“D”H, cinema, female colleague- update messages

[Anon1234567891]

A couple of months ago I posted about DH going on the odd cinema trip with a female colleague/friend and how on the most recent trip I felt weird/jealous about it. I didn’t think there was anything physical but didn’t know if it was a bit more than friends and felt that he didn’t prioritise going out with me so was annoyed he was going out with her.
We talked and initially he was sympathetic and said he didn’t want to upset me but I asked if he would show me his phone messages to her and he was defensive and cross and wouldn’t even though he said there wasn’t anything “inappropriate”. There were a couple of other things I found he had hidden from me not directly related to this which I was annoyed about but we tried to move on.

But it still bothered me that he wouldn’t show me his messages so the other day I decided to look at his work phone as I couldn’t see his personal one and found these messages on teams.

Relating to the cinema he sent a picture of one of those double lie down beds you get at some cinema’s and said “we could have done sofa bed but a bit OTT for the first date” - it was the “first date” bit that got me.

Then there was one saying “because seats recline going higher than normal please make sure you have underwear on - this time!” She replied “spoil sport”. WTF was that about.

There were also messages about minor work issues where he replied “you are amazing” and “you are always welcome” and one where he put😍after the message.

So is this work banter or something else, there was nothing like this to anyone else. He has banged on for weeks about how I should trust him but if this is on his work phone what’s on his personal.

And to the people that kept telling me men and women can be friends would this make a difference to that opinion, I couldn’t see him sending this to a male friend.

@BuckChuckets I don’t believe him or why would he react like this if not guilty.

If there weren’t even messages about the first cinema trip then it’s more likely they are using a different app to communicate. There are plenty that have disappearing messages and plenty of apps that are encrypted or disguised, one even mimics the calculator app so hidden messages can never be found.

There is a very good chance they’re using one of these methods. I think the fact OW’s husband also has strong suspicions and isn’t happy with the relationship is proof enough that it crossed lines. It’s crossed the lines of both spouses and the happy couple don’t care.

He’s taking you for a fool. I’d be giving him an ultimatum of he either comes clean, or you’re done.
He hasn’t apologised, he seemingly doesn’t understand why you’re upset and as a pp wrote, he got her the job in the first place and you found a secret credit card.
It’s all there right under your nose.

If her husband suspects too then I think you know it’s true. Not finding many messages is more of a red flag than lots of communication. Like you said it doesn’t add up if they were organising a cinema trip.

How does he know messages haven’t been deleted? You can double delete messages on WhatsApp so it doesn’t show that the message was deleted. There are also apps that can be hidden or secret email accounts that can be made. Unfortunately it’s not proof of anything. But his suspicions for me would be hard to come back from.

Has your H actually said he won’t go on anymore trips with her or shown you his phone?

OP it looks odd because it has been doctored. I have found this to be true in life OP, it’s a simple thing which saves you hours of trying to ram a square peg into a round hole which is never, ever going to fit no matter how hard you try or how much you really want it to.

If it doesn’t make sense, it’s not true.

It’s as simple as that OP, don’t twist yourself into a pretzel trying to make it make sense. It’s not the original thread, it’s odd because there are chunks missing.

It doesn’t make sense (looks odd) because the only editing tool available after the fact is the delete key, you can’t re-script it. So what absolutely logically should be there, isn’t.
Mu husband did this verbally over a few things and my response of “ Come off it, nobody would react in that way/ do that without arguing/ make a comment like that out of the blue if you hadn’t said something to encourage it… “ and every time something he said didn’t make sense guess what? It’s because he was lying.

If it doesn’t make sense it isn’t true.

You don’t need any further analysis than that, I’ve found.
There’s all the proof you need, her husband probably isn’t going through the menopause or crackers either and hey presto, he didn’t like their shenanigans any more than you did (because nobody would) and her messages show heavy editing.
There’s nothing to see on her phone because it’s a piece of cake these days to hide conversations and messaging apps or go to a secret online email account, use private browsing to access it, vault apps which look like calculators or such like, which store secret photos/ messages you can only access with a PIN number, if anyone looks at the app it just looks like a calculator if you don’t type in the secret PIN… the only way to catch a cheat is when they don’t know you know.
When I found out my husband was cheating I kept quiet, waited until the next day when he went to work and I turned the house over like a burglar. His iPad, our PC and home laptop we shared but I hardly ever used had had both passwords changed.
Edited messages are yelling and waving flags at you and her husband.
It looks like, sounds like and walks like a huge six foot duck, OP.

