Would anyone be interested in an Emotionally Immature Parents thread?

[Thundertoast]

Sorry if this has already been done somewhere and ive missed it!
I do dip into the stately homes threads, but wonder if people would be up for a support thread for emotionally immature parents specifically, rather than narcissistic parents which is its own beast of a topic...
I know this time of year can be incredibly frustrating and bring up old wounds, so just in case anyone else is in the same boat, and wanted a rant/cry/chat, there's a mulled wine here ready for you.

Shout out to the amazing book on the topic 'Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, Or Self-Involved Parents by Lindsay Gibson)

I'll start: have the annual festive 'performance' with emotionally immature parent scheduled. Last years was a disaster that let to me for the first time in my life approaching them to go 'what the fuck was that, you cannot behave that way and expect me to want to spend time with you' (in a nutshell, sulking and nastiness all evening) which was met with tears and denial and more tears and profuse apologies and guilt laden requests for comfort, and since then any meetups have had a heavy air of 'im so very sad and small and tiptoeing around you because I just want you to be happy'
Of course, I have tiptoed around their rages and moods my entire life, and have always sucked it up to keep the peace and keep the mood light, even when they have behaved like a sullen teenager, so the fact they are now behaving like a wounded animal does not induce sympathy in me, just annoyance and frustration that they cant suck it up and think 'Although im sad, my child shouldn't have to continue to deal with my feelings about me upsetting them'

Hope that if anyone's out there and in a similar boat they can come along and commiserate!

COVID was great because we could legitimately not have her for Christmas. Since then she still comes for Christmas but I book them into a hotel as 'my treat'. She gets to feel special and we get the house back.
It hasn't stopped the 'if only you lived closer...' whining because like you 100 miles and back is doable in a day without having to stay overnight. Any closer she'd be dropping in.

Solidarity for everyone in here. I'm a few years on perhaps, in the sense that my mum and her boyfriend (who lived in our house for over a decade but was very clear that he was mums boyfriend and not step dad, because he seemed to have the maturity and accountability of a teenager) - both passed away a few years back. It does get easier, it is easier to accept that you don't have any support when someone is dead, rather than them just being a bit shit. It's also easier when you only have to emotionally support yourself, not other adults who should know better.

Years on though and things still occasionally come up and make me realise how bonkers it all was. Recently in a group of friends we were talking about the age that children stop believing in Father Christmas. I mentioned that I found out disappointingly young, after my older sister told me. My mum, instead of trying to brush it off and keep the magic, was really happy because she had been so peed off that she was the one buying and wrapping presents and she didn't get thanks for all of it. Yes, she was jealous of father Christmas, and was gleeful when she could stop pretending.

I'm now probably a similar age to what my mum was back then, and it absolutely baffles me how someone could be so petty and insecure. Obviously there was a lot more to it than that, but thats a festive example!

Thank you for your kind words, @Thundertoast . Yes, we’re doing ok, all things considered, though we both have our health struggles and my DH and I have family problems. (Long story, connected with our 2 DDs.)

This does sound like my DM. I remember her making a fuss about not getting the credit when my DSis still claimed that pressies in the stockings came from Santa! She would have been 9-10 at that point and might have been pretending by that time.

Such a petty thing to get upset about.

@LizzieW1969 it's weird isn't it? I could understand a parent being frustrated if a child was ungrateful, or disinterested in presents they'd worked hard to afford. But to see your children happy and be annoyed that you're not able to go on about it being you... And that is literally what happened when my sibling announced it, I have a definite memory of my mum going on 'Yes it was me, I did that, and I didn't even get any thanks for it, I don't have to pretend now'. I think I was around 6. Even before that we'd still had the line that parents send money to the elves to make the presents, and there was a main present from a parent anyway, so it's not like she was ignored.

Her main immaturity though was around my dad, her ex husband. Everything bad that ever happened was blamed on him. I've mentioned this on Mumsnet before but she even hated my name because he chose it, told me my bad eyesight and bad teeth and things I didn't like about my looks were all from him. Yet somehow she completely ignored the massive red flags about her current boyfriend because she didn't want to be on her own with kids. As I've got older, I can't comprehend her way of thinking at all, it's utterly alien to me!

After reading these posts, I'm finding some comfort knowing I am not alone in the world.

My story would be outing as I've shared (trauma dumped) it with many friends, so I won't go into detail. Therapy has helped me realise I was forever in a state of fight or flight and regularly trauma dumping on everyone around me. Thankfully I've worked through this now and the trauma dumping has stopped, although the horrible memories and thoughts do tend to flare up around this time of the year.
it's probably some kind of PTSD from being raised by emotionally immature adults.

