In shock, should he leave?

[Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo]

Sorry if this is a bit muddled, I’m honestly in shock. We’d actually been getting on better recently, he was finally making an effort, and then today he suddenly announced he wanted out, and doesn't see a long term future with me.

We’ve been together 12 years, two DC still at home, 7 and 9. The marriage had been hard because he gets incredibly grumpy, makes no effort, but we had been going to therapy and I thought things were getting better. We've just had a wonderful week away together.

So first of all, I'm feeling blind sided, has anyone had this? I feel so torn like I should try and save it. My therapist did say he was emotionally abusive, so I probably need to give my head a wobble. I thought maybe she was over reacting.

Also, he doesn't want to leave. He wants to stay in the house for 6/7 months if needed, whilst we figure things out! I can't do that. I can't pretend we're ok, it will be so much harder to get over! He's the one that wants out and works away all the time, can I ask him to leave? I'm primary carer, pick up all the slack and work from home.

Also be prepared, when HE (and it must be him - he takes the blame, you must be clear on that) tells the kids they are going to have a lot of questions and it’s going to be hard as of yet as you don’t know the answers. They are going to want to know where they are going to live, they are going to want to know who they are going to live with etc.

Ideally if you can, talk to him today about realistically how he’s going to manage childcare with his job, he needs to know you aren’t his nanny to pick up the slack. Unfortunately you are no longer a team and you won’t be putting your life of hold to make his easier. He no longer wants to be a team, therefore he needs to step up to the plate and do his share. I really think if you can, have some idea of how the children’s time is going to look between the two of you before you speak to them tonight. They will have questions, unfortunately they aren’t tiny, having some idea of what custody is going to look like will help and reassure them.

I would also push for the house, it gives stability and realistically will you feel comfortable when he moves his side piece into your home? This is the children’s home, their memories. You can sell in the future but don’t let him have it.

Yes unfortunately if he won't leave the house and you should definitely not leave the house, you are a bit stuck until the divorce progresses and a formal decision is made about that issue.

It sounds like he wants you to fuck off and live in a bedsit alone, "generously" giving you 6 months to sort it, but you can come and mind your own children in your own house whenever he's away for work or whatever, like a member of unpaid staff. Absolutely not! I'm astonished he can think he can just dismiss you like that but he's clearly totally self centred and what he wants/thinks is the only thing that registers for him.

Other posters have given wise advice about aiming for a residency agreement where the children effectively live with you and he gets set days to see them. They need that stability. And for now living as separately in the home as possible. He does his own cooking and chores. Are you able to have a separate bedroom? (Sorry if I missed that. ) Hopefully some of this can be explored in the counselling session.

Do not go to counselling with your abuser, its counter productive and never advised.

Use the counselling session to help you.

I must admit, I wasn't too sure when you said you were going for counselling with your ex, OP. please think about whether it would be a good thing for you to go with him.

He needs you both to stay in the house at the moment so he doesn’t have to rearrange his life to see his dc. With his job and his travel I have no idea how you navigate this - sorry. Clearly EOW and a midweek isn’t going to work but neither can you be expected to be at his beck and call when it suits him. He could be telling you he is working away for a week or so but tack on a couple of days at the start/end to get his ‘free’ time knowing that you will bend over backwards to facilitate him seeing the dc when he isn’t working.

There must be precedents with this for people who don’t work your regular and consistent hours. Or he will have to change his job but how realistic is that?

I am so sorry op for what you are going through. You will get through it. But do not parent for him.

I echo pp who say be careful what you say in counselling incase he uses anything against you or has even inkling of anything you are planning.

It sounds like you've taken it as far as you can with the marriage counsellor @Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo and what you need now is a divorce mediator. It really does sound like he's checked out and there's no point raking over the whys of you breaking up. He just wants out. Instead, you need to focus on the practical steps of what happens next. A divorce mediator can matter-of-factly explain to you both how child custody can work in your circumstances – i.e. with his unpredictable overseas trips – and what's best for the children in terms of the house. He won't be able to get into the blame game or be emotional abusive, as these sessions are just about the nuts and bolts of divorcing.

Your solicitor should be able to recommend a good divorce mediator locally.

Stop having these conversations with him! He doesn’t get to decide he wants the house and the kids in his terms.

