In shock, should he leave?

[Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo]

Sorry if this is a bit muddled, I’m honestly in shock. We’d actually been getting on better recently, he was finally making an effort, and then today he suddenly announced he wanted out, and doesn't see a long term future with me.

We’ve been together 12 years, two DC still at home, 7 and 9. The marriage had been hard because he gets incredibly grumpy, makes no effort, but we had been going to therapy and I thought things were getting better. We've just had a wonderful week away together.

So first of all, I'm feeling blind sided, has anyone had this? I feel so torn like I should try and save it. My therapist did say he was emotionally abusive, so I probably need to give my head a wobble. I thought maybe she was over reacting.

Also, he doesn't want to leave. He wants to stay in the house for 6/7 months if needed, whilst we figure things out! I can't do that. I can't pretend we're ok, it will be so much harder to get over! He's the one that wants out and works away all the time, can I ask him to leave? I'm primary carer, pick up all the slack and work from home.

@Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo Is the basis of your relationship him pretty much doing what he wants and you going along with it because you don’t have to

what he is suggesting is entirely inappropriate for your children with no stability and I suspect the buy out would not necessarily be the amount you should get

legal advice work out what you want and what works for the kids and think selling would be best - get your own place with your children and let him figure out the rest about how he thinks it should work

You keep saying what he wants.. what he wants does not trump what you want. So if you want the house (stability for the children) say it out loud. Be very clear. He cannot have his cake and eat it. Sounds like he wants his life to continue as it was but without you in the house. Honestly.. deluded. Explain you want the house, will be entitled to it as you will be the resident parent and he will have to have a formal arrangement to see the children. Why should you forgo (sp!)plans so he can continue his life as was? Get cross, but calmly. Indignant might be a better word.

You don’t have to be available for him. You don’t have to answer his queries about ‘what’s for dinner’ FFS.

inform him of the kids timetables (don’t ask him) and keep your plans to yourself. He asks you for something “no that doesn’t work for me”

Legal advice, structured custody and maintenance. No court going to turf the kids and their primary caregiver out of their home for a man who isn’t there most of the time.

how he then manages visitiation/custody with his work schedule is on him.

The thing is, without official divorce proceedings at the moment I feel so powerless. I’m speaking to a solicitor again today.

I can tell him to leave, but he won’t. And legally he doesn’t have to.

I can tell him what’s happening with the kids but he just won’t listen!

We’ve got a joint counselling session next week and I’m hoping that they help him see sense!

@Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo I don’t really understand what he actually wants, it seems like he’s asked you to split but just wants you to both carry on living together as if nothing has happened, playing happy families.

How soon does he want to start divorce proceedings? How soon does he want to tell the children? Surely if his family knows, the children should know. I’m not saying you should go along with what he wants, I’m just curious as to what the timeline he wants is.

Is the counsellor aware you’ve split and is this session a session to start the split process? Or is it one you already had booked for relationship counselling, in which case is he even planning on attending still?

I think he wanted to break up with me, and to just keep the house and kids!

He is just continuing like nothing has happened.

It’s a session to specifically talk about the split, and he is going along.

No time line either, we’re telling the kids today.

But otherwise he ‘knows loads of people’ who just live together until the divorce is sorted! He said 6 months. Honestly I’m so angry about that, the sadness is one thing but this is making it so much harder.

He is very very cruel, he also has rubbish timing, dropping this just before Christmas. I really hope the children take it as well as possible, obviously you want to be there to support them, however make sure he’s the one who physically has to tell them. He’s doing this, he should be the one to look them in the eye and say you are splitting up. Don’t let him try and push the blame on to you.

@Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo oh he does does he? And do you know ‘loads of people who live together til the divorce comes through’? And even if you do (which I very much doubt) do YOU WANT TO??
Please stop listening to what he wants and decide what YOU want. Please see that solicitor asap and grey rock that stbx, keep reminding yourself that what he wants is secondary to what you want. He is not the boss of you!

Thanks so much guys, all the advice I’m getting right now though is that I can’t really do anything!
Not until the divorce actually starts.

He does have the right to stay in the house. I think it is morally wrong and cruel, but it is his legal right.

What you can do is separate from him as much as possible. So you can tell him you want the living room at certain times and he can have it the rest. You having said whether you are still sharing a bed, but if you are, stop it immediately. And, even though sex will give you a short term boost, you will feel horrid afterwards when he is just as keen to separate.

And don’t talk to him as your friend/husband. Just talk to him as a coparent and ignore him the rest of the time. Discuss taking the children out separately at the weekend; no more ‘family time’.

The start of a divorce is the worst time, but you will get through it and eventually be happy again.

Oh, and divorcing a high net worth individual is highly unlikely to take six months unless you just capitulate to his demands. Once he realises that half of everything is yours (including his pension), he might become quite confrontational.