Having my own children has been such an eye opener. I constantly ask myself how an adult could treat a child the way I was treated. It's bat shit.

It's a very hard thing for anyone that has never experienced it to understand so I'm glad I've found this post.

I was nothing but relieved when my parents died. The weight of the world was lifted off my shoulders and I could finally live my life for me (even though I was no contact before their deaths for a decade) Their deaths were needed for my freedom. Freedom from the mental torture. When you try explaining your feelings to others with 'normal' parents, their reactions are interesting. They can't possibly comprehend the feelings of joy that are felt over an emotionally stunted parent dying.

@BIGshoeBIGshoe i could have written your post. I agree how reassuring (but sad) it is to find people who have had the same experience. When I first dated DH, when we got back from meeting people, I would hold my breath waiting for the telling off. It never came and I realised that the being pulled apart by ny mother was not normal. She would dissect every action and remark made. I could not win by saying nothing, as I would be accused of being surly, rude or sulking.

I have been with DH almost 60 years and he was the first person who ever made me feel safe.

@BIGshoeBIGshoe I know exactly what you mean. Around this time of year I'll sometimes find people will ask about family, and if I mention that my mum passed away years ago but that she had her difficulties and we didn't get on, people will still remark about how difficult it is to lose a parent as a young adult, and how hard it is to be without a parent at Christmas. This includes colleagues which given I work in children's safeguarding you'd think they might pick up the hint about 'difficulties', but in reality it was like a weight had been lifted when she died.

I've only ever really celebrated Christmas as an adult since then - when she was alive, refusing to see her was too contentious, but going wasn't safe, so I always picked up shifts over Christmas (working in hospitals etc) so I had a reason not to go. It's so much easier now I don't have to deal with all that. I don't miss having support of a parent as I genuinely never felt I had any support (beyond being fed and houses) I had the emotionally responsibility for both of us from a young age, and knew never to share anything with her because it would make things worse.

Ah, Christmas. I think I was 19 when my mum first sniffled that it "wasn't the same any more now you're not at home" - I think that was the year that I dare suggest coming on boxing day instead as I'd been invited to my boyfriend-at-the-time's family Christmas, and it was a long drive for him to do both in one day (but also, their house was a much calmer and welcoming place to be). A couple of years later I was single but suggested I might and keep a friend company on Christmas day as she was having a hard time (which would have been really nice for me too) and was told I shouldn't get "too emotionally involved", i.e. shouldn't choose someone else over 'family'.

These days I'll get a "well, it isn't really a special day any more, is it?" because she'll be on her own. Today I got the annual parcel which will be full of random bits and pieces that I can't really use - I got ponytail bands when my hair was really short, I get food I can't eat because of intolerances, and yet she'd be so scathing if anyone bought her an 'unsuitable' present. I also got a card forwarded on from the relative I'm NC with - at least she hasn't passed on my address without permission as she has done in the past. But there is a message from said relative saying that I should buy myself a birthday present (it's soon) in lieu of buying her a Christmas present - I haven't bought her a Christmas present, sent a card or made any sort of contact in about ten years... and my mum knows this but there'll be some sort of "well, I had to pass the message on".

I do dread both of these two passing away because there will be two horrendously messy, badly maintained houses packed full of rubbish to sort out, plus a lingering legal mess from an older relative's will that they refuse to deal with because it's "too difficult and upsetting" i.e. they won't just step up and be adults. (On the flip side, my dad has been really proactive about his will, power of attorney, paying for a funeral plan and making sure I've got access to all the info and funds I will need when that time comes).

There was another thread on here about "your inner critic". I realised this is my mum's voice. I don't think it when socialising (that was the example) but I was asking a friend for a favour and I could just hear my mum's voice saying "are you being rude. You are being so rude" and then I possibly over compensated but I have no idea if it was too much or not!

This time of year is so tough - you are encouraged to have a life they can talk about to friends. But not if it 'impacts' them in any way. Thats good to hear that the financials are at least in order...
My parent spent many years saying it was if course fine if we changed the date of the annual christmas meetup (that i always ended up organising because otherwise parent would leave until 2 days before - they were most affronted when i switched to a 'whats the plan? Approach' and refused to do the work for them after doing it myself since i was 20) and then when i did ask for the date to change (in my early 30s, so LONG past the usual time that family plans changed etc) they sulked. I reminded them they had always told me it was fine to change if needed. They looked annoyed but dialled back the sulking a bit.
This year I went nuclear and said 'I am getting other invitations, if you do not organise a date and time by xx date near the beginning of December I will start accepting other invitations and you risk not seeing me' they openly said 'I dont like to make plans too far in advance, it gives me anxiety' (me me me me me me) and missed the deadline by a week. I will admit that I am finding new ways to test out my boundaries on this issue so will continue to press them to get organised, because after working to meet their needs at the detriment to my own my whole life, its about time.

