“D”H, cinema, female colleague- update messages

[Anon1234567891]

A couple of months ago I posted about DH going on the odd cinema trip with a female colleague/friend and how on the most recent trip I felt weird/jealous about it. I didn’t think there was anything physical but didn’t know if it was a bit more than friends and felt that he didn’t prioritise going out with me so was annoyed he was going out with her.
We talked and initially he was sympathetic and said he didn’t want to upset me but I asked if he would show me his phone messages to her and he was defensive and cross and wouldn’t even though he said there wasn’t anything “inappropriate”. There were a couple of other things I found he had hidden from me not directly related to this which I was annoyed about but we tried to move on.

But it still bothered me that he wouldn’t show me his messages so the other day I decided to look at his work phone as I couldn’t see his personal one and found these messages on teams.

Relating to the cinema he sent a picture of one of those double lie down beds you get at some cinema’s and said “we could have done sofa bed but a bit OTT for the first date” - it was the “first date” bit that got me.

Then there was one saying “because seats recline going higher than normal please make sure you have underwear on - this time!” She replied “spoil sport”. WTF was that about.

There were also messages about minor work issues where he replied “you are amazing” and “you are always welcome” and one where he put😍after the message.

So is this work banter or something else, there was nothing like this to anyone else. He has banged on for weeks about how I should trust him but if this is on his work phone what’s on his personal.

And to the people that kept telling me men and women can be friends would this make a difference to that opinion, I couldn’t see him sending this to a male friend.

I don’t know really, I feel very confused what to do. I confronted him before Christmas as mentioned before and he wasn’t really sorry and didn’t see that he’s done anything wrong, said how hurt I was but he didn’t really seem that bothered more that he should be hurt that I don’t trust him. I had a miserable lead up to Christmas and have felt fairly miserable over it which has ruined it for me and the kids just think I’m being a misery. But wanted to try and keep the peace to have somewhat of a normal Christmas. He has been pleasant enough and doing stuff and basically just carrying on as normal. If I bring it up again he will just say that I can’t let anything go and always dwell on the past. Which is true but probably because he never takes accountability for anything or admits he’s wrong. He can’t understand why I’m being a misery either. So I don’t really know what to do from here.

Just act normal and keep an eye on him. This is why I say play dumb. Men will always turn it around on you and make you feel crazy.

He does understand. He simply doesn’t care. 💐

I used to be in your situation but eventually left....this was nearly 8 years ago.

My husband loved an emotional affair, as long as he got to play the knight in shining armour and he had his ego stroked he was all for them.

It didn't matter whether they were work colleagues, old school friends, friends of friends on Facebook or whatever. As long as they were needy and he could 'help'.

I too felt like you for a long time, he would deny everything despite me seeing messages, he would either delete the messages or on a few occasions he broke his sim card and/or phone to get rid of the evidence.

The cycle was that I would find inappropriate messages/signs of an emotional affair and would confront him. He would deny it and refuse to discuss it, he would then spend all his time at home in bed asleep and as the days passed I calmed down and swept it under the carpet (while always feeling out of sorts about it as well as worrying about his mental health and suicide threats) and life would carry on as normal.
A few months later I would find more inappropriate messages, always to someone different. I would confront him and he would deny it but would admit to the previous occasion...but would then refuse to discuss it and would take to his bed until it had all blown over, I would sweep it under the carpet for the sake of our daughter and life continued as normal.....until a few months later I would find more inappropriate messages and so the cycle continued.

Part of the abuse is to make you feel that you are over reacting and anyway its not even that bad and other people do much worse.

I spent 17 years in this cycle, I didn't realise how worn down and how severely impacted my mental health was until I ended things and could recover from it all.

Our daughter wasa teenager when I ended my marriage and I never thought she would forgive me...but she did and over the years the truth has come out and she knows what he was like...and actually the emotional abuse started with her and she has taken a very large step back from him and rarely sees him.

You are stronger than you think, just because he says you are making a big deal out of nothing doesnt mean its true - if he tells people this remember those who matter won't care and those who care don't matter!
It will be hard on your kids but they will be fine in the end.

