“D”H, cinema, female colleague- update messages

[Anon1234567891]

A couple of months ago I posted about DH going on the odd cinema trip with a female colleague/friend and how on the most recent trip I felt weird/jealous about it. I didn’t think there was anything physical but didn’t know if it was a bit more than friends and felt that he didn’t prioritise going out with me so was annoyed he was going out with her.
We talked and initially he was sympathetic and said he didn’t want to upset me but I asked if he would show me his phone messages to her and he was defensive and cross and wouldn’t even though he said there wasn’t anything “inappropriate”. There were a couple of other things I found he had hidden from me not directly related to this which I was annoyed about but we tried to move on.

But it still bothered me that he wouldn’t show me his messages so the other day I decided to look at his work phone as I couldn’t see his personal one and found these messages on teams.

Relating to the cinema he sent a picture of one of those double lie down beds you get at some cinema’s and said “we could have done sofa bed but a bit OTT for the first date” - it was the “first date” bit that got me.

Then there was one saying “because seats recline going higher than normal please make sure you have underwear on - this time!” She replied “spoil sport”. WTF was that about.

There were also messages about minor work issues where he replied “you are amazing” and “you are always welcome” and one where he put😍after the message.

So is this work banter or something else, there was nothing like this to anyone else. He has banged on for weeks about how I should trust him but if this is on his work phone what’s on his personal.

And to the people that kept telling me men and women can be friends would this make a difference to that opinion, I couldn’t see him sending this to a male friend.

He’s cross because he’s been found out.

And just to add, he knows full-well he's done something wrong. If he genuinely believes those messages aren't inappropriate, why did he refuse to show you his phone when you asked? You know the answer OP.
Anyway, as I wrote in a previous post, some women can ignore their DH's repeated transgressions and you may be one of them, which is fine because you have to live your life in the way that works for you, not for any of us on MN.
Good luck OP. 💐

There’s a difference between righteous indignation at being accused of something you haven’t done, absolutely agree.
However, his reaction isn’t that at all, and his cinema trips with this woman don’t look as legit as they did considering the sexual content of the messages exchanged. He’s already crossed boundaries in that alone, even sexual banter, even if that’s all it was, even if nothing else happens, should be off limits, as it’s totally disrespectful to OP and their marriage.
He’s not just cross though, he’s not flat out denying it and cross because it didn’t happen, he knows OP knows what he texted and he’s minimising and trying to justify crossing a line by passing it off as a joke. For me even that kind of joking around should be off limits. Too flirty and sexual by far.

No because any decent man could see that what he did was something wrong and worthy of questioning. He would accept that it’s perfectly reasonable of you to have doubts given his behaviour witnessed and would then do what he could to comfort and apologise. The last thing an innocent man would do is get angry and defensive. Angry and defensive is the calling card of the guilty man trying to flip the script to evade being caught. You are now the guilty party, you now need to apologise to him. You now will never accuse him again because of what happened this time.

He can carry on however he wishes.

It’s textbook. You are being played.

If my DH was sending sexually suggestive messages to another woman he would be grovelling apologies or packing his bags. It’s that simple. He is in the wrong and he knows it, but he has made sure to hold the power.

I wonder how he would react if you openly discussed these messages and the context of his innocent dates with another, pantlss woman in front of friends, family, and people he respects. Would he laugh along emphases or would he e embarrassed and want you to stop? If it’s such a normal no harm thing to be doing, surely everyone outside your marriage would agree that it’s normal and not at all crossing the boundaries of any reasonable marriage.

This is a really good point.
@Anon1234567891 Why don't you send his "cinema friend" colleague messages to your family and friends (male as well as female) to survey their opinions on whether these exchanges are (a) inappropriate, or (b) harmless jokes. (You'll need to include the context of him going to the cinema with this colleague, of course, for them to answer fully.) My guess is that the majority will answer (a) and for the few who answer (b) you'll know that their moral compasses are as faulty as your DH's.

He wants to be able to behave how he likes and not be held accountable.

You are in the way of him getting (or remaining) close to this woman because you are holding him accountable (rightly so) for his unacceptable behaviour in a marriage. He does not like this, and therefore he is twisting the situation in a way that shows he has no remorse, and quite frankly the entitlement from him is astounding. The result is that you end up questioning yourself, doubting yourself.

He thinks and feels as though he should be able to do exactly as he pleases.

