Dealing with increasingly extreme political views in a good friend

[RandomNameChangeAlgorithm]

I think its a hand-hold needed more than actual advice.

I have a friend who I've known for 30 years and who I've been through a lot of my life with. At her best, she's a wonderful friend. She can be entertaining and good fun, very intelligent and very supportive. She's been with me through most of the most significant parts of my life.

Increasingly her political views are become pretty extreme (on the right). Having been someone who described herself as a "left winger" and "progressive" for most of our friendship, she has now pivoted in the space of about two years to being someone who is "open to hearing from" Tommy Robinson, believes that Muslims in the UK are a threat to our safety, goes on ad nauseam about the grooming gangs etc. Believes the current government is antisemitic. Has very extreme views on gay people: she's gone from a position of being anti-trans (which I don't agree with but is more understandable) to basically saying all gay people have been brainwashed by the left. Everything, and I mean everything, is "woke".

To be really clear: I don't agree with any of these positions and I find some of them abhorrent but I acknowledge her right to hold these views. I'm pretty much a centrist, politically, slightly left of centre but not an extreme leftist (I was always politically to the right of her). But I'm very relaxed about being friends with people from different backgrounds and discussing different viewpoints, I just can't stomach having to endlessly debate this stuff. It's impossible to talk about anything else and I find it exhausting and just want to talk about normal things once in a while.

I've previously said to her that she and I will never agree on, for example, the need to expel Muslims from the UK, I respect that its her right to hold these views but I find them abhorrent and upsetting and can we just agree not to talk about this subject as I find it difficult. But she won't accept this and will always bring every discussion around to this, without fail. I can't spend more than about ten minutes in her company or on the phone talking about anything neutral without a rant about Muslims or gays or the "woke media". It's as if its some sort of compulsion, an attention seeking thing to bring everything back to her political position.

I suppose I've got to a point where I find this so toxic and exhausting I can't deal with it any more and have been avoiding spending time with her and I feel guilty. I've been wrestling with whether to tell her directly why I can't handle it or just let the friendship drift. She's lost touch with a lot of our mutual friends from the past recently because people can't deal with the politics: old friends have basically ghosted her and I know she is sad and confused about this. I sort of feel she is owed an explanation, we've known one another for so long, but I also can't face getting into a long debate about why I've been brainwashed by the woke media etc etc. I don't have the mental bandwidth for it.

Do I owe this to her? Or should I just accept that the friendship is over.

Not really . My neighbour, for a laugh, (and no, I don’t know why), reported himself to the police as being part of the Tommy Robinson fan boys. He told them he also supported the (banned) pro Palestine mob.The police told him to press on and enjoy life. 🤷‍♀️

Your post is interesting but hard to read as it's a wall of text. Could you do paragraphs next time? Thx!

I don’t get this point of view at all. Its not a matter of taste if my friend or neighbor has eliminationist view like “all muslims should be deported” or “jews will not replace us” or “gays may not serve in the armed forces” or “women may not receive abortions.”

I don’t care if people holding racist or eliminationist or retrogade political views get their feelings hurt when they get called out for them. I don’t care if sweet old granny who votes Reform (ir Trump) because she hates foreigners loses touch with her grandchildren. Thats not “being cancelled “ thats just natural consequences. And so what if she is “cancelled” are we all obligated to buy a ticket to the racist granny show?

People on the far right have opinions which they want to share and enforce through state policy. This isn’t “do you like mushrooms? Or “where do you shop” its actual politics.

It would be foolish to mistake politics for ordinary social chatter its not. I don’t have to tolerate neo nazi politics—I dare not because it always leads to social disaster and mass murder. I may choose not to engage in fisticuffs with ex friends or granny or whoever but its not unimportant chatter on their part. When friends or family espouse political beliefs that align eith fascism, reaction, and exclusion of fellow citizens and human beings we should take them at their word and hold them accountable.

I had something similar with a friend/neighbour but it was religion rather than politics. It got to the point where I couldn’t even say “the weather is gorgeous today” and they’d respond with “it’s God’s work, we wouldn’t have any of this if it wasn’t for God blah, blah, blah” I started off by reminding him that I’m an atheist so what he was saying meant nothing to me, then I politely change the subject and then I lost my shit with him saying I really didn’t want to hear any more of it, which seemed to do the trick.