This 'i dont like to make plans in advance' is an ongoing issue, as they will text me with 2 days notice of a weekend day asking to meet up and then guilt trip me if im not free or say 'it would only be a quick coffee for an hour' but then would refuse to give me an exact time until the day of. Which i have now started countering with 'it needs to be at x time' I am a flexible person who doesnt mind last minute plans at all, my issue is that its all their way, and they do not consider that I have a life outside of them, and they want to have a casual 'dropping in' relationship with someone because its what THEY want, not because its mutually convenient and desirable for both parties.

Good on you for keeping your boundaries @Thundertoast

You have absolutely hit the nail on the head with this - "you are encouraged to have a life they can talk about to friends" - my mum loves to show off about my achievements (the ones she approves of anyway), I guess she thinks they reflect well on her. She gets upset if her friends don't pay enough attention when she talks/ posts about them - whereas I realise that most people aren't really that bothered about what their friend's children are up to beyond a passing, polite interest.

@Thundertoast
So much of your post is familiar to me!
My parents will only visit us if it coincides with an errand they’re running anyway - and will only text us 2-3hours ahead of time with no set time. I have had to leave the house to take a kid to a club and passed them on the road because they came so much later than I expected.

This year I am refusing to be the organiser and as such there’s no plan in place. They haven’t asked what days I’m working or anything.

My mum has been in contact a little this week because she’s been unwell. At the risk of sounding unsympathetic, I don’t think she would have been in touch if she didn’t have that ‘news’ to tell me. It’s like she thinks she can’t just text to say hi, how are you, there has to be a greater purpose IYSWIM. I get that it’s her self esteem but it’s not really my responsibility to fix.

The irony is that I’m usually happy to be the organiser - I like to have dates in the diary to work around. But a few years ago when trying to pin them down to meet up while my sister was visiting my DM went totally apeshit at me out of the blue, having a go at me fr actually I don’t even know what. Made me feel like a right sergeant major for the sin of wanting to see my family. So that’s put me off TBH!

Since I’ve been with my now husband we’ve tried to keep every Xmas different so that no one ends up with expectations upon them.

Really interested in this thread - haven’t had a chance to post yet but have been reading with interest and I’m sorry that so many of you have had these experiences. It’s amazing how prevalent this kind of behaviour is, but in a way kind of reassuring that none of us are alone?

My mum has always been extremely volatile in her behaviour and my dad will always defend her. It’s just how she is/I’m too sensitive/I need to leave the past in the past and try to rebuild a relationship - but she never reflects on her behaviour or apologises for anything, it all relies on me rolling over or grovelling etc, which I don’t really do any more. Our childhoods were characterised by her strops or rages, she could go days without speaking to any of us and casting this miserable atmosphere over holidays, birthdays, Christmases. We often didn’t know what we’d done, or if we did, it was usually a huge overreaction on her part. Just awful for young children to grow up like this. Edit to say that I was an incredibly timid child who barely spoke at school, so not ‘naughty’ or bad in any usual sense.

She was and is extremely intrusive re. boundaries (she has none - would go through my things and leave out personal items on my bed so I’d know that she knew about them IYSWIM). When I was home from uni once, she complained that she didn’t know what sort of underwear I liked to wear any more, and told me she didn’t believe I was blind enough for contact lenses (which I bought with my own money).

Like a PP said (I think), I don’t want money or gifts from them because I would feel beholden to them. Practical help is never on the table - mum will stand and watch me try to get the baby into the pram or rainsuit or watch me juggling bags or whatever and never offer to help.

I actually had a note on my medical records when I was in hospital for the birth that I didn’t want her anywhere near me if she tried to turn up. It’s actually a large part of why I wanted an ELCS (as well as baby being breech), because it meant that I had some control over when I went in and how long I’d be there, so she couldn’t turn up during labour and stall it.

I actually feel so repulsed by her presence that I know labour would’ve stopped immediately if she’d turned up. I know that’s an awful thing to say about one’s mother but she’s behaved so dreadfully over the years that I actually have no love for her any more.

Tbf she called it years ago when I was summoned to their house for a kind of ultimatum about not seeing them more frequently (I was trying to reduce contact because they were being so awful about me living away from home after graduating uni and meeting my now-DH aged about 23-24). She was sobbing all over me (there’s that revulsion again 🥴) and begging me to tell her I loved her, and when I said I did, she stopped crying in an instant, looked me right in the eye and said ‘I know you hate me’.

