“D”H, cinema, female colleague- update messages

[Anon1234567891]

A couple of months ago I posted about DH going on the odd cinema trip with a female colleague/friend and how on the most recent trip I felt weird/jealous about it. I didn’t think there was anything physical but didn’t know if it was a bit more than friends and felt that he didn’t prioritise going out with me so was annoyed he was going out with her.
We talked and initially he was sympathetic and said he didn’t want to upset me but I asked if he would show me his phone messages to her and he was defensive and cross and wouldn’t even though he said there wasn’t anything “inappropriate”. There were a couple of other things I found he had hidden from me not directly related to this which I was annoyed about but we tried to move on.

But it still bothered me that he wouldn’t show me his messages so the other day I decided to look at his work phone as I couldn’t see his personal one and found these messages on teams.

Relating to the cinema he sent a picture of one of those double lie down beds you get at some cinema’s and said “we could have done sofa bed but a bit OTT for the first date” - it was the “first date” bit that got me.

Then there was one saying “because seats recline going higher than normal please make sure you have underwear on - this time!” She replied “spoil sport”. WTF was that about.

There were also messages about minor work issues where he replied “you are amazing” and “you are always welcome” and one where he put😍after the message.

So is this work banter or something else, there was nothing like this to anyone else. He has banged on for weeks about how I should trust him but if this is on his work phone what’s on his personal.

And to the people that kept telling me men and women can be friends would this make a difference to that opinion, I couldn’t see him sending this to a male friend.

You are going through a crisis, and have been for months, its made you utterly miserable and constantly causing you to sway from believing in your conclusions and entirely doubting yourself. It's causing you to think maybe you really are just "paranoid" , over reacting or as he's said "menopausal" and that if you weren't, if you were wrong and just over reacting about nothing this would all go away. That's the outcome he is hoping for, for things to go back to normal without him having to make any concessions or changes.

So his preferred option means that you would have to not only to trust him completely, but to not trust yourself at all and if you can't trust yourself, who can you trust? Could you really be so out of kilter and mentally "screwed" that you can no longer rely on your instincts? How did you feel before all this started?
No wonder you are so upset.
I hope you continue to get outside support to ease this burden. I don't think asking people at his work is a good idea at all. Also, I bet she did not describe you as scary at all.
You are also worried and stressed about how your behaviour is affecting your children. You worry they will just see your misery. How he will spin it so they won't believe that you had cause to doubt him. How they will just believe him and blame you for rocking the family boat. I think children are savvy and can see there are two sides.

I'd be considering now if he's displayed concerns about the effect on your children... and if so what is he doing to fix this?

It comes across that he is more set on sticking to his guns on complete lack of culpability, than he is about the effect on you.
It comes across that his idea is, if you would just be reasonable and forget all about it then the whole thing will go away. I'd be thinking about how much genuine remorse has he shown for the visible distress he is causing you, innocently or otherwise and if his predominant emotion is similar distress, or annoyance.

Even if "innocent" he has caused this and he is not doing anything much to alleviate your distress, other than seeing it all as your problem, blaming you for your feelings, and offering easy tokens like the occasional bunch of flowers, a weekend away.

Maybe he is innocent. Maybe he just doesn't know how to handle it... but acknowledging your very real distress would be a start wouldn't it?

You are driving yourself mad here when what you need to do is leave him and move on with your life.

Focus on that - what are the barriers? how can you overcome them?

Me too, years ago.
A really misogynistic male professional environment and no way would this fly.

The poor OP has herself bend out of shape over him.
He sounds like a complete narc.
I think her energies would be better used getting organised to get out.
Calling Women's aid might be a start if she feels threatened by him.

Come one hun, you know!!! You need this thread to support that you aren't overreacting.

There is the remote possibility that they had shared messages that were banter and there was never any "romantic" intention. Now they have openly had a visit to the cinema, just the 2 of them, a classic date setting. They are sharing messages on teams that are totally inappropriate. It really does appear to be what you feared and even if it isn't, what they are doing is disrespectful to your relationship.

