giving a shit about kids who are being abused - not like they don’t get a break from it at school eh? And if that isn’t enough for them they’re gonna grow up and move out eventually so it’s not reeeeally that big a problem is it? Not going to cause any lasting damage unless they’re just arseholes.

I mean surely, with your vast experience you’re wondering why the op is even blithering on about how bad her life was impacted by this man? She was only abused by him for half their marriage. And not like she hadn’t been free of him since he died - why isn’t she over it yet? Right? Or is she allowed to be traumatised but not her son?

clearly his behaviour is absolutely hideous but it’s a bit rich for the mum to be acting so surprised he’s ended up this way no? Don’t people always say ‘it’s not the dog, it’s the owner’. Well yep. Most people still want a dangerous dog PTS, doesn’t mean you can’t feel sad the owners made it that way.

anyway - good on you for being sooo much better than other trauma survivors but perhaps look past your own nose for a second and realise other people aren’t you. Other people have different needs and responses and this guy (whether you think his brain should’ve responded this way or not) has clearly responded very badly.

And this is why it's so important for parents to leave abusive partners when they have children.

Behaviour will be mimicked.

He needs to go.

He says it proves I am the whore my husband thought I was. He called me a tramp when I went out for dinner. He's left dog poo on my stairs, spills coffee on the floor on purpose when I've just cleaned it, refuses to put his stuff away and it's just everywhere. This morning I found he had tried to give my dog chillies in the night after I told him they made him very ill

This is scary. What have you said to him about these things?

I'm presuming the house is 100% yours and your husband didn't leave it to your son in his will or something odd?

I would ask him to leave tomorrow as soon as he gets up. His behaviour or irrational, unacceptable and absolutely can't continue-he needs to leave. It's really not your problem where he goes. If he refuses, call the police.

Honestly this is just not ok how people are backing this woman without backing a little boy who was harmed. She can be responsible for his pain and also have had no choice - the two things aren’t mutually exclusive. A little boy lived in a house where he was NOT protected from abuse. End of story. If someone was posting here today saying they were being abused but not leaving, people would be getting exasperated saying you must leave for you son’s sake. If the poster kept refusing and saying thy were too scared or whatever, people would (we’ve all seen it happen) eventually get pissed off and say get your son out of there you have to put him first etc etc. Why? Because it doesn’t matter why the mum is finding hard to leave we all know what matters most is protecting the kid.

saying a child was damaged by their upbringing doesn’t mean the same as saying the op did it on purpose. no matter why she had him in that house, the result is always the same for the son - he suffered.

this isn’t about blaming her. And I 1000% get how hard it is to leave, believe me. It is literally just a factual reality that the son was not protected from abuse. Now he has grown up and this is the result. Which doesn’t mutually exclude him from being or behaving like a c*nt.

no relationship can repair without responsibility being taken - you can run someone over by accident and still hold your hands up and say yes i caused that pain. Doesn’t mean you had a choice or did it on purpose. You’re a victim of your circumstance as much as the person you ran over, but that person is still damaged and they’re not going to like you very much if the first thing out of your mouth is ‘it’s not MY fault’, or ‘the sun was blinding me’ or ‘my foot slipped on the accelerator’.

you have people here defending her for her resulting bad behaviour (again, whether she intended it or not is immaterial) because she was a victim of an abuser - yet her son, who was also abused but in his formative years by the same man and also had the extra layer of watching his mother enable the abuse (this will understandably be his view), is just a piece of vermin? Interesting.

What on earth are you talking about?

OP, I think your best bet is to call the police on 101, and ask for advice on how to get rid of him safely, tell them that you are frightened for your safety, and then follow the advice they give you.

You deserve some peace after everything you've been through, and if you've found a man who will treat you well, then you deserve the opportunity to follow up on this relationship.

However, can I just urge caution, and that you don't move in with him, or him with you, for some considerable time, so that you can really get to know him first, as the last thing you want is another bullying bastard in your life.

Please come back in the next few days and tell us that you've got your son to move out, as I really fear for your sanity if you allow this to continue, after what you've already been through. Sending a hug and courage your way.