Dealing with increasingly extreme political views in a good friend

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I think its a hand-hold needed more than actual advice.

I have a friend who I've known for 30 years and who I've been through a lot of my life with. At her best, she's a wonderful friend. She can be entertaining and good fun, very intelligent and very supportive. She's been with me through most of the most significant parts of my life.

Increasingly her political views are become pretty extreme (on the right). Having been someone who described herself as a "left winger" and "progressive" for most of our friendship, she has now pivoted in the space of about two years to being someone who is "open to hearing from" Tommy Robinson, believes that Muslims in the UK are a threat to our safety, goes on ad nauseam about the grooming gangs etc. Believes the current government is antisemitic. Has very extreme views on gay people: she's gone from a position of being anti-trans (which I don't agree with but is more understandable) to basically saying all gay people have been brainwashed by the left. Everything, and I mean everything, is "woke".

To be really clear: I don't agree with any of these positions and I find some of them abhorrent but I acknowledge her right to hold these views. I'm pretty much a centrist, politically, slightly left of centre but not an extreme leftist (I was always politically to the right of her). But I'm very relaxed about being friends with people from different backgrounds and discussing different viewpoints, I just can't stomach having to endlessly debate this stuff. It's impossible to talk about anything else and I find it exhausting and just want to talk about normal things once in a while.

I've previously said to her that she and I will never agree on, for example, the need to expel Muslims from the UK, I respect that its her right to hold these views but I find them abhorrent and upsetting and can we just agree not to talk about this subject as I find it difficult. But she won't accept this and will always bring every discussion around to this, without fail. I can't spend more than about ten minutes in her company or on the phone talking about anything neutral without a rant about Muslims or gays or the "woke media". It's as if its some sort of compulsion, an attention seeking thing to bring everything back to her political position.

I suppose I've got to a point where I find this so toxic and exhausting I can't deal with it any more and have been avoiding spending time with her and I feel guilty. I've been wrestling with whether to tell her directly why I can't handle it or just let the friendship drift. She's lost touch with a lot of our mutual friends from the past recently because people can't deal with the politics: old friends have basically ghosted her and I know she is sad and confused about this. I sort of feel she is owed an explanation, we've known one another for so long, but I also can't face getting into a long debate about why I've been brainwashed by the woke media etc etc. I don't have the mental bandwidth for it.

Do I owe this to her? Or should I just accept that the friendship is over.

Bigotry is an obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group. Not wanting to be harangued about politics isn't bigotry.

Why do you care? Its an absurd statement on its face.

Sounds like OP’s friend isn’t willing to change the subject.

I've previously said to her that she and I will never agree on, for example, the need to expel Muslims from the UK, I respect that its her right to hold these views

Well there’s your problem. That is not an acceptable view and yabu to accept it.

I also think you should tell her. Along the lines of:

"We've been through a lot, Linda, and you mean a lot to me. But I just don't have the energy to listen to your political rants. We have to agree to disagree. Talk about other stuff. Unless you stop, I'm not going to see you any more."

I have a feeling that she won't change, but at least she might get some insight into how others perceive her, and how tedious her company is now.

Something similar happened to me. She wanted gossip all the time about our friendship group, and wanted me to tell her stuff I didn't want to. (There was more to it over the years, but this was the final straw.) I told her to stop. She said she understood, and would stop. Then the next thing she said was, "What did Susie say about me after blah blah....?" and so I just told her sorry, I wished her all the best but I didn't want to hear from her again.

I think this sort of line becomes a form of blackmail.

'If you don't agree with me it's because you can't bear to have your world view challenged'.

But the OP has listened, many times, to this friend of hers. And she's obviously tried to discuss it.

The only option here is for the two of them to agree to disagree, or agree not to discuss this subject (or these subjects).

IME, though, people like this are not capable of doing that. They are so convinced it's important to spread the world that they cannot stop talking about it. They interpret every response short of 'shut up; I cannot listen' as a green light to carrying on, and if you do put your foot down and say you can't listen, then you a 'snowflake' or too 'fragile' to listen to another world view.

