Dealing with increasingly extreme political views in a good friend

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I think its a hand-hold needed more than actual advice.

I have a friend who I've known for 30 years and who I've been through a lot of my life with. At her best, she's a wonderful friend. She can be entertaining and good fun, very intelligent and very supportive. She's been with me through most of the most significant parts of my life.

Increasingly her political views are become pretty extreme (on the right). Having been someone who described herself as a "left winger" and "progressive" for most of our friendship, she has now pivoted in the space of about two years to being someone who is "open to hearing from" Tommy Robinson, believes that Muslims in the UK are a threat to our safety, goes on ad nauseam about the grooming gangs etc. Believes the current government is antisemitic. Has very extreme views on gay people: she's gone from a position of being anti-trans (which I don't agree with but is more understandable) to basically saying all gay people have been brainwashed by the left. Everything, and I mean everything, is "woke".

To be really clear: I don't agree with any of these positions and I find some of them abhorrent but I acknowledge her right to hold these views. I'm pretty much a centrist, politically, slightly left of centre but not an extreme leftist (I was always politically to the right of her). But I'm very relaxed about being friends with people from different backgrounds and discussing different viewpoints, I just can't stomach having to endlessly debate this stuff. It's impossible to talk about anything else and I find it exhausting and just want to talk about normal things once in a while.

I've previously said to her that she and I will never agree on, for example, the need to expel Muslims from the UK, I respect that its her right to hold these views but I find them abhorrent and upsetting and can we just agree not to talk about this subject as I find it difficult. But she won't accept this and will always bring every discussion around to this, without fail. I can't spend more than about ten minutes in her company or on the phone talking about anything neutral without a rant about Muslims or gays or the "woke media". It's as if its some sort of compulsion, an attention seeking thing to bring everything back to her political position.

I suppose I've got to a point where I find this so toxic and exhausting I can't deal with it any more and have been avoiding spending time with her and I feel guilty. I've been wrestling with whether to tell her directly why I can't handle it or just let the friendship drift. She's lost touch with a lot of our mutual friends from the past recently because people can't deal with the politics: old friends have basically ghosted her and I know she is sad and confused about this. I sort of feel she is owed an explanation, we've known one another for so long, but I also can't face getting into a long debate about why I've been brainwashed by the woke media etc etc. I don't have the mental bandwidth for it.

Do I owe this to her? Or should I just accept that the friendship is over.

I mean, those still thinking the left has anything to offer are the demented ones IMHO. There is no right or left any more. And I'm of the left.

The left left the working class behind years ago.

The left offer absolutely nothing to the working class and unless you get your heads around where the left are now, you are going to be shocked and stunned when someone who is pretty centrist comes in and scoops up all the people who are completely left behind by the so called lefties.

They are the ones implementing all the things the left previously ranted about.

People need to wake up. Not shun their friends who are starting to. If you don't understand why so many previously left wing people are aghast at what the left are doing then maybe go out and have a chat with them rather than shun them.

I am also pretty centrist, and left leaning if anything. But I have got the opposite. My relative and her partner have become really pro-palestine, anti-israel. Believe every bad thing that happens is a zionist plot, believe that deceased celebrities have been killed off because they support Palestine etc.

Anyway, in my case I can live with it as it isn't often. I have said I don't want to discuss politics with the relative a few times, as she gets so irrate and can't even tolerate someone gently agreeing with her when she expresses horror at the war, (they have to also become absolutely fuming too or they are just heartless bastards). I haven't dared disagree with her tbh. She'd probably disown me completely!

Anyway, yanbu. If she won't stop, I would not spend time with her. At least my relative has respected my wish not to talk about it with her anymore. If she didn't respect that, I'd probably back away completely

What if you say you don’t want to discuss this stuff as you’ll never agree? Will she stop? If you’ve been friends 30 years then it seems like it will hopefully be a wave to ride out rather than an ending, but you shouldn’t have to endure the rants.

I'm also historically left, and I also feel terribly sad that the left is such a total, utter mess and failure.

I don't think that is an uncommon position.

But the idea that people 'need to wake up' and just aren't listening ... that feels like one of the 'scripts' we've mentioned. The OP has talked to her friend. Clearly she's talked - and listened - a lot. She's heard so much she really cannot cope with listening to the same stuff over and over any more.

The problem isn't that her friend has a different set of ideas, and the OP won't engage.

The problem is her friend will not shut up about ideas that haven't convinced the OP (and which the OP finds abhorrent).

You cannot bludgeon someone into agreeing with you by saying 'you agree there's a problem, and I insist I have a solution, and if you don't like my solution it proves you are not listening hard enough'. That's not an argument.

(Edited to clarify who my 'she' and 'OP' were!)

