“D”H, cinema, female colleague- update messages

[Anon1234567891]

A couple of months ago I posted about DH going on the odd cinema trip with a female colleague/friend and how on the most recent trip I felt weird/jealous about it. I didn’t think there was anything physical but didn’t know if it was a bit more than friends and felt that he didn’t prioritise going out with me so was annoyed he was going out with her.
We talked and initially he was sympathetic and said he didn’t want to upset me but I asked if he would show me his phone messages to her and he was defensive and cross and wouldn’t even though he said there wasn’t anything “inappropriate”. There were a couple of other things I found he had hidden from me not directly related to this which I was annoyed about but we tried to move on.

But it still bothered me that he wouldn’t show me his messages so the other day I decided to look at his work phone as I couldn’t see his personal one and found these messages on teams.

Relating to the cinema he sent a picture of one of those double lie down beds you get at some cinema’s and said “we could have done sofa bed but a bit OTT for the first date” - it was the “first date” bit that got me.

Then there was one saying “because seats recline going higher than normal please make sure you have underwear on - this time!” She replied “spoil sport”. WTF was that about.

There were also messages about minor work issues where he replied “you are amazing” and “you are always welcome” and one where he put😍after the message.

So is this work banter or something else, there was nothing like this to anyone else. He has banged on for weeks about how I should trust him but if this is on his work phone what’s on his personal.

And to the people that kept telling me men and women can be friends would this make a difference to that opinion, I couldn’t see him sending this to a male friend.

EDIT: sorry, who are you?

My ex managed to do all this.. But still managed to do it again.. And again.
They just get better at hiding it... Hopefully that's not the case for you but all that's looks like the usual damage control actions of a man who's been caught and they use it to hide it better next time.

I don't feel you can ever really trust properly once it's happened once and you definitely never forget. Most people I know having been through this including myself we convince ourselves it's going to be ok and better than ever and we convince everyone else the same but deep down that shit never truly goes away and more often than not they do it again you just might never find out.

Um, yeah, sorry, I thought I was replying to the OP here.

I think the hardest part is not actually knowing what's taken place. If you knew one way or the other, you'd feel justified in taking the right course of action and not feel like you are overreacting to what you think may have happened.

My DH misinterpreted a client relationship I had. I hadn’t done anything wrong, but from a few messages and a work trip where I collapsed in bed and didn’t call (it was a grueling event), looking back, a lot of normal people might be suspect. Back home, DH confronted me and I was annoyed he mistrusted me. However, my initial reaction was, “FFS, here’s my phone and you have full access to all my email accounts. Have at it!” He was at a low point in his career and I am sure he was feeling sensitive.

Even if your spouse is being stupid and jealous, if you have nothing to hide, you don’t mind sharing your phone.

Wondering if this is my ex!
Almost exactly the same story to start with, have read your other comments too.
Sadly I would say almost certainly he is having an affair with this woman. Yes, he will probably tell everyone you're crazy if you leave him, yes his friends who are blinded by him will stay with him, but your people who know you and love you will know you're not crazy.
The whole "shes crazy/my ex is crazy" is a huge red flag and it 99% of the time means the person saying it is the crazy one.

Leave and be happy and respected by people who matter.

Am guessing from lack of responses on this question, op hasn't gained access to h phone or he has denied access to it ??

I absolutely haven’t forgiven him.
That may come in time, it may not.
OP - why on earth are they still messaging about who had a nice Christmas / New Year ?????
They lost the right to be friends when they started shagging and discussing her wearing panties or not and 🥰🥰🥰🥰 WTF ?
You simply must insist on no contact outside which is strictly professionally necessary for work (no phone calls or watsapp - work email only)
Has he given you access to everything yet ?
He didn’t give the phone when you wanted it - he knew you’d find something.
He’s acting all good husband now because he wants it all to go away and not blow up on him.
It’s not too late to go thru that phone - please do what’s been suggested - I’m sure you will find something.
My husband had deleted most of his watsapp messages by the time he gave me his phone.
I found soooo much detail of the affair via the other means suggested above.
Emails - type in a keyword or even an emoji - it will show emails including deleted
Key in 🥰 ?