What does it matter? The OP is sick of hearing this stuff. The friend is obviously not really interested in listening, discussing or learning. She is convinced and just wants to rant.

If I cut off everybody I am friends with who doesn’t agree with my politics I would have about one friend left and I don’t entirely agree with her!

As long as someone can agree to disagree all is fine.

We are losing this ability in an increasingly polarised society and it will not end well.

Not everybody on the right is racist. These days the word is frequently overused with misplaced outrage and resultant “cancellation”. Apart from anything else it belittles the awfulness of genuine racism.

There often seems to be a competition as to who can be the most outraged in order to take the moral high ground which does nothing useful for anyone except apparently the outragee who congratulates themselves on their own moral superiority.

Even if somebody is saying things which you consider racist you can still speak to them to politely challenge their views or find out what has led them to feel as they do. This would do far more to help dispel racism than punishing them by walking away.

I really don’t think that achieves anything except to force those with such views to band together and become increasingly resentful.

We need to talk to each other and more importantly still we need to listen to each other.

I say this as a lifelong labour voter who is generally pro immigration.

If this person has been your lifelong friend of course she deserves an honest conversation.

Cutting people off without a discussion and fair hearing is childish and achieves nothing except to cause upset and probably entrench the views you dislike.

Far better to politely and without confrontation have a discussion as to why you disagree.

You might both learn something and find middle ground.

We need to start focusing on what we have in common more than what separates us if their is any hope for society because the path we are on right now is the way to hell for all involved.

You said in an earlier post that she was sad and confused at some friendships ending. The last three paragraphs of this post would explain to her what this is happening.

If you think you might want to hold onto the friendship you could tell her that you will only see her if these topics are off the table. If she can’t understand that people have different views and if she can’t steer clear of subjects that are divisive, I think the friendship would be over.

But how many times must the OP listen, and discuss her own views and those of her friend?

It is quite clear from her first post that she has had those 'honest conversations' already. She has already listened to her friend's views and put her own views across; she has tried following what her friend says, and she has come to the point where she feels unable to keep listening to the same things over and over.

It seems dishonest, to me, to blame the OP for this. You say cutting people off without a 'fair discussion' is childish and unfair.

Of course it would be. But that doesn't mean the OP is obliged to keep listening to someone who isn't interested in a 'fair discussion'.

Anyone who believes Muslims should be deported just because they're Muslim is racist and extremist. This is NOT a mainstream view, don't fall for the script that says it is.

I have friends of all kinds but I could not stay friends with such an unambiguous racist, whether they ranted at me about it or not. They're free to believe it but I'm free to believe it's abhorrent and not associate with it.

I agree totally. Some of her views I am prepared to debate. This one is a hard red line, as is the one about there being no “real” gay people, only some mentally ill people who have been “brainwashed by woke”.

Have you ever discussed Gaza with her? I would be ashamed to be friends with anyone who supported the genocide of Palestinians and I wonder from her hatred of Muslims in the UK if she does so.

Seriously OP, I know it must be sad to see what she’s become, but some views are so repellent and destructive and inimical to human flourishing that maintaining contact with people who hold them is colluding in atrocity. It is our duty to ostracise people who hold certain views; morality and decency, as well as the preservation of democracy and international law, require it.

Yes, that's also horrific

It's ok to end things

@SarahAndQuack We’ve listened to our friends long enough too. Now they get angry at our middle line views and took to calling me callous and ignorant because I actually agreed somewhat with Labour on a tax issue and explained why I thought some change was necessary and how some affected people could plan their financial future differently. All of this was not accepted as a reasonable point of view and even DH was taken aback! Then, after being called basically ignorant on a subject I do know something about, amongst other Reform rants, we decided enough is enough.