My parents are becoming like this. Mum has dementia and stepdad is just angry. Because they’re old and I seem them infrequently, I try to ignore. Were they 30 years younger, I’d have to draw a line.
I couldn’t put up with your friend’s views. Tell her, again. Balls in her court, then. If she persists, you’ve every right to cut her off.

Yep. I think Emily Thornberry's 'white van man' comment in relation to St George flags on display outside someone's house while her party simultaneously simultaneously wave Palestine flags at their party conference was the beginning of the end of the red wall. A party created on the factory floor to represent the working class has been completely taken over by career politicians who seem at times actively hate their traditional voters base and give more of a shit about international issues rather then ensuring their constituents concerns are properly addressed.

She has been radicalised, similar to cultish brainwashing, and considers it her duty to spread the word. Tedious.

If she had actually joined a religious cult, would you tolerate her? If not, then be the same in this situation.

If you want to be a friend, could you direct her to de radicalisation materials and therapy.

I think it's when people you've known for decades do a complete about turn that it's hard to handle.

My now late ex went from a left wing revolutionary in his 20s to a Trump admirer - by then we were long divorced so at least I didn't have to listen to him on a daily basis. During Covid, like many retired people, he spent too much time on the internet falling for all sorts of conspiracy theories.

Everyone's now into the grooming gangs but have never uttered a word over the same decades about abuse in children's homes, Barnardo's, Jimmy Savile, teenage addicts working as sex workers, etc.

As for the OP, in your position I would drop her - you have to think of your own well-being.

Probably because the Democrats went absolutely insane.

People just want some normalcy. And you might have to define what you think is a conspiracy here. Was it that Covid came from a lab or that it didn't? Which is the conspiracy exactly?

I saw a Facebook post from an old colleague on NYE that said they weren't watching the fireworks at midnight this year, as they'd gone woke.

Where do you even start with that? 😅

Accept that the friendship is over and leave it at that. Don't make her life difficult out of revenge or by just feeling like you must do something to make an example of her. You've drifted apart and you disagree on more things with her now than you did before. Don't make a fuss, just stop talking to her gradually.

A lot of friendship circles have disintegrated over the years, which I think was much more prominent in 2016 and beyond. People notice things, opinions and views change based on new discoveries. Some are willing to be open-minded while others can't bear to have their world view challenged or even gently criticised.

Edited for wording.

Radicalised is right.

It followed a fairly predictable path too: initiated during COVID, it started with lots of initially sensible positions such as rejecting Jeremy Corbyn (which I completely agree with, I thought he was a dangerous charlatan), and gender critical feminism.

But in the past 18 months to two years its a complete 180 degree shift.

Ironically we both lost friends during COVID to antivaxx nonsense and talked a lot about how many people were struggling with mental health issues and pivoting to extreme politics of different stripes.

But she’s been unable to make the connection with her own political journey.

I think she would find it very patronising to be told she has been radicalised and I also want to separate the views from the behaviour. She has every right to adhere to such views, whatever I think of them. I just don’t want her hammering at me about them at every single opportunity.

Yes people that can't bear to have their world view challenged are cutting off their friends left right and centre it would seem.

I completely agree with those of you who feel the left has lost its way, by the way. Its a complete mess.

But I don’t see that it automatically follows that the solution to this is to embrace the far right.

Yeah she's racist. And brainwashed. I would part ways with her if I were you.

She has the right to think such things, no matter how odious, but it's not right to just rant on and on about it to anyone who gives you the time of day. It's boring.