Search her name
Search … panties
Search …. Cinema
Search ….. always
search any word u think they would have used.
Please get in to that phone - you will find what you are looking for. Get tech savvy - practice on your own phone - play around with it and you will see how easy it is to get non obvious detail.
Please share with us your reluctance to insist on accessing the phone.

Have just had another conversation with him as he knew I am still not happy and didn’t want to go away with him. He is still cross that I don’t believe his word but said he doesn’t want to see me upset but finds it hard that I don’t trust him. That this is how he is with the banter and won’t change and maintains that he did nothing wrong, even though I’ve explained how i feel about it. Also the female acquaintance that I messaged told him I messaged and he was cross as he didn’t know I had. She told him that she had seen me in a new light and that I was “scary”! And offered to show him the messages.
He said I had been up and down emotionally since we have had kids and he’s right and some of that is hormones but also he doesn’t see what he does.
he said her husband was maybe jealous as well so there must be some reason why we both feel the same.
he said he has been showing me his pin but I don’t think so as if it was that obvious I would have seen it and why not just tell me then.
He is either telling the truth or a very convincing liar. He’ll probably blame mumsnett for getting in my head if he knows I’m on here.

To be honest I did think telling a woman who is only an acquaintance to you but is a work colleague to him was a mistake! She's more likely to "side" with him on this.

He still won't give you the PIN. What does that tell you?

@Anon1234567891 this is gaslighting #101 to me. “ There’s no problem here, I’ve done nothing wrong, so I’m going to carry on doing what I like, so if there is a problem, it’s with you. You’re overreacting/ “scary”/ don’t trust me/ you’re boring because you don’t get the joke, you’re the problem, even my colleague thinks so…..
Sexual banter with a member of the opposite sex when you’re married is inappropriate. Even more so when it’s a colleague you see one on one socially. End of. No amount of telling you you’re the problem, no amount of shrugging and saying it’s no big deal will ever change that one solid fact, OP. It’s inappropriate and disrespectful to you.
Just keep repeating that to him.
Don’t give him kids/ hormones etc as ammunition, if he’s citing that then he’s seen it and should be supporting you through it, not doing things which will
make your mood and anxiety worse!
He wants you to think you’re hormonal, overreacting and seeing things that aren’t there. They are there! It’s a solid fact. If you went completely off your rocker and told him you think you’re Napoleon, it still wouldn’t make what he’s doing ok! If you were as calm and rational as Buddha it still wouldn’t make it ok! Because it’s just not ok!
Being hormonal still doesn’t make sexual banter with the opposite sex OK if you’re married.
Having mood swings still doesn’t make sexual banter with the opposite sex OK if you’re married.
Your reaction is a natural reaction to something he is doing which is out of order and upsets you, and rightly so.
This is all fudge and deflection and DARVO, putting his wrongdoing on you.
Ignore this crap. It’s the last resort of a guilty man whose rug sweeping and dangling treats in front of you hasn’t made you back off like he wanted, so now you’re overreacting and crazy. Highly unoriginal and stepping into the boundaries of psychological abuse.
Stand firm, the only reason he’s doing this is because he thinks no matter what he does, you wouldn’t rock this boat.
Time to spell it out OP. Do not engage in arguing the right/wrong now. He’s not going to budge until this has consequences.
State your belief clearly: this is not right and it crosses a boundary for me which I cannot and will not tolerate, then state your desired changes he has to make followed by what will happen if he chooses not to.
It’s scary but it has to be done or your life will be an anxious, sad, wary one full of mistrust, suspicion and building resentment.

I think at this point I’d be trying to speak to this woman’s husband if he is also having suspicions

I'm really sorry OP but he is lying. The fact he is upset you don't trust him. She said you're scary etc. This is all gaslighting and emotionally abusive.

Literally everything you are saying happened to me down to what you're being told and he's saying.
It wasn't until we ended he admitted he had been having an affair (his work colleague was pregnant (not his) and married) he went on to tell me it was my fault he did it. Those types of people won't change.

Even if things have changed since you had children, they're his too and he has probably changed too.

What did you put in the messages to the female acquaintance that are “scary” (I gather this isn’t the woman he went to the cinema with?)