You give people the benefit of the doubt in a long friendship (40 years) but people change and their current views are not for us so we aren’t engaging with them again.

I think it's silly to live in a bubble of like-minded people who all basically think the same. Then you will never have any understanding of other viewpoints, even if you don't agree with them. Same as saying 'don't discuss politics'. But politics control so many aspects of our lives. If the UK's next government is Reform, it will be because too many people were not listened to

It's one thing to listen.
It's another to have the message hammered home repeatedly at every opportunity with no respite.

I'm interested in my brother's views, I just don't want to hear them the whole time we are together and to the exclusion of all other conversation.

When we are walking around a garden centre it would be nice to talk about plants, or the weather not the evils of immigration.

I have and I actually have a more nuanced view on Gaza than you do and while I find the actions of this Israeli government appallingI think there has also been a myopia on the left about why it has happened and the role played by Hamas which, while not excusing what’s happened, plays into the hands of antisemites.

So my perspective on Gaza is perhaps closer to hers than you might be comfortable with. Her position on this is not a hill I choose to die on and I understand where she is coming from.

But the idea that this justifies a policy of seeking to expel all Muslims from the UK is one I find utterly abhorrent.

Rejecting racists and extremists doesn't mean living in a bubble. There's a huge spectrum of opinion between the extremes.

We need to push back against this idea that explicit racism and homophobia is 'just another opinion' that we need to tolerate. These are hateful ideas that do real damage to our society and to people. Hate crimes are soaring right now.

If individuals want to engage with racists and try to change their minds that's their choice, it doesn't mean we all need to. Personally I see how seriously engaging with people like this just reinforces their views.

I'm not sure if you were partially referring to me, as I said earlier that I refuse to discuss politics with my relative. I know politics affects us all. I have a degree in politics from one of the best universities in the country!

I still refuse to discuss politics with certain people. I find Dunning-Kruger is rife in this area, with the loudest, most aggressive and most immovable people being the ones who get all their info from unreliable sources or from their own prejudice.

Politics should be discussed, you are absolutely right. But there is just no point with some people. They need to find out on their own...or move onto their next fad!

I honestly think that station is a total menace and watched by people with far too much time on their hands who are bored and disgruntled - just as I would think one spouting non stop far left stuff would be without any balance whatsoever

@RandomNameChangeAlgorithm
All I can suggest is to change the way you interract with her for a while
so as to remove the opportunity for political debate.

Arrange to meet her in situations where you are busy concentrating on an activity
(a pottery class or a guided walk or vigorous exercise)
so that you can be in the same space physically without exchange of views.

If more and more people are ghosting her she will be going into bunker mentality.
The only way to change that is to sidestep the politics and just "be"

Everybody is febrile at the moment.
Many people feel helpless and frustated.
Politicians of all hues are wazzocks

Choosing to totally ignore the issues for a few hours of silly company is very good for the soul.

We (DH and I) have wildly different views to one of our adult DC. We have always been left of centre labour voters although getting a bit more to the right now for various reasons.
The DC in question is extreme left, and has some other views we vehemently disagree on but we have to keep good relations by basically not talking about politics or the subjects in question.
I wish it was a friend I could cut off or limit contact with, but can only hope they’ll come round to more mainstream views in time.
Far-left or far-right - neither extreme is good.

It's always left wingers who complain about the views of their friends.

I agree it's silly to live in a bubble and I have always embraced and sought out people with different political views from my own. I have friends from the hard progressive left and friends who are fully paid up members of the Tory party. And most things in between.

But there has to be a basic level of mutual respect and an acknowledgement that not aligning politically doesn't mean that you lack critical facilities, are stupid or have been brainwashed.

I'm happy to discuss pretty much anything with people (I draw the line at conspiracy theories, anything which is palpably untrue or bigotry), but I don't want to get into a conversation where I'm repeatedly told that I hold the views I do because I'm "woke", "brainwashed" or because I only read left wing media. It's an insult to my intelligence and its incredibly boring.