“D”H, cinema, female colleague- update messages

[Anon1234567891]

A couple of months ago I posted about DH going on the odd cinema trip with a female colleague/friend and how on the most recent trip I felt weird/jealous about it. I didn’t think there was anything physical but didn’t know if it was a bit more than friends and felt that he didn’t prioritise going out with me so was annoyed he was going out with her.
We talked and initially he was sympathetic and said he didn’t want to upset me but I asked if he would show me his phone messages to her and he was defensive and cross and wouldn’t even though he said there wasn’t anything “inappropriate”. There were a couple of other things I found he had hidden from me not directly related to this which I was annoyed about but we tried to move on.

But it still bothered me that he wouldn’t show me his messages so the other day I decided to look at his work phone as I couldn’t see his personal one and found these messages on teams.

Relating to the cinema he sent a picture of one of those double lie down beds you get at some cinema’s and said “we could have done sofa bed but a bit OTT for the first date” - it was the “first date” bit that got me.

Then there was one saying “because seats recline going higher than normal please make sure you have underwear on - this time!” She replied “spoil sport”. WTF was that about.

There were also messages about minor work issues where he replied “you are amazing” and “you are always welcome” and one where he put😍after the message.

So is this work banter or something else, there was nothing like this to anyone else. He has banged on for weeks about how I should trust him but if this is on his work phone what’s on his personal.

And to the people that kept telling me men and women can be friends would this make a difference to that opinion, I couldn’t see him sending this to a male friend.

I don't know how to put this kindly OP, but if they hadn't deleted the proof I still think you wouldn't believe it and would still accept DH excuses for it.

Jesus Christ.

Get a grip OP. He’s cheating, at the very least an emotional affair.

Who are these wet wipes who would accept this kind of behaviour from their dh’s?

Get some self esteem and get rid of this cheating loser.

You will always get the incels and “cool girl” wives on MN who claim you’re possessive and needy and they’d be perfectly happy with their dh having female “friends” that he tells to not wear underwear and makes jokes about reclining sofas ffs. It’s all bollocks.

Stop letting him gaslight you.

@Anon1234567891 ,

A lot of people on here feel frustrated that you are so subservient to your husband that he gets to tell a pack of lies and you don’t seem able to give him any kind of ultimatum.

But, ultimately, it’s your life! And many people do turn a blind eye to a spouse having an affair under their noses because they like their lifestyle etc. And your husband doesn’t seem to feel guilt, so he can carry on being friendly and affectionate to you, simultaneously with her.

Ultimately, you can choose to accept it or not accept it. Maybe, it is something to discuss with your therapist. Personally, I couldn’t accept it.

That's a gaslighting tactic from your H. Make it appear that you are totally isolated, that everyone is in agreement with him and you have no one on your side or who sees your POV. It's not true, he's just trying to confuse you and wreck your confidence so you don't find your anger and he can take control in the situation.

They are clearly using another app to communicate privately - a lot of them are hidden and you can’t see them just by looking at phones etc you need to put a code in to actually even see the app - cheaters use them - my husband was doing exactly the same thing as yours and yep he was having an affair with his “friend”

Only read your posts OP but this does very much read like an affair. It’s brazen to use his work phone to talk to her about her undies and going on a date too. I don’t think friends would joke about this unless it was an in joke between old friends of the same sex or maybe a gay man and straight woman. It isn’t usual for heterosexual people to joke like this unless something is going on.

He must know there’s something inappropriate happening too else he’d have handed his phone over. Sorry OP, I can’t think of another explanation.

He's on a first date. He is not being too pushy or needy.

No. This is overstepping. Even if it’s ‘innocent’ it’s not acceptable when you are married due to the overly flirtatious vocab, bed, reclining seats, no knickers, this isn’t generic banter.

What do you mean?

And yet they are still sending jokey messages to each other.
He really doesn’t care about your feelings OP.
In fact, it seems like he’s trying to prove a point.

He wouldn’t send those messages to male friends as banter if he’s not gay as they would be quite disturbed and think he was coming onto them, he also wouldn’t send them to an elderly lady who he didn’t fancy but is just friends with as he wouldn’t want her to get ideas.
He would also know that would be a revolting thing to send his sister if they were going to the cinema.

He has sent them because she is a viable option and he fancies her, the messages are him flirting with someone where he knows there’s a chance of sex which is why it doesn’t seem wrong to him that they are just friends joking around and flirting, yet he would see my other examples as inappropriate or gross because they are people he has no sexual attraction to.

I'd tell him it's over, even if you have to live together.
He's lying. He's chosen to mentally torture you and gaslight you. He is buying time.