@Anon1234567891 ,

You have the right to draw whatever boundaries you like in your marriage. It is not up to him to tell you what is reasonable and what isn’t.

You have a whole thread of random people agreeing with you and I don’t remember one agreeing with him. What does that tell you?

You need to find the courage to tell him you don’t care what he thinks is reasonable and he either accepts your boundary or it is over.

As a few of us have said, demand full disclosure and access to all his devices on point of divorce. If he attacks you, calls you a ‘mad woman’, ‘menopausal’ or anything like that, that is gaslighting and should tell you all you need to know!

Unless he can make you feel happy again, why stay in a marriage where you will only feel insecure and miserable?

I did tell him some of those comments cross a line for me even if just a joke, he still says he thinks he did nothing wrong.

He can think what he bloody well likes. It’s what you think about his behaviour that is important and it should be important to him, too.
In your (and for what it’s worth, many posters here) opinion, it’s wrong.
Tell him you’re amazed he can’t see how much this upsets you, and bitterly disappointed that your opinion, boundaries and feelings matter so little to him. Then tell him you’re considering your next steps within this marriage because you will not tolerate his sexual banter with another woman that you’ve trusted him enough to socialise individually with. He’s taken it too far. As a poster said, he doesn’t get to define your boundaries, you do.

I wonder if the Ow’s husband would be ok with the messages? 🧐

My response to that would be that maybe we shouldn't be married, then, if our boundaries are so incompatible.

Even if he feels he’s done nothing wrong, he should at least try and reassure you that he won’t be saying /doing something similar in future.

Also I just don’t understand why if it is all so innocent then why not just show me his phone and it would have put an end to all this, he said it’s the principle. So he would rather put the principal before reassuring me, and especially after he lied and hid other things from me, can he blame me for being suspicious.

It doesn’t make sense because he’s lying. He is lying, we’ve all said it. He is hiding and covering for the inappropriate relationship as he doesn’t want to give it up. He wants his dutiful wife and his bit on the side to take on fun dates. Even if he didn’t shag her, that should be a fucking line crossed for you. Stand up for yourself, you don’t need evidence. This isn’t a court hearing. You’ve tried to put it aside but you can’t, because you are very hurt. That hurt is real and he doesn’t care about it, he would rather defend himself and say he has done nothing wrong than accept that he has hurt you and hurt the trust in your relationship.

The hurt he has caused is real and you have every right to draw a line based on that.

Even the fact he seems to be defending OW saying she finds you scary - surely any decent husband would tell his friend “oh stop it, that’s my darling wife and she isn’t scary at all, she is upset at us talking about going on dates with no underwear.” He isn’t. He isn’t taking any responsibility at all, he is coddling OW and telling YOU that you have been unreasonable and are scaring his poor little side lady.

come on now OP. Stand up for yourself,

@MissDoubleU it was a different female friend that he was talking to about me but yeah he’d rather make out like I’m crazy. And of course she only sees the side to him he wants her to see. She reckoned he was one of the good guys but then she doesn’t see all this. Maybe he hasn’t done anything technically wrong but his whole reaction to it I think is telling and I wonder if some of it is about control. He doesn’t really have other friends he goes out with but he could have made more effort to go out with me if he wanted some socialising.
There have definitely been faults on my side too but rather than talk about it he would rather shut off and go out with other people. If I’m that bad a wife for all this I don’t know why he doesn’t just want to leave me.

He will only show you the phone once anything bad is deleted. My ex even gave me the email address of one of the women he was talking to so she could reassure me it was nothing more than friendship. Guess what? They both lied.

You will feel like you’re going insane trying to chase for proof and honestly if you wait for any definitive proof it will happen over and over. They get better at hiding things then they relax and you spot something again, and then the cycle happens all over again. But the more you go through it the more broken you become. It feels shit now but the best way to stop it is just to leave and ignore anything he tells people about you. Because he will never take the blame himself for any of his actions and likely never will.

Oh come off it (not you OP). As if he doesn't realise. Nobody is that thick. He just knows that if he admits it then he is saying he is in the wrong.

I'm assuming he'd be fine with you messaging a male colleague about wearing no underwear and going on "dates"?