In shock, should he leave?

[Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo]

Sorry if this is a bit muddled, I’m honestly in shock. We’d actually been getting on better recently, he was finally making an effort, and then today he suddenly announced he wanted out, and doesn't see a long term future with me.

We’ve been together 12 years, two DC still at home, 7 and 9. The marriage had been hard because he gets incredibly grumpy, makes no effort, but we had been going to therapy and I thought things were getting better. We've just had a wonderful week away together.

So first of all, I'm feeling blind sided, has anyone had this? I feel so torn like I should try and save it. My therapist did say he was emotionally abusive, so I probably need to give my head a wobble. I thought maybe she was over reacting.

Also, he doesn't want to leave. He wants to stay in the house for 6/7 months if needed, whilst we figure things out! I can't do that. I can't pretend we're ok, it will be so much harder to get over! He's the one that wants out and works away all the time, can I ask him to leave? I'm primary carer, pick up all the slack and work from home.

OP, what would happen if you went to stay with a friend and say you cannot live with him anymore and will not return to the house unless he goes to live elsewhere? When he asks how is he supposed to work with the childcare responsibilities, you respond you believe the solution is for him to leave so that you can take over childcare as usual.

Yes, remove yourself for 50% of the time- tell him- eg from Thursday morning to Saturday evening, or Saturday evening to Thursday morning, or every other week. Let him experience real 50:50 care. Say you want to try a ‘nesting’ arrangement for the children’s sake. This would remove his sense of control and relaxation because while being very amenable to what he says he wants, you are actually showing him what that will mean for him, and forcing him to accept the consequences of his choices. (Obviously, if he kept the house and you could only afford a 1-bed flat, you couldn’t have the kids there while he is off doing his Big Career, so you would have to move back in with them to look after them or he’d have to fund a nanny.)

Thanks I needed to hear this, I'm so used to him calling the shots I'm just sort of going along with it! Mediation can't come soon enough...

I see what you're saying, but he'll say oh no you don't want to see the kids then? He'll turn it around one me if I leave. But you're right, I need him to FEEL what 50/50 is actually like!

Tonight he forgot to take a child to a club until I reminded him!

And if he does try to turn it around on you? So? Don’t engage with him. His opinion of you is an irrelevance.

God I've been trampled down so much by him I'm just conditioned to do what he wants, you're all helping me see sense. Thank you so much to all of you who have commented and given advice, I really appreciate it.

I would have let him forget and then at the last minute say to your child, “Has your father not taken you to …, guess I’ll have to step as I know how important this is to you” and then leave your DH a voicemail in front on your child telling him not to worry as you’ve stepped in and get your child to say bye so he knows your child is fully aware.

If it's owned jointly, neither party can just get the other one out. A court will decide who does what,

call it like it actually is - domestic abuse! DONT do mediation with an abusive partner!!! Financial Abuse and especially coercive abuse is now actually a prosecutable offence

Thanks for this, I think I'm finally coming to terms with the fact this might be the case. It's all so small and insidious it's gone under my radar a bit... I know how I FEEL around him, walking on egg shells, like I'm always in the wrong.

He told this morning I wasn't allowed to use the toaster because I burn stuff, (not true), he told me I can't move a lamp, even though it would make sense, because he didn't like it... then in front of the kids just now he said I wasn't allowed to use some chicken because it was 'his', despite everything being joint! I said I'd get some more tomorrow, and he said 'no you won't, I know you'... really undermining me in front of the kids.

I could give loads of other examples... but this isn't normal is it?

I really should do this...

Parental alienation and controlling behaviour. Is there an implicit threat there? What would happen if you moved the lamp or used the chicken? Why is it “his chicken” when shopping is supposedly joint? No. Not normal, and not ok.

Hi OP you are right that he has all the control and has you over a barrel because of the kids. It’s often the way.

I will never forget reading a post on here where the poster said her sister’s husband had announced he wanted to leave, was following the script etc etc. Planning to sail off into the sunset with his new woman. The sister, with ovaries of absolute steel, packed and left him with the children. Suddenly all the power was hers as he was begging her to come back because he needed her wife work to make his dream a reality.