Being brought up by these people has been so so damaging and yet I’m expected to play happy families with them and pretend everything’s fine.

The woman told me during my pregnancy that she would ‘hijack’ my baby from nursery and told lies to the rest of my family that we hadn’t shared my scan dates with her (because she’s entitled to that information - the reason I remember that she actually had the dates is because I didn’t want to tell her but DH shared them without thinking, because his parents are normal and not insane).

And breathe. I’m going back to therapy in January and actually can’t wait. She’s been ruining my mental wellbeing for far too long.

Also mum’s massive jealousy of my MiL which is getting harder to manage as MIL also does a day of childcare a week for us, so she sees more of DGC because of this (but also because she’s not an emotionally damaging DGM!). Everything we mention doing, mum will say ‘just the three of you?’, i.e. not PILs too, and now I just say yes even if it’s not the case, because I can’t be arsed with the moping or face-pulling or messages from my dad to ask me to include my mum more.

So sorry you had to deal with that, you deserved and do deserve better. Why do they think they have such control over us they can just snap their fingers and we come running? Its awful. I also just lie or dont mention if we've seen my other parent, or my in laws, because I cant deal with the sulking - it then means that immature parent knows even less about my life, but thats a situation of their own making, as always.

Just a general check in for everyone - how are you all doing, in this run up to Christmas? Hope that you are all doing okay with any festive meetups - I know the feelings of dread and 'lets just get this over with so I can breathe a sigh of relief and enjoy the rest of the season' well...

Can I join in with wishing you all a stressless time. I hope it helps having community to give advice, add empathy and just give us space to rant.

This is exactly how I feel today. My brother is coming today, he's one of the flying monkeys, and I know it's just to find out more information about what's going on in our lives so he can tell my mother. I've said that I have to work, so will dip in and out when I need a breather. I also have a nice bottle of wine to open once everyone leaves, and it's just me and my immediate family.
My dad (divorced from mother) has offered a 'de-brief and hot chocolate' later, which I love.

My Christmas will start tomorrow afternoon when I've done my bit - visiting with people who don't like me. I'm excited for that

Thanks for starting this thread, I feel seen!
At this time I’m so graceful to live abroad
and therefore miss
all the Xmas drama

I don't have any meet-ups planned - I am on edge as to whether my mum will decide she wants a Christmas day phone call or not. The last couple of years I've got away with some messaging through the day, which is easier to handle.

I have sometimes seen the other side of the family around Christmas, but yes, that then brings the issue of having to lie/ not mention it. And dealing with conversations from dad's partner's family about the weirdness of it all (they can't understand why I will do my absolute best to avoid bumping into my mum when visiting, as they live not that far apart).

What is harder this year is some ongoing health problems which mean I can't do my usual long walks and other activities for this time of year, which I have to admit are partly a distraction from not having a nice/ 'normal' family Christmas.

My parents sound alot like this. I've also been told that I'm too sensitive and bring stuff up from the past, to move on. They don't seem to get it, they do not accept any responsibility or accountability for how they treat other people.They still expect me to be there at Christmas. I too get given lots of presents. But it doesn't undo what has been done.

Thank you for your concern. Update is that the PET scan is clear which means the biopsy should also be clear. Although they still think there's something going on its unlikely to be cancer. This means I am now free to devote my time to her residual cough (from the cold she had last week). Have successfully avoided a visit at Christmas by saying no, you're not coming. She responded with 'I knew you'd say that' and sulking but I don't care any more. I've told her I don't want to risk catching her cold which she has kindly given to her husband and my brother so I'll visit after Christmas. If she hadn't made such a fuss about the cold maybe I would have visited or let them visit but as it was the worst cold ever (sometimes her hyperbole rivals Donald Trumps) I need to look after my health.
Thank you for starting this thread. I appreciate there was a lot more violence in my childhood than others have experienced but actually physical injuries heal far quicker than the emotional damage done to us; that can take a lifetime. I hope everyone manages to find some peace over the holidays 🎄

Sorry you're having a tough one this year - I hope you can find something else to distract you over the period, might not be for everyone but ive found making old school paper chains very soothing this time! That must be hard, having to deal with other people not taking the hint its not a good topic.

Sorry you're having a tough one this year - I hope you can find something else to distract you over the period, might not be for everyone but ive found making old school paper chains very soothing this time! That must be hard, having to deal with other people not taking the hint its not a good topic.