Smile neutrally and say “what you want and expect versus what you will get are two entirely different things. You are no longer in charge. I cannot make you leave but my only interest now is myself and my children. I’m putting it in the hands of my divorce lawyer who will be in touch with you in due course.” On repeat!

You must play your game strategically OP you are making this too easy for him.

you absolutely are NOT his free childcare so he can pick up and put down the kids at his convenience. You are no longer his life partner and he needs to wake the fuck up to the consequences of his decisions.

If he won’t offer a fixed custody schedule he must give you 100% custody and pay accordingly. Then he can have the kids on occasions when he has the capacity and only if it suits your calendar and theirs.

He doesn't get to decide he’s keeping the house. Why should you have all the bother of moving out and he gets to lounge around, keep the furniture and fittings and turn you out on the street! OUTRAGEOUS.

Imagine he moves his new woman in after a few months (there is bound to be one). How AWFUL .No. No. No.

Tell him via your solicitor that the house will need to be sold on the open market and you won’t accept being bought out. This is the only way you feel fairness can be achieved.

@Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo you keep telling us what he wants but you are not telling us what you want.

Have you thought about writing a list?

In regards to advice I agree with the PP.

1. You keep the house for the stability of your DC
2. You will be primary parent to your DC
3. He will have organise his time with your DC as you are no longer a team (you will no longer be organising your life round his work schedule)
4. If he is away and misses his contact time then you are not obliged to reorganise it.

As l have said before, you need to find your anger.

Invite your friends around all the time, if he walks into one reception room/kitchen then walk into the other. Hopefully you are not having to share a room, if you are sleep in another.

You are in charge of your life not him. He’s controlling and emotionally abusive.

Why are you going to this counselling session with him? Is it so he can dominate the conversation and get the counsellor to agree with him? In order to ware you down and agree to his terms?

If you think the above is true, I would cancel it. Or see if you can speak to the counsellor before the session.

i would also ring rights of women for advice, as I suspect he will get more difficult and try to bully you into what he wants.

you can’t remove him from the house but you can do things @Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo you have boundaries you have separate rooms of which he is responsible for you don’t cook or wash for him shopping needs to be discussed as does how finances get separated off as well

the process needs to start - and push for selling the house and splitting the equity (get legal advice regarding this)

Stop having these conversations with him! He doesn’t get to decide he wants the house and the kids in his terms.
Smile neutrally and say “what you want and expect versus what you will get are two entirely different things. You are no longer in charge. I cannot make you leave but my only interest now is myself and my children. I’m putting it in the hands of my divorce lawyer who will be in touch with you in due course.” On repeat!
You must play your game strategically OP you are making this too easy for him

I agree with what @Insomniatica says about being strategic but letting your opponent know exactly what you're going to do and that you're going to play hardball (as per the underlined section) is NOT a good strategy!
Don't give anything away, let him assume that you will be easy to defeat and that it's going to be easy for him to get the outcome he wants.

Oh op I'm so sorry he's being such a monster.
In terms of custody discussions the only logical place to start is which days can he commit to on a regular basis? He's going to need to figure that out. That's the only way that's fair to you but more importantly to the kids. Nothing else is a reasonable starting point. If weekends are the only option for him because he refuses to make changes to how he works then it should be every other one as otherwise he gets all the fun bits.
I can't imagine a court expecting you and the kids to be flexible to his employers travel whims.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I'm going to tell him that all discussions about house/kids/finances need to be done with a third party, as I know we won't agree.

The only issue is how we try and manage this shit show until we get to a more formal stage, if he says he's having the kids and wants to take them somewhere, I can't do much about it! I'm so keen to get to the solicitors on Monday!!!

Regarding childcare, his suggestion is not fair. You should push for a consistent pattern so that you can plan activities for your children on days you have them if that’s what they want. You could say you will consider having them on ‘his’ days - but that you will not be giving up any of ‘your’ days for him to have them instead. He will still have to make a plan for ‘his’ days that he can’t do. I’d go for two nights for him - either Thursday and Friday so he gets Saturday day time or Saturday night and Sunday night and gets them to school on Monday. That way you get a weekend day time each.
I hope you are not making him food or doing his laundry. And clarify who is doing the shopping for the children’s Christmas gifts. (And leave his family to him).