He’s still into his religion but has calmed it down a lot. In fact last Easter we ended up having a conversation about something in the bible and how it related to the Easter story and I was fine with that as the conversation wasn’t being forced down my throat in a “you must believe in this” type way.

To counter your point, the Palestine vs Israel debate for example.

Mostly Left leaning people (including Labour MPs) are seen openly chanting from the river to the sea, death to Jews and a lot of antisemetic views.

This is the current preferred view (let’s be frank it’s) so no one calls it racism or being far right. I find that utterly baffling as I’d deem it openly racist towards Jewish people. The pro Palestine marches have literally called for death to the Jews.

So I don’t think accountability works both ways. I think it only happens if your view isn’t inline with the perceived consensus.

No, you’re repeatedly missing the point. She has clearly said, more than once, that she could live with her friend’s views, but doesn’t want to be brow/beaten by them at every conversation and meeting. You’re the one demonstrating her point for her.

I think this is an edge case and a bit of a smokescreen. I won’t argue over it although I am a Jew with pro Gaza sympathies and have always advocated for the Palestinian position wrt Israel and US policy. In my experience, until just recently, I have received more attack for this position, in the US, than for taking any other political stance. But so what? As a Jew I am used to it. I can’t and won’t give up a hard chosen moral viewpoint because people say mean things to me. I don’t care. ”Here I stand and I can do no other.” Care less about bogeyman words used to silence people and more about politics and death.

I don’t believe it’s an edge case as it’s an issue that’s entered every part of our politics and is constantly talked about.

I think the point I was attempting to make was you said that “racist granny hates foreigners” shouldn’t be tolerated, but the left (I do believe it’s the left) are openly protesting for the eradication of Jews and that’s okay because they’re left leaning. I would say that rhetoric is as equally appalling as racist granny not liking foreigners.

The way I see it is it’s not deemed as abhorrent as you state granny is, because it’s currently the lefts position so must be ‘the right one’. I find it v problematic myself.

I know exactly what you mean, OP. When you say she's "hammering at you," I have a friend who's exactly the same. It's just politics, politics, politics all the time. She took a day off on Xmas Day but was back at it on Boxing Day, sending me some political thing from Facebook.

It doesn't matter what the views are, people who go on and on about politics are deeply tedious and should get a life.

I had to give up on a friend who became increasingly hard left, ultra woke and intolerant of any views that weren’t as pure as his own.

I agree with you. People have a right to protest but to see Jews being harassed in the UK and US is horrific. Jews have been shot, their businesses have been vandalised and they're harassed on the street because of the actions of a completely different country. There is definitely a form of left wing authoritarianism which comes out in lots of ways at the moment. And like you say it seems more 'acceptable' to say Israel shouldn't exit than to say all Muslims should be thrown out of the UK. I see them both as extremist views.

People in general. People falling out with friends, family, colleagues, strangers online etc over politics . It's surely not good for one's mental wellbeing to be constantly getting into conflicts.

I don't agree that politics "should be" discussed. I think politics are deeply personal, and what difference does it make if you discuss it with your friend or not? Both of you have one vote. And, if you agree, there's not much to say, and if you disagree, it will likely affect the friendship since one person is usually more zealous than the other.

I long for the days when it was a social custom that politics should not be discussed. I read the news and high-quality analysis in the broadsheets and I make my own mind up. I couldn't really care less what any of my friends think.

I also have a very good, very long term friend who has - shall we say, somewhat suspect views. But she suffers a great deal in her life, her DS who lives at home with her is ASD and OCD and is very controlling of her, so I think her sounding off about her views is mostly an attempt to somehow assert herself in life, when she can't at home.

I started just 'mmming' at things she said and changing the subject and she seems to have picked up on this and now doesn't really raise any contentious subjects with me.

I’m very much an in the middle person, centre left or so , however I’ve made a point of unfollowing several ‘friends’ on Facebook and not actively meeting up because of their hard left intransigent views which they like to push at me - at one point I was made to feel guilty for having a business - even though we aren’t loaded, rent and are in our early 60s! ( whereas he owns a 650,000 small but nice cottage) - to me people who turn absolutely every neutral conversation in real life to something political or only ever post about it and aren’t interested in other things become pretty tedious (unless you work in it ) doesn’t matter whether it’s left or right ( or even in the centre)

This isn’t that though? I’d imagine every time you meet someone turning it into an impromptu Question Time episode becomes tiresome, regardless of one’s political stance.