Most women aren’t steely enough to do this because we worry about the kids but if I recall she got a good outcome from it. Your STBX will not budge and you have no leverage but you could move out alone and refuse to provide childcare until he moves out. Many, many men refuse to provide childcare and it’s a real exercise of power which controls so many of us.

My DD is 16 now and I’ve got my freedom back. I gather my ex is NOT happy about this which tells me that not only did he relish his own freedom but relished my lack of it.

He really does have all the power, I'm concerned if I do this, I'll lose the house and look like a terrible Mum if I don't provide child care, and they end up at their grandparents all the time. I feel like I've got no power at all.

I should just push back, I'm so used to going with what he says, so are the kids. It's sad how scared they are of him, if they knock over a glass for example.

Love the 'ovaries of absolute steel' by the way!

Start the legal process, get the house valued, start the ball rolling on selling, organise a rolling 50:50 split so you each take responsibility for different week days and activities over time and organise your food, his fo ok d and he does half the menu planning for the kids, half the shopping and half the cooking so on his nights he. Wats with them and you sort yourself out and on your nights he makes himself scarce and you cook and eat with the kids. Show him what it is going to be like.

But his power is in part because you let him have it - you still somehow think he can force it all his own way because he has conditioned you to. The controlling behaviour is there you aren’t allowed to - you are an adult not a child.

Have you done the freedom programme

I know 😕 I just don’t know how to push back, I feel like I have to do what he says, I can’t explain it. It’s a very strange dynamic. I’m made out to be this hapless woman who doesn’t know how to run a house. Despite doing most of it as he’s away so much!

You wouldn’t think so if you met me, I’ve got a good job where I have to be assertive, but at home I’m on egg shells. My stomach drops when he comes through the door, I jump out of my skin when he comes in the room.

I have downloaded the freedom programme

It sounds worse the more you say- undoubtedly there is abuse here. Coercive control?

Forgive me not remembering what your legal advice said, but why is it that you can’t move out? I understand about the children. Previously I posted about the idea of ‘nesting’ which I think is what Angela Raynor was doing, the child/ren stay in the house and parents take turns living elsewhere. You could essentially use this idea as a way of showing up his 50:50 idea as unworkable, while also leaning into what he has suggested.

The logic would be that clearly, it is unreasonable of him to expect the two of you to share the marital home on a long term basis going forward, so at some point he must expect that one or other of you will acquire some other place to live. Clearly the marital assets will need to be split, and at least one other property available.
He thinks he should be able to continue living in the family home, even when he isn’t in the country (some ‘wife fairy’ presumably taking over the 50% of the children’s lives that he would usually have them). So logically he expects you to acquire some other place to live where the children will fit. If you can’t do that without selling the marital home, some other arrangement must be found.
Nesting would mean the kids stayed put in their home and you and your STBX would move in and out. By suggesting that you trial this, you’re showing willing to his proposal on paper, while in reality showing up his unrealistic or unreasonable expectations. At the same time you can live away from his domineering shadow and stop walking on eggshellls (the relief is like nothing else, honestly).

Are there others here who have more experience than me who might see why this is a bad idea/wouldn’t work?

When he says you can't do x or y just tell him to fuck off. He's not your controller or master. You live in the house - it's not his house. Tell him your name is on the deeds and you can do whatever the fuck you like in it.

You need to get forceful and angry with him. It will make no odds to the separation. Tell your solicitors he is trying to control you.

I would start buying my own food and tell him not to touch it - that also means you stop sharing some bills.

I just don’t know how to push back

i usually find fuck off sends the right message.

i think coming to even say it on here is the start of the process of recognising what it was

certainly the freedom programme and maybe woman’s aid to access the help you need

The fact that he travels so much, and his job, have combined to make him feel as important in his real life as he is at work. In effect, he believes his own publicity. He is probably used to people jumping when he snaps his fingers and taking his advice without question. The fact you might not will be a big surprise to him. I bet he has not even really considered the mechanics of what he is asking for.

Move the lamp, make toast and if you don’t feel like eating the chicken I’d rather bin it and tell him I’d eaten it than leave it there like I respected his wishes.