There’s all the proof you need, her husband probably isn’t going through the menopause or crackers either and hey presto, he didn’t like their shenanigans any more than you did (because nobody would) and her messages show heavy editing

That's it in a nutshell.

Does your H know you've been in touch with her husband? If so, how did he take that?

@Anon1234567891 ,

The more you find out and share, the clearer it is that he is (at least) in the early stages of an affair, and, in all probability, he has been having a physical affair under your nose for months!

I guess that, on one level, you want to go back to ignorant bliss; but you can’t, not without a level of cognitive dissonance which will affect you psychologically.

So, can you move on to anger and confront him more directly?! You tell him that you are not mad and he lost the right to privacy and he betrayed your marriage vows by going on a date with a colleague. You demand (don’t ask) for full access to all his devices and passwords immediately, so no chance to go on a delete fest (although he may have already done that).

If he witters on about a point of principle, tell him that your marriage vows are a point of principle to you and that it is either devices or divorce-and mean it! He will still probably call your bluff, so see a solicitor and get the to get the ball rolling.

This is the only way to get clarity and either save your marriage (if you still want to) or actually separate and be free.

What is a realistic alternative at this point? I think it would be soul destroying to pretend to yourself that you believe his story and live with him continuing an affair under your nose.

I feel like the answer as to whether he is or is not having an affair at this stage is almost irrelevant…

Life is short, do you honestly want to spend your days with someone who makes you feel the need to analyse their interactions with another woman in this much detail?

You shouldn’t have to live like a detective in order to determine whether or not the 1 person who is meant to be on your team is deceiving you! Especially when you have told him being able to see the messages would put your mind at ease but he chooses not to allow you to (knowing full well you are discussing the situation with people outside your marriage?!).

I can’t help but feel maybe you would be happier alone where you can focus on enjoying your life, rather than being driven insane by the actions of someone else. If you have raised the fact his conversations have made you feel uncomfortable & he is not prepared to change, that says enough about how highly he regards the relationship in itself. Even if you get over this instance, you are unlikely to go back to the level of trust you had before?

They’re running circles around you both!!

He thinks you're letting him get away with it though, because you kind of are.

I'd get rid op. If he hasn't cheated then he certainly wants to snd she sounds keen too.

How can you trust him now?

If it's not with her it'll be someone else down the line as he either doesn't value fidelity or thinks it doesn't apply to him. You can't change this with ultimatums or anything else. It's who he is.

The fact that youre asking if this is normal tells me that your boundaries have been very eroded.

Hope youre ok. It's horrible I know.

Hello, sorry to post again as you must be fed up with me. You’ve all given great advice but I just don’t know where to go from here. I can’t afford to just up and leave. He is still refusing to accept any responsibility, came home the other night with a bunch of flowers and said he just wants it done and dusted! I didn’t say much as couldn’t face arguing again. Then he talked about going away again, he just thinks that it should all be forgotten. I said maybe it would have been “done and dusted” if he had accepted he had done something wrong, even from my point of view if not his and he still won’t, said he didn’t want to see me upset but still hasn’t said sorry. Not once has he said he loves me and doesn’t want anyone else like he did when I initially said about the cinema.
Tonight I noticed they were on what’s app at the same time and I asked if he had spoken to her, he said she had sent him a joke and he responded and he showed me. Guess he was telling the truth about that! Now I do feel paranoid about checking if they are online at the same time.
Saw a therapist on Friday and she thought they were cheating too. On the surface of it i didn’t see any messages before this time period and her DH didn’t see anything on her phone but I still think he’s hiding something. But don’t know what to think, I don’t want to stay in this state of paranoia. Will talk more to the therapist.

Op you know don't you your guts telling you,
You need to put all your energy into what you want now, this feeling will not go away because you can not trust him of course you carnt, .so you need to plan ahead op,

• can he move out,
• can you afford to live in home without him?

-CAN you move out, have you somewhere to go, can you afford to move out,

Op you love him but you'll never be able to trust him, that's it, he has done this op him being snug and not falling over backwards to reassure you, its on him,
But how much will you tolerate op,

You don't trust him because he's lied and been disrespectful at best, and cheated on you at worst.