From someone that has been in a relationship where I was trodden on and took it, forgave and worked to fix things, it didn't ever work. Once a significant partner has tested your boundaries to see how much you will take....they know they have you and know they can talk you around and that you are not resistant to gaslighting.

Really, your question here should be "he HAS crossed the line, what next?"

Even if it's "banter" I would not be okay with my DH saying those things to another woman even mentioning her underwear, implying first date even if it is a "joke" it's totally inappropriate and this woman should be embarrassed to be behaving like this with somebody else's husband go get ur own man!. I wouldn't put up with this and this "banter" would he enough for me to leave. Complete and utter disrespect and disregard for you. Sounds like hes tempted and if she offered he wouldn't turn her down put it that way its just a matter of time

It sounds like your OH is cheating, and that he's allowed a breach of company data because he's not had proper security on his phone which has allowed you to access his Teams site. I'd report him to his company's DPO - that will teach him!

You need to stop shouting at the Op and allow her to navigate her way through what’s going on in her life her way. Just as you did it your way. There isn’t one rule for you and one for other people just because you finally got all the proof and answers you needed to satisfy you and come to the decision you did. You cannot get someone to do, by proxy, what you probably wish you had done much sooner than you did. You can’t change those days and shouting at someone to get them to do what you wish you had isn’t going to work. In fact if I was the Op I’d be ignoring your posts and your shouting. You sound hysterical.

Sorry OP but I agree with this - he needs a BIG wake up call!!

Right OP. I’ve read your responses now please listen

if he had nothing to hide he would have immediately offered the pin to the other phone or shown you. He’ll be willing to do that now as he’s had time to hide everything.

of course he’s getting flowers and planning trips because he’s guilty as fuck. He wants to sweeten you over so you’ll forget about it and he can carry on what he was doing.

his reaction and gaslighting will be hard to see now as you’ve had 25 years of it and you think you know his character. You cannot physically see this sort of thing when you’re in it. When you’re out is when the clarity comes.

I am almost 10000% certain this is an affair. Even if it’s not, the trust is gone. Is this going to be your life for the next 25 years?

signed, a woman who’s been on both sides of this.

@Anon1234567891 I am glad you are having the therapy and that the therapist also thinks he’s having an affair. You see? It’s not you going mad like your husband is suggesting or hormones or whatever.
You have received great advice after your post last night. Nothing I could possibly ass except keep going to therapy, a clear mind will make decision making a hell of a lot easier. Not sick of you posting, we are all sympathetic to what you are going through x

I've only read your messages @Anon1234567891

Have you made up your mind that your marriage is over or are you still unsure?

My advice coming to this thread now is to ask:

Do you trust him?
What would need to happen for you to rebuild your trust?
Would he do that? Are you sure?

If you don't trust him and don't believe it's possible to rebuild your trust with him, then your marriage is over and you need to make plans to divorce before he destroys you through manipulation and stringing you along.

It won't be easy, I appreciate there are difficulties which may seem unsurmountable right now but they won't be. See a solicitor, get your ducks in a row.

OP, no amount of therapy is going to fix this in your head, because there's nothing wrong with you. Your husband's behaviour is destroying you. It doesn't even matter if he's cheated or not at this point. Even if his behaviour is 'innocent' it's having a massive, negative impact on you ... and he doesn't care enough to make any changes to stop that harm.

It's time for you to completely emotionally disengage from this man. Because that's what he's already done with you.

You said you need the equity from the house to move, I’d be getting it on the market asap.

I can’t believe they’re still messaging each other.

I like others have worked in a male dominated industry for over 25 years and at no point ever would this sort of chat/messaging be considered friendly banter.

So sorry.
Hope you are ok.
No advice but sure others have plenty

His behaviour towards this woman falls into 2 categories:

1. They are having an affair and it is flirty banter
2. He is being sexually inappropriate towards a female colleague which makes him a sleaze (if it was this option, she wouldn't be responding how she is either).

Neither of these options are OK. Are you actually wanting to catch them having sex for evidence? If this is the case then that shows how much his gaslighting is impacting your judgement OP.

I remember a colleague years ago went home early in the day to find her husband in bed and the OW naked, hiding in the wardrobe. The husband still denied it....
Cheaters confronted will often lie, they have no incentive to tell the truth.