OP I really feel for you, there is a mountain of very well-meaning pressure on this thread, and the pressure in your own life must also be immense.
I think we are frustrated on your behalf, because only a change in attitude from one or both of you would change anything. Without a change of direction this will become a painful repetitive cycle for you.
I don’t think you need to ‘wake up’ because I think you already realise what the vast majority of us are saying, but you just want it to go away somehow without risk to your way of life. I get that, I’ve been that person, but if the wheels don’t come off now because of this, they will at some point and then it will be after months or years of this painful cycle have been endured. It will break you at some point OP. None of us want that for you, we want you to have peace of mind and a happy life as you deserve.
There really are only two choices in front of you: insist that this stops or the marriage has no future and you want him to leave, or allow him to have his friendship and stay in the marriage by moving forward and accepting his terms.
That really is down to you, only you know what is the most important thing for you personally, only you know what you can and can’t cope with or what you are prepared to accept and it’s not for us to judge you for that, you are in a crisis and desperate for support and telling you that you have low standards or are a mug etc in so many words is unkind and unhelpful, adding shame to an already excruciating heap of emotional pressure.
It’s ultimatum time or acceptance time, sadly there are no other choices, it really is up to you what you think is best.
Take care of yourself and do what is best for you, don’t act under pressure from a bunch of randoms, no matter how well-meaning, no matter how right we think we might be, on Mumsnet.

With absolute kindness - you need to give your head a massive wobble. You don't trust him FOR A REASON. And he's continuing to give you reasons. What do you need help with to find your strength and end it? And don't say proof, because if you can't see what everyone else is seeing, you're going to be stuck with a cheating liar, miserable, for life.

You don't have to jump straight to divorce. Tell him you want a separation and he needs to move out for a bit while you consider if you want to remain in the marriage. Perhaps make joint therapy a condition of this toom

This will hopefully shock him into realising you're serious and what he might lose, but could also result in him walking away so you need to be prepared with all possible outcomes. But he's not going to magically accept he was out of order otherwise.

Look, it’s quite simple really. You have 2 choices of where to go from here:

• either trust your gut and make plans to leave, or
• put this all behind you for now, trust him and forget about it.

Those are your only 2 options. He’s not going to confess to anything and he’s not going to suddenly say something that will put your mind at ease.

You can’t control him but you can control you. Stop tying yourself in knots and make one of the 2 decisions above.

The thing with "proof" - as I e learned to my cost - is that you're not going to be able to get it. However even without absolute 100% "proof", your trust is gone. The horrible suspicion with eat away at you and sour everything. You'll be casting your mind back over every interaction and trying to attach significance to it, one way or another. And even if you do find proof and present it to him, he would still bluster and deny.

The minute I presented my ex with "proof" (and even so,it wasn't absolute), he simply blocked me on every channel and has metaphorically filed me in a box labelled "the past". A total lack of accountability.

I agree! Would you be able to get him to stay somewhere else for a bit? It could very well be the end, but I think it requires some tough love if he wants to make it work.

All things considered it’s unacceptable that:

• They jokingly call their hangout a first date
• They talk about underwear etc.
• They completely dismiss their partners’ feelings

How would he feel if this was you and your colleague?

There is a strong suspicion of cheating, but the fact they are so brazen about it sounds like they haven’t gone there (yet) but might want to.

Just to add to this, he also knows that those are your only 2 options and he’s pretty confident that you’re going to go with option 2.

The woman who you confided in, who said you are imagining things and it is just banter is probably friends with the woman at work he is shagging.
Her reaction of apparently calling you ‘scary’ and ‘menopausal’ is extremely unusual. Also, she would have mentioned it to the women in question if she wasn’t shagging him wouldn’t she? She’d say: ‘ You might want to stop texting x (even though it is oh-so-innocent) as his wife is pissed off about it, she’s ‘scary’.

Yet, she hasn’t has she? As the woman is still texting your husband now….think about it.

This is a bit extreme and cloak and dagger but if you really want to know could you secretly arrange a babysitter and go to the same film showing, sit along the edge/in the middle, change your hairstyle etc so you're not easily recognised in the gloom. If they always sit at the back you would soon spot them and see if he had his arm round her etc/ acting as a couple.

Sorry just read that he's not going to picture with her anymore, so that's that cunning plan out.

I suggested this or wait nearby
But it seems the endless posts of advise has not been taken on board yet.
I hope as time passes she will realise her worth or be able to stay with him without it affecting her for the rest of her life.

I wouldn't ask him to choose, just ask him to leave.

I have worked in a very male dominated industry for over 20 years. Even very early on when today’s boundaries might not have been so rigid, this is absolutely not normal male/female office banter.