You have already told her haven't you? You asked her to agree not to talk about it and she ignored your wishes. That's not really very respectful of your friendship and would end it for me.

I agree with @BohoGarden If you’ve already told her that you don’t wish to discuss politics with her and she’s continuing to do it, that’s profoundly disrespectful to you and shows that she doesn’t value your friendship. Time to drop her.

My DH’s large family has diverse political views and they’ve agreed not to discuss politics. If you care about someone, that’s what you do.

@Heyhelga Those of us who are older have usually made friends quite a while ago. We don’t all think the same but are tolerant of opinions. Now we find opinions are too extreme for friendship. I’m not surprised the op is having difficulty.

Most people rubbed along prior to Brexit. I feel that was a polarizing game changer. Over the years, we have had robust discussions with friends on what were, at the time, mainstream policies and debates. We knew one Brexit couple as friends and put up with UKIP slogans in a neighbours garden. Not friends with them though.

Brexit has led to intolerance of reasonable views and I’m not going to accept being called names by supposed friends for having a mainstream view on something. We’ve always talked politics with some friends but not with others. In the past we knew we would never fall out and the worst I was called was a champagne socialist. As we get older, being comfortable around friends matters. So who needs the ones who support Reform? We don’t.

I couldn’t be bothered listening to her opinions and what she thinks. You’ve done well putting up with her till now. I would stop seeing her.

Many opponents of Israel's attacks on Gaza are themselves Jewish - indeed there is a Jewish opposition to the actions of the Israeli Government within Israel. Many Rabbis and Cantors in the US and round the world are highly critical of the actions of the Israeli Government.

But, there is a difference between the Israeli Government and Jews. You cannot conflate the two. Many young Jews in Britain eg disagree with the policies of the Israeli Government. The 'Jewish Voice for Labour' organisation also.

I have listened to the speeches made at pro Gaza demonstrations and the speakers are careful to distinguish between the Israeli Government and the Jews living all around the world. Indeed often there are Jewish speakers at these demonstrations , supporting Gaza people and highly critical of the Israeli Government.

I'm 42 and I remember the saying never discuss religion or politics in pubs. Today pubs are dying so social media has in effect taken over the role of the pub but everyone seems to have forgotten the saying never discuss religion or politics, and even go out their way to troll people for their religious or political opinions. Debate is good but only you have self control and maturity to respect other people's opinions without getting personal, which far too many people today seem to unable to do sadly.

Yes I was shocked a friend of mine from my hometown that I have known since I was about 15 came at me very aggressively because I mentioned an Eastern European country (in reference to talking about food)

She used this as a springboard to launch into a speech about how X country used to be communist and how labour was taking us the same way.

I tried to change the subject and she went deeper - all the rhetoric about Muslims, dangerous men off boats etc. I tried to discuss at first including some stats about how many of the August 2024 rioters had criminal backgrounds, then after a while of going round in circles I said let’s just agree to disagree.

But she went on and on, barrage of texts and voice notes. I was appalled. This is someone who I’d have described as compassionate and progressive before, she is also from an immigrant background and has mixed race children.

Haven’t been the same since with her and now limit our conversation to brief texts . Probably won’t see her again tbh

Now I don’t hate her or anything and if she was ever in need I’d be happy to help but I don’t see myself arranging a coffee the next time I go visit my hometown. I’d always said she could come visit me one day (i live about 5 hours drive from her) but now no way.

My lovely neighbour who comes over sometimes is Muslim for a start, I’d be horrified if she aired her racist views in front of her, then my neighbour found out I knew what she was like but had still invited her.

@Heyhelga I’m a lot older than you and we always discussed politics with friends 50 years ago. But we weren’t millions of miles apart and actually shared similar aims, eg home ownership. I’m very happy to have a debate about politics but we have had to remove a couple to Christmas card list only.

By the way, we’ve had several Home Secretaries who are anti immigration despite their families being immigrants. There is the “pulling up the drawbridge” attitude which is common.

Tell her you no longer want to discuss politics with her as you will never agree. Say you’d like to continue the friendship but you don’t agree with her political views and want to continue enjoying your discussions about more pleasant things

That’s sensible advice but these political views seem to exclude other conversation. Our friends don’t know about sport, theatre, music, or anything we are interested in. I think the op might struggle to find common ground.