Best of luck OP!
I caught the tail-end of an article on BBC's Morning Live programme this morning which you may find reassuring (you'll find it on iPlayer). A solicitor was on there talking about making child custody arrangements for separation/divorce and she said family court judges are very clear that the children's needs and happiness are paramount and they expect parents to put these front and centre too when making an access agreement. So, if your "D"H thinks he can call all the shots around his work commitments he's in for a shock. In fact, he'll have to cater for the demands of his work around your children - you know, just like mothers have to! 😉

Thanks so much guys, all the advice I’m getting right now though is that I can’t really do anything!
Not until the divorce actually starts.

The only issue is how we try and manage this shit show until we get to a more formal stage

See my previous detailed post.
You don't carry on like a couple. You behave like room-mates in house share, because you are both single now.

Sleep in separate rooms (or on the sofa, or mattress on floor in DC room if necessary). Move all your clothes etc. out of the room where he sleeps. This is a very important step, it physically and psychologically say "We are not a couple now, and we have separate personal spaces".

Never share meals with him.
Separate food shopping.
Separate daily household costs now, take your name off joint accounts, take half of joint savings. Pay your half of bills, but don't have a joint account because single people who are room-mates do not have joint accounts.
If necessary you can apply for maintenance, and even Universal Credit, whilst still living in the same house, because you are separated, you are not a couple.

When in doubt, ask yourself "what would room-mates in a house-share do?"

Don't try to be friendly. Your best bet is to just not talk to him at all except for practical arrangements for the children. Just don't engage with him.

Assume he will not be around when you are making plans for your own social life, so act as if you were a 100% parent, not 50/50 or DC have weekends with him or whatever - he won't be able to give you a fixed schedule so don't bother asking for one. Don't engage, don't ask him for anything.

Whilst you wait for your solicitor appointment it might be wise to do the freedom programme online just as something for you - to understand more about the way he has manipulated you over time & to build resilience.

Do not under ANY circumstances go to joint counselling with this man. I can't stress this strongly enough. He's not your friend, ally or partner. He's shafting you and it's only just started.

To answer some questions, he is wanting the kids any time he can have them. Sometimes he’s randomly here for a few weeks at a time, so in that scenario he’d be wanting to make up for the time he’s away. I just don’t see how we’d make it work.

@Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo as the Rolling Stones once sang - you can't always get what you want! So don't feel that what he wants is all that matters. Much more likely that there's a pattern put in place and if he misses his days, so be it. You don't have to make them up...

No one would agree to this childcare arrangement - he is living in fantasy world.

The reason you have worked this way up until now is because you are a team, a married couple.

Divorcing you loses him that benefit. How does he not see that??

I hope the session with a third party goes well. He is about to have a sharp wake up call!

I see a solution. Whilst he’s travelling, from now on, invoice him for your hours acting as his nanny for your children, as you are no longer his partner, he needs to pay for your parenting services.
Heaven help you, because your husband won’t.

I’m listening to every word, I can’t believe how much I’ve been controlled.

I’ve set up my own bank account, ordered our marriage certificate (I couldn’t find it anywhere), have the solicitors on Monday and he’s away working quite a lot over the next few weeks.

I am also trying to invite a different friend/family member over for most of the nights he is here.

@Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo I ordered a copy of my marriage certificate as mine had “disappeared “. It’s very easy to do but you will have to look up where to apply as I cannot remember due to being many years ago.

I know you're going through an absolute shitstorm right now OP,but reading your posts, I suspect there's going to be a moment in the not to distant future that you look back & you are flooded with relief and a feeling of liberation.

He can want what he wants - that's no longer your problem to solve.
What you want & what is best for the children is your only concern.
He can go swivel.

Oh gosh, you didn't have your own bank account? That's terrifying.

Get half the money into your account from the joint on immediately before he drains the whole thing. It may be decided some needs to go back later depending on the divorce split but you need to get yourself financially protected asap.

Do not tell him a thing until you have your share of the money in your own account.

Hi @Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo
Sorry if I’m speaking out of turn but if you haven’t already told the kids, maybe consider if it’s something they need to know for a prolonged amount of time with no plan ahead…

Also, file for divorce as soon as you can. You need to take control of this