Exactly.
I have male colleague friends , I’m single , they’re married, we have plenty of laughs but never have “ banter “ 🙄 , like that, & we NEVER go to the cinema with one another or any place else for that matter .
Yeah , work lunch completely different altogether .

This is so dodgy, OP.

I agree you don't need to rush into divorce, but it won't hurt to give him a HUGE shock. As a pp has suggested, tell him he needs to move out for a bit, to give you some space to process all this.

I have just been reading all your updates from the last week or so and really feel for you OP.

I recently found myself in a position with some similarities to yours. In my case my DH had bought tickets to what I considered an overly intimate event (a candlelight concert). He was intending to go to this with a single female friend of 45 years standing who he was madly in love with for many years when they were young. Although they were never actually romantically involved.

I told him I was unhappy about this but like your DH he was defensive and suggested this was all in my head. I wouldn't ask to see messages between them because I know my DH is an intensely private person and would never agree to this however innocent any messages were.

Anyway I only bring that all up for some context. What i really want to say is how sad it makes me watching you tear yourself part over this. How your need for some sort of proof is affecting and taking over your life. I think you need to stop this for the sake of your mental health as it seems to have become an obsession for you. I think that you need to make the decision as to whether you want to stay in a relationship with your DH or not. I also think you may need to do this on the basis of the facts and gut feelings you already have. I understand that proof of physical infidelity would help you so much with this but I don't think you are going to find it, either because there isn't any, or it has been destroyed.

I also think that you talked to the wrong person in the OW's husband. I reached out to my DH's friend, against all my instincts, as I thought i had "hated" her for many years. It proved to be such a helpful conversation for me.

I wish you the very best of luck with whatever you decide. You can PM me if you think it would help.

Having been where you are OP, I often wished I'd been brave enough to give my (then) husband the huge shock I mentioned earlier. But i was so scared that he'd walk, so I didn't do it. So he rightly assumed he could carry on with his grubby activities, and that I'd protest weakly but let it go. The situation escalated to weekends away, and eventually they went on holiday together for a fortnight. Obviously that couldn't be ignored and it was the end.

I'll never know if a short, sharp shock would have done the trick (with hindsight, it may have worked for a while, but not permanently), but you can't carry on as you are. I did my best to turn a blind eye but i just couldn't.

I agree with this. It's not about 'proof'. You don't need proof. You can end a relationship simply because it's making you miserable, because the person you're married to doesn't give a flying fluff about your feelings, is disrespecting you and gaslighting you. Regardless of whether or not they've actually done the deed.

I agree with both these posters.

Regardless of the level this EA has reached or the proof etc...Everyone on this thread can see your pain. Why can't he?

It's been a huge shock, which you haven't been allowed to really get to grips with because of all the gaslighting.

Its also fair enough that you need time to process all this and consider what to do next. Keep getting your therapy support. Wishing you all the best OP.

You poor old stick, he's really done a number on your head, hasn't he?

OK, you don't have 'proof' of cheating. However, you do have proof:

• that he is more concerned about being in the right than about your feelings
• that he prioritises his need to be right over the effect it is having on you and your DC
• he can see you in distress and do nothing to alleviate it
• he thinks it's ok to send very suggestive messages to other women

That lot alone would be enough for me to seriously reconsider the relationship.

Whether you have proof is irrelevant. You can end the marriage based on what you do have. The face that he is not going out of his way to apologise, make amends for the hurt he has caused etc he’s made his choice and you have now have to do the same. You can’t save a marriage if he is not willing to do the same.

Stay in the marriage and accept this status quo. You basically have an open marriage. Whether that’s physical or not it doesn’t matter. There are 3 of you in this relationship. If he knows you will put up with it when it will probably become physical if not already. If this is what you want fine go away with him and work out the new normal for your marriage. Be very careful of your health both mentally and physically (STDs).

Or leave.

Sorry OP. If nothing has happened between them, it’s about to. Completely inappropriate communication. I can’t imagine behaving like this with a male friend and would be fucking fuming if my husband spoke to another woman like this.