It feels awful, doesn't it, OP? That's your gut (please listen to it) telling you that this behaviour he's subjecting you to is very, very wrong.

Grown men should not need to be educated on how to behave appropriately in a relationship or marriage. If they can't figure this out on their own, without a woman having to spell it out to them, then they are not suitable for partnership.

If the messages are harmless then there should be no problem showing them to his friends, colleagues, family and HER husband as well. I mean if it's really nothing then there isn't anything to hide. I would definitely be sharing them with her husband though. He deserves to know his wife is dating another man.

OP, he is destroying you. You are strong and don't need him. Your mental health will be so much better when you are free of his manipulation. Please listen to the wise women on here. Many of us have been there and know the trauma of being manipulated, lied to and becoming an anxious mess because you doubt everything. You become a shell of who you were. Don't let him ruin you. If anything your DC deserve a strong, confident mum. And you deserve to be free.

@Milosc you and others are so right. And I feel guilty for being a bad mum because I’m being grumpy and miserable and they think I’m just being miserable for no reason.

Please send the messages to his cinema friends partner. And let him decide if you are overreacting 😆

He has been having an affair for a long time and you only found his messages recently and he has made you a laughing stock. Lots of people will know about this affair and you are the last person to know. Post all his messages far and wide, do not feel bad about this because you have only recently found out and this has been going on for a very long time. You are totally innocent in this: They are even sharing a "bed" in the public cinema. There is nothing private or secret anymore. Publish and be damned (not).

I was in a similar situation: everyone seemed to know about his strumpet apart from me. Sending you hope for your future happiness without him and respect for your awful situation.

He is guilty OP… In the beginning you accepted that he was accompanying a friend to the cinema because she had no one else to go with, is that right? You were probably made to feel/reassured that he was just accompanying her out of pity maybe and wasn’t really that invested in it. The messages do sound flirty and sexual, I’m sorry to say 😞

It's so hard to see when your in the thick of it, don't blame your self. You haven't don'e anything wrong - you just want to believe the guy your married to and said vows with.
He's the one who should be feeling shame/guilt - only he won't and that's the whole issue.

He's failed as a husband/ protector.

Like pp said - so many people are sadly speaking from experience of being gaslit ( for years ) not superiority.

@Anon1234567891 youre not a bad mum, you’re not to blame for any of this!
You’re an anxious and manipulated mum in the middle of a crisis and holding it together for your children is the hallmark of a good mum. If the immense stress of all this comes out in a bit of grumpiness then you’re actually handling it really well, inside you must feel terrible and because of the time of year it’s all heightened, cut yourself some slack and realise how remarkable it is that you’re hanging in there for them and trying to give them Christmas whilst you are tearing yourself apart internally.
Remove all guilt and blame from yourself, talk to yourself kindly in your head, hold your own hand and treat yourself like you would a dearly loved friend.
You deserve compassion and kindness, you have nothing to feel guilty about.

I’ve been following your thread for a while now. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
I’ve experienced a similar situation with my own husband and I feel compelled to tell you some of the things to be aware of.

Firstly, your husband is lying to you. At this moment in time, he cares far more about covering his betrayal that about you and your feelings. He has been lying to himself for however long this has been going on that it’s just harmless and you wouldn’t understand because you are unreasonable. He will also have been silently taking notes of all the times you have ‘wronged’ him as part of the justification of him having his ‘friendship’ with this woman. He will be trying to make you feel that you are mentally unstable and that the menopause or whatever is affecting you. It’s important that he sees you as unhinged and unreasonable as if you’re right about this then he will finally have to see himself for the sad, mid-life crisis cliché that he actually is. This will be far too difficult for him to accept without an awful lot of soul searching and reflection and he will have no inclination to do this while you are still available to him.

I’m not telling you what to do here, you are a strong woman who is more than capable enough of making your own choices. If you need time to process this then you take that time. There is no rush to do anything here when you’re likely still in shock. However it will save you a lot of upset and heartache if you understand sooner rather than later that his loyalty is not with you at this moment. He’s busy protecting his own ego and self image. Until he is willing to admit that he has behaved badly there is no working on this. He will need to do a lot of work to get to the stage where he can accept what he has done and he has to make an active choice to do that work. By the time he does that you may well have decided that you don’t care anymore.