And because he has not taken your concerns seriously, only nagged you to get over it.

This is your life now, going round and round in circles with him and in your own head.

Unless you want to live like this indefinitely, I suggest you start getting your ducks in a row. You will be better off without him - maybe not financially, but in every other way. If nothing else, you will have peace of mind.

Oh also I can’t get on teams now, surprise, surprise!

THEY ARE STILL MESSAGING ?? 😳
WHAT THE ACTUAL F@CK
“AND HE RESPONDED” 😳😳
WHY HAVEN'T YOU INSISTED NO CONTACT
WHY HASN'T HE PROMISED YOU HE WILL NEVER CONTACT OW AGAIN
DEAR GOD OP

And you only know they are still messaging, not because he’s being totally transparent and wants to win you back, but because you saw them both on watsapp at the same time and had to ask him 😳

OP, yes you can up and leave. You can't afford to stay there letting him erode away your mental health. Yes you may experience financial difficulty and struggles, but the amazing feeling of your freedom will be worth it. You are the boiling frog. Please OP, jump out of the pot and save yourself. This man does not love you. Love yourself enough to leave.

OP I take it you used to be able to access Teams? And texting and joking right in front of you? He’s royally taking the piss. He knows this hurts you but still does it. He’s being a total shit.
If you can’t up and leave you can tell him that’s what you want to do if it doesn’t stop or he doesn’t acknowledge that what he’s done/ doing is wrong. Flowers. Pfft. He can stick them up his arse and save you a vase.

Can you please give us your background as you don't seem to have told us - how old you are, how long together, are your children all grown/left home, etc.
Do you own a house together, do you work, etc.
I have looked back and it seems you have been together a long time with near adult children. Is that right? Do you have a job? Why do you think you can't afford to leave him?

I don’t think MN is helping you much at this point. You sound so unhappy.

You have all the answers you are going to get currently so you have a choice to make. Is it the end of your marriage or isn’t it? You can decide if it’s the end without proof, you can end it for whatever reason feels right.

If you don’t want to end your marriage then to some degree your husband is right. You do need to move on from it as it is eating you up. According to your own posts unhappiness is impacting the kids and put a downer on their Christmas. Messaging his work colleague was a bad choice.

I have no idea whether he had an affair, possibly it was the start of one. At best it was an inappropriate friendship disrespectful to both spouses that they became secretive about.

If you are staying in the relationship, sure be vigilant but stop playing private detective, it’s not healthy. If you are going to stay, and that’s a matter for yourself, then maybe do go on the weekend away, take a step forward, because at the moment you seem paralysed in this obsessive state. This isn’t a criticism, I get it but you do have some control over the situation.

I'm sorry this is happening to you. It certainly sounds like an emotional affair as others have said. If you want to try and maintain your relationship then he needs to end all unnecessary contact with her. It appears that he isn't taking you seriously and is dismissing your distress.
It's entirely your choice but is staying with him going to make you miserable?
Whatever you decide to do get some emotional support from a friend

I am so sorry you're going through this. For me, you seem to know exactly what's going on but unless you see ABSOLUTE definitive proof, you're not going to be able to make the right decision.

Are you able to install a keylogger type app on his phone?

I know this is super immoral but as I previously stated, I really don't think you're going to be able to accept what we can all see unless you have actual, undeniable proof.

Again, I'm so sorry you are experiencing this, I can't imagine how difficult this must be for you

fact is, he knows this is all upsetting you and could end the marriage but he still blatantly sits there in front of you messaging her outside of work time. If he really valued his marriage he wouldn’t be taking risks like that. He wants to take you away, but he doesn’t want to stop communicating with this woman. Those messages do cross a line. How would he feel if you were going to the cinema with a male colleague and having discussions about it being a date / underwear. Anyone would find those kind of conversations unsettling.

I’d tell him I find it hard to move on when he refuses to stop messaging her despite knowing how upsetting it is for you. He knows you can’t afford the bills on your own so knows he can do what he likes as he knows you will stay.

You might never get the truth. It doesn’t matter what he says or how he spins it. All that matters is you and how you feel. It doesn’t matter that he says he loves you or that he won’t move out. Take control. See a solicitor. Apply for a divorce. You can drive this. He’s used to calling the shots but that doesn’t mean you can’t. Best of luck. 🤞🏻