It's a good idea to get legal advice in the New Year and then you can make an informed decision.

You already know that he is up to no good, kick him to the kerb and find someone decent.

It’s actually really annoying as he has been a really good husband over Christmas and if I hadn’t read those messages then we probably would have had a really nice time but perhaps he is being all nice now to try and through me off the scent and be all loving to try and make me less suspicious. It’s not like it’s the first time he has said something horrible one minute then the next he’s all nice.

Yes but sadly its all a facade, its fake, because of what hes done

I could have written this almost word for word with what I went through with my ex. The knight in shining armour for sure, but never for me when I needed any help with anything. I was lurking on MN at the time, not posting, but it was seeing others go through the same thing that gave me the strength to say no more and kick him out. The cycle happened more times than I would care to admit. He would take “a friend” to the cinema but never me, walk ahead of me if we went out together in case we were seen (turns out he had told people we had separated but still lived together for the kids) or send these other women money when we were struggling at home (he even lied to family saying I was spending all the money so he would get gifts of money to “help us out” but not all of it would come to us). One Christmas he bought gifts for me and someone else from the same place. A lovely thing for her; a jokey one for me. If we went out for a meal he would scoff everything within 10 minutes and want to go home again so he could speak to them instead of risk being seen with me.

It was just before Christmas, 13 years ago when I had finally had enough, and we agreed he would go after Christmas for the DC’s sakes. It wasn’t easy but it was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. DC were 8 and 4 at the time. We had been together for around 10 years and it started when I was pregnant with our eldest so pretty much most of the relationship. I’m sure there were others I didn’t find out about too.

I’ve since met and married an amazing guy who is a brilliant husband, treats me as a partner should (and understands how my past relationships have affected me so he supported me whenever I had issues related to that), and he’s been a wonderful step-dad to both DC. Their dad has moved in with different women getting further and further away and DC are lucky if they see him more than once or twice a year now. He did step up when it came to maintenance at least but that’s about it.

He's cool about seeing other women. He wants you to be too and just carry on as normal.
I get that him being totally normal and cool and nice makes it hard to take a hard line with him.

You can obviously tolerate this so my advice would be just start getting your ducks in a row and start preparing for the worst.

His behaviour will either get better or worse. Your feeling towards him will get better or worse. No need to make rash decisions...play the long game and be prepared. Then if he does push you over the edge or just leave,.you won't be caught unaware? Just some thoughts.

I'm getting narc vibes off this one OP. The lies, the gas lighting, the attention seeking, no remorse, not in the wrong in any way, the switching between being nice and not. It was 25 years before i figured out that I'd been in a relationship with a covert narc, they really fuck your head up.

Yes I’m starting to think that as well, it all seems to fit and he never thinks he’s wrong

I've had some shocking advice from relationship counsellors in the past ("It's not abuse if you don't put up with it." Excuse me?!), but one said to me that you can choose to believe him and stay, or you can choose not to believe him and leave. I think that was valuable advice.
He thinks that he's done no wrong, or he knows he has and is gaslighting you about it, but either way, he has crossed YOUR boundaries, and isn't putting your relationship first. I think you know in your gut where this is headed. You know you don't trust him, anymore (with very good reason), so I think you need to consider the 'believe or leave' advice. Your relationship won't survive if you carry on not believing, anyway. Or, more to the point, the relationship may struggle on, but it will be damaging for you.
Do you want to spend another ten years feeling like this?
It doesn't matter whether he's actually done anything - he's crossed a line and is dismissing your feelings, denying, gaslighting...
I've been following this thread, but can't recall if you are in a financial position to leave. I hope you are, and that you can base your decision on what's best for you, instead of practicalities.

Yes, I could have written both your posts too. However it took me 36 years to end it and after the horrendous grief etc plus his last affair was the final straw. When confronted with evidence the 'it's all a mistake' bla bla bla speech and I just knew I was done.
Friends and family noted, after the initial shock and upset, that my overall personality had 'changed' , I was lighter, more open and it was like my true self had been buried for years. Prob due to living with an insidious form of abuse that I never recognised as abusive behaviour.