I think the first question is whether, provided you can stop her talking about these topics, you still want to be friends with her. She’ll still have those views, even if you can reach a position where they aren’t being discussed. Are you OK with that, or do you feel your values are now so different as people that you are better off ending the friendship? Because that’s what will determine how you go forward. If you don’t want a friendship any more, it’s then about how you end things - do you just drift out of her life, or do you provide an explanation. I’d personally opt for drifting out - you’ve given her enough feedback for her to know why you don’t want to continue seeing her. If you do feel you owe her something more, you might consider writing her a letter to explain your decision. You’ll be able to get what you want to across clearly, and to maybe explain how many valued memories you will be carrying with you of your friendship, but that you are now very different people, etc etc. That may give you what you may be looking for to be able to draw a line under things. If you still feel like you want to try to keep the friendship alive, it sounds like you are going to have to be incredibly direct. You are effectively issuing an ultimatum here, and it’s best to be very clear about that. For the friendship to continue, you need an assurance that your friend will never mention these topics. If that isn’t acceptable to her, or isn’t possible for her, you need to be clear that you can’t continue the friendship. I think ultimatums are problematic, but I sense that you feel she is becoming increasingly isolated and you want to offer her the chance to continue the relationship with you, and additionally to gain some insight into why others are ghosting her. To get your point across, you are likely to need to be really clear, really direct, and cut her off if she attempts to get you to see why she is right and you are wrong. You believe she is fundamentally misguided just as strongly as she believes you are - you’ve probably just been politer about it. It sounds like she doesn’t get subtle hints at all. If you and she reach an agreement, you’ll then need to be very consistent about your boundaries. If she starts to express the views you’ve agreed are off limits, you get up, and you walk out. (Best not to have her in your home for this!). If it keeps happening, you’ll know she genuinely can’t or won’t change, and you’ll be clear there is no chance of salvaging things. It’s lovely that you want to try, but I’d think carefully if I were you about what’s left to salvage before you decide how to approach things. You may have to accept that what that friendship used to provide for you is no longer there, and that all you can do is grieve that and move forward. It doesn’t change your memories, but you can’t force your friend to be what you want her to be any more than she can force you to take her views on board. For what it’s worth, I think you’ve been really reasonable - you aren’t cutting out alternative perspectives, you don’t want to operate in an echo chamber, you just don’t want to constantly have to navigate around this issue, and I’d say that’s totally understandable.

My mother is the same. watches GB news on a loop.In the end I started cutting short the visit by saying." I'm not willing to sit here and listen to this" and would leave. It took a few more incidents of me walking out before she finally got the message. She still holds the same views, but at least now I don't have to hear them.

I had a friend like this 20 years ago, her ‘thing’ was breastfeeding, she was militant, never missed an opportunity to lecture or get a dig in at me about it. You could not talk about anything, absolutely anything, without her bringing it back to breastfeeding.

Like you OP, I tried to ignore it, I tried talking to her and asking her if we could agree to take that subject off the table, I tried literally getting up and walking away when she started on one of her rants.

I lost my shit one day, called her a tedious twat, and that was it - friendship over.

The friendship is done, there’s no easy or best way to handle it when some is so deep in their ‘thing’, whatever that might be. So do it now in whichever way feels best for you rather than being concerned about what’s best for her, before you explode and do what I did.

I think you should tell her. She may not realise the reason why people are ending friendships with her. She might take a good look at herself if she does!

I think you said that she asked why she was being excluded from a group but you don't seem to have told her why. I think most people are ok with not agreeing with their friends on everything but not ok with those friends banging on about politics the whole time. I'm a centre left person with gender critical views. Most of my friends are left-wing and I have absolutely departed from their viewpoints on several issues - mainly Israel/Palastine and women's rights vs men in women's spaces. I do notice now how they go on about politics as if everyone is going to agree with them, and, to be frank, I don't disabuse them of that because I'm not interested in arguing about politics. You need to have a frank discussion with your friend about the effect her political arguments are having on her relationships. I think it's completely fine to be friends with people with different views to ones own but I also think if she can't pipe down when you've asked her to then you are going to have to see her less often.

@SarahAndQuack

And she'd have constant reinforcing chains of stuff, like this: 'ok, so the Guardian says some people came over as immigrants on small boats, Sarah, you read the Guardian, right? Now here's a video responding to the Guardian and showing the number was much higher, and look, they're actually standing beside the port where they came in, right, so they must know. And now here's a video showing how those people were actually terrorists who planned to come here? See how there are no women and children, only men? Now here's a piece in the Telegraph - you get it, the Telegraph, totally mainstream media - saying how there's no money in the NHS? And see, here's the video explaining how these terrorists have deliberately come into our country to defraud the NHS, right?

Yes this is spot on. I’m always being told I have a duty not to rely on “left wing media” and encouraged to “get a more diverse range of sources.

Then I will be told off for not having read some particular piece of right wing polemic or investigation.

I read a pretty diverse range of material: I read all the UK papers, left and right, a lot of international and US papers and I dip into Substack and non traditional media. But I also work full time and I don’t have time to endlessly research this stuff.

So many bigots on here 😂😂

’everyone has the right to think what they want, but I don’t have to listen to it’ is the very definition of bigotry.

@begonia27 I have asked myself a lot if I would still want to be friends with her without the right wing stuff.

I’m not sure if I do. It isn’t primarily the politics of it that I find stressful. Its the lack of self awareness and the idea that one person’s views always takes precedence over others.

Really?
Yes, they do. Just as they have the right to decide they don’t want to listen to someone banging on about something they have no interest in every time they meet.
Not bigotry, choice.

I’m friends with people on all ends and centre of the political spectrum and it has never affected our friendship. If anyone goes on a rant in either direction, I privately have a little eye roll or just laugh at them and change the subject. We’ve all got different opinions, it’s what makes the world go round.