I know this feels unbearable. I know that it feels like your world has been ripped out from under you. It’s awful that he’s putting you through this. I can only advise that you try and focus on yourself and your kids and do your best to keep a bit of distance between you and your husband. I truly hope I’m wrong but I’ve a feeling this is going to get worse before it gets better. Just know that we are all here rooting for you. Please keep coming back to vent and talk this through as and when you need. This place was a real lifeline for me when I found out about my dh. Best wishes op.

And you are not a bad mum. You’re doing your absolute best to hold it together while the life you though you knew and could trust is falling apart. Be kind to yourself.

You are not a bad mum. You are an incredibly hurt and sad mum doing her very best to hold it together for her children. Now you can find your freedom from him and there won't be anyone controlling you anymore. You can do this OP, you are stronger than you know. And you deserve so much more than he will ever give you. You are a diamond and he is an idiot who threw you away. You will be treasured by someone else who will know and cherish your worth. It is hell now but you will come out stronger on the other side of this.

OP - nothing your husband has done is your fault. Your decision to continue with this situation is, however, your responsibility. Would you deep down prefer the fantasy of coming home and catching him in the act with another woman so you could have some sort of publicly accepted ”justification” for leaving?

Oh believe me I will definitely be looking to get some professional advice in the new year, I don’t doubt what you are all saying and I’m not trying to ignore it and pretend it’s not happening. I wouldn’t want to catch them in the act as such but with all the gaslighting and twisting he’s been doing as I said before I would like some solid proof that he can’t worm his way out of. I know he will just make out to everyone, including the children, that I’m crazy, like he has already done and they will blame me if we split. Although the kids are teenagers and the eldest is quite switched on to this stuff so I think he may be more understanding.

You don’t need justification to leave, you say he will tell everyone that you are crazy. Surely that’s all the proof they need to know your reason for leaving- it will be obvious to everyone who cares for you that he really detests you and why would you stay with someone like that?

your defence is simple. He had an inappropriate relationship with a woman at work, an emotional affair. When confronted with it he refused to show you his phone, he turned the situation on you rather than explain the situation. When confronted with evidence his focus was again to blame you for snooping as opposed to explaining the situation. Since his treatment of you has been horrendous and you can’t no longer live in a relationship with no respect, no trust, no love.

i rarely say LTB but on this occasion unless he has a huge personality transformation in the near future I would leave. You can live your life with the people in it who actually care for you this man doesn’t.

Great post @PleaseVipersHelpMe , this is exactly what’s going on and outlines the psychological mechanics of any kind of cheating, or wrongdoing of most kinds actually.
It shows how people get rid of the cognitive dissonance of wanting to do something bad that they know very well they shouldn’t be doing, whilst desperately trying to hold on to their self-image as a good person.
“I know I shouldn’t be doing this, I feel shame and guilt, which I don’t like because I believe I’m a good person. However, if make it your fault, not mine, or if I convince myself that you’re ‘worse’ than me, then I’m justified in doing this and I might actually deserve to have this because you are making me so unhappy.”
Sorry you’ve been through this, @PleaseVipersHelpMe , it’s pain like no other.
@Anon1234567891 read @PleaseVipersHelpMe ’s post and reread it when you doubt yourself or start to believe him.
This man needs consequences for his poor treatment of you. Christmas complicates things because of your children, but by the end of this week it will be over. Hang on although it’s so hard, and once normal routine appears again I’d have a long hard think about what his consequences are going to be. He might not change at all, but he definitely won’t change without a big wake up call, he’s too comfortable and certain of you.

OP please re-read and read again both @Thewookiemustgo and @PleaseVipersHelpMe
Both these post are spot on. Wish you the best of luck, this will only get better when he accepts and acknowledges what he’s done. Please buy him “not just friends” by Shirley Glass and give it to him for Christmas - Don’t get him anything else this will be the start you need.

Please stop handing him absolute power over you.
You are settling for this to keep him there because the alternative is scary .
But you wont keep him because if he decides he is "in lurv" he will ditch you so fast you wont catch your breath. If its not her, it will be the next one or the next one. Because you handed him all your power there will be more.

Splitting will be painful, but infinitely better that living with somebody you cant trust. If you dont act now, you will never know a moments mental peace and living on constant high alert with with constant vigilance will destroy you. You will never feel safe. You will never feel secure.

Even if he doesnt leave, you will never feel the same about him. It can never be the same as it was before you were betrayed and belittled. You will be living a half life.
Please dont do this.

How are things OP?

How are you doing OP hopefully you were able to get a relax over the festive period. Thinking of you and sending a virtual hug