And surprise surprise. He defaulted to the OW and then cheated on her a year later.

They don't change as this is how they get some sort of validation or ego kick.

He’s rewarding you for being a good little wife and turning a blind eye to his indiscretions

This is tipical gaslighting OP, if he was decent he would apologize for hurting you and make sure you know he loves you. This is a very unkind behaviour on his part with big red flags.

Yep.

This quote should be over in the thread about the betrayed sister.

Take it from someone who has been where you are, I read my exh messages to his work " friend" he is cheating on you.
I convinced myself it was just flirty banter but it wasnt he used ti love a good emoji too I had it out with them both , he gaslighted me , so did she. I let it go, looked the other way for the sake of my then 2yr old. I told him then, that I knew he would do it again one day and properly the next time and fast forward 3 years, I found out he had been having " flirty banter" with his work " friend" ( another one) it was all me, untill he admitted he was in love

💯I want to second this advice.
I would play dumb over Christmas and into the New Year, let him relax and think it's all blown over. Take the opportunity to get your papers together and get legal advice (the free 30 minute consult most of them give). Get an STI check.

❌Back in October you told us I also remembered that he met her years ago at a different company, then when he moved jobs he got her a job at his new place because she was a good worker. Also spoke to a friend about it and they thought it was inappropriate. And when me and DH had a chat about it, he said he asked her what her husband thought about it and she said he made a sarcastic comment.
I'm going to guess her husband already has his suspicions and that is why they split up. I also am going to guess this has been smouldering for quite a while.

📌You also told us in October that you found he had a secret credit card hidden away in his wallet.

✅You have more than enough reasons already to LTB and not worry about having to justify it. Play dumb, get your papers together, get free legal advice and get an STI check. Play dumb until you have a plan and then do it and give him no warning.

Just been told by someone I was asking some advice from that they think 99.9% of the population are guilty of having rude banter with friends whether married or not. Guess I must be the 0.1% then. Although she can’t stand cheats so says she would tell me if she thought something was going on. But I expect he has painted himself as the hard done by one.

What fresh hell is this

I don’t believe that’s true at all.

People tell rude jokes but I’m with you, sexual banter with a member of the opposite sex is flirting, surely, even if you don’t mean anything to happen. Flirting (sexual banter) if you’re in a committed relationship is a no-no to me too.
Love it when people give you a huge percentage when it’s just their assumption and they can’t possibly know that.
It’s often no more than a justification for something that isn’t right. eg the old assumption that everybody stole a bit of pick’n’ mix from Woollie’s when they were little being trotted out, to justify nicking something small eg stationery from work is no big deal. Just because a lot of people do/ did something still doesn’t mean it is/ was right. Any second now they’ll tell you how cheating is ‘nuanced’ and people on MN have a very black and white view of it. People’s circumstances during the affair might be the grey area, but it’s pretty black and white as to whether it’s wrong or not, or should ever have started in the first place.
Sexual banter is flirting, flirting to me is cheating and disrespecting your partner and your relationship. It doesn’t matter to me how many people might do it, it’s still not on and they wouldn’t be half as blasé about it if their partner sexually bantered with a woman they also met one-to-one regularly. Amazing how cool and not fussed people are until their Not My Nigel gets up to a few tricks.

Also this person doesn’t know the context of other stuff I’ve mentioned, so she only sees it from his point of view.

But maybe I am blowing it out of proportion and only seeing the bad stuff, I really don’t know anymore.

You really are not. It’s not ok for him to go to the cinema with the ow. He’s passing off “banter” but it’s everything else, the viagra and the secret credit card. You are starting to gaslight yourself now .., it’s what happens. I really recommend you seek some individual therapy in secret. And ignore what your friend said, she doesn’t know the context. Has you DH tried to take you in a date or invest in your relationship in the last few months. You’ve been neglected for so long I think you’ve lost touch with what healthy relationship dynamics look like.