You are just too nice for your own good, @Ialwaysthoughtitwasadojo. I don’t know how to say this, as lots have people have already made very good points to you. But please, fight for yourself and your children, please don’t carry on accepting what he says as Gospel, and put yourself first. He CANNOT just carry on the way life has always been for him with you being at his beck and call, and him doing exactly as he wants with no regard for you - you need to get that clear both from your solicitor and from the relationship counselling.
Good luck with the solicitor today, don’t forget to put the money you have invested on your own in the house into the spreadsheets for the calculations, I hope your husband will have a nasty surprise as a result. If you do decide to let him buy you out, make sure he does it at today’s market price, not for what sounds to be the quite low value of your remaining mortgage, and with you first of all receiving proportionally the share that you invested yourself - I have a feeling he is trying to cheat you out of money here. (You said in an earlier post: "Our mortgage is tiny now as I paid a huge amount of it off with my investments. Now mostly gone as they are in this house! “ Hopefully this would be reflected in the settlement terms, that’s the first question I would ask your solicitor, I think!)

I know it feels very final, but do you feel strong enough to actually start the divorce process now? If you do, maybe making the application will give you a bit of control. You’ll have slightly more control over timelines as the petitioner, it also shows him that he can’t control everything.

You're absolutely right Op, he thinks it's fine for him to keep the house and your DC, you'll be the mug who fills in for him when he's away. Aren't you angry he's so entitled and thoughtless or is this the man he's always been?

You need to decide what suits you and the children best and start the divorce now, pushing for what you want. Take back control.

He does not get to decide how your life will be to facilitate what he wants, if he wants to see the children regularly then he needs to change his job so he can commit to regular access not just expect you to be at his beck and call and fit in around what he wants. You facilitated this when you were a team, but he has decided to break the team up so he doesn’t get that any longer. I would be keeping life as separate as possible now. If he won’t move out, then fine, but he doesn’t get his laundry done or the cosy family dinners anymore. He doesn’t get to choose anymore.

He wants to keep the house as is easier, if you move out, you will have to organise that, sort furniture, redecorate and the children will take time to adjust. He will be in the same house with nothing to do and everything set up already. He isn’t thinking about the children, he is thinking about himself.

Oh, and when you tell the children don’t let him frame it as “We have decided …” You had no choice in this so don’t let him pretend that you cane to this decision together.

Thanks guys, I’ll be starting the divorce next week, I’ve got the appointment booked.

I am angry, I did argue and argue to try and get him out but he just refuses and then what?

He has always lacked empathy, my therapist (who knows us both), has called him emotionally abusive due to this upbringing. They say he doesn’t know he’s doing it.

He likes to think about himself, he needs control and he just can’t empathise. It’s got worse and worse over the years

what should I say in the counselling then? What sort of childcare/living arrangements should I push for?

What sort of childcare/living arrangements should I push for?

Whatever ones you want and you think are best for you and the kids. Do not consider his job and stuff, that is his problem. If you want full custody and to keep the house, fight for that.

I can't help but wonder if counselling jointly is a good idea? He is gaining information about your state of mind and what you want but he's unable to empathize so he won't use that to cooperate with you for mutual benefit he will (surely) only ever use it to further his interests at your expense.
I have the impression he's trying to gaslight you into thinking that you're still a team, but he's not a team player he's only out for himself. He wants you to consider him but he doesn't consider you.

Please mention to your solicitor the emotional abuse, his controlling nature.

His refusal to engage is more control, more abuse.

He wants you to be at his beck and call, so you can't move forward.

Please try and see it for the Coercive abuse it is.

Have you read about Coercive control?
Its a crime.

Sounds to me that the "boiled frog analogy" could be you.

Google it. His control has increased over the years.

Abuse of you has increased.
You are so boiled by him that you don't know any better.

Read up and educate yourself before you see the solicitor.
Write notes.
Help the solicitor to see the bigger picture.
Spare them nothing.

You need to get every penny you can.
Because if you agree to anything that favours him, expecting him to be decent, you will pay.

His type get a lot worse post divorce.
Always trying to control from afar.

Personally if you can afford it, I’d keep the house at least for now (you can sell it later yourself if you decide that’s what you’d like to do).

Childcare wise, the kids are going to need routine now more than ever. He is going to have sort his work around childcare, not the other way round. If he’s unwilling to agree to a set schedule, then simply he gets every other weekend. The stability for the children is paramount. If he won’t commit to a set weekday schedule, then he doesn’t get them during the week. However he doesn’t get extra weekend time to make up for it. Also school holidays should be split.

Tonight don’t let him try and weasel out of it and make out it’s a joint decision. It’s his decision, he needs to own it. He tells the kids, he tells them that it was his decision, you are there purely to support them emotionally.

Absolutely! He isn't considering anyone else's feelings except his own, not even his children's. He is prioritising himself and his needs above his children and definitely over you. His heart is completely hardened (he is a different person now) so you need to follow his lead and harden yours.

Make sure that you get your fair share financially and the money of your own that you used to pay towards paying off the mortage must be taken into consideration when working out the split of assets.

The days of you bending over backwards to facilitate his career, caring for the childen singled-handedly while he works away, are over. If he can't do 50/50 because of the nature of his job, this must be reflected in your financial share and the amound of maintenance that he needs to pay.

His type get a lot worse post divorce
This from @Sunnydaystoday stands out to me. He must be aware that it's in his interests to stay on the good side of you so as to get the best divorce outcome for himself. It therefore seems reasonable to infer that the version of him you are seeing now is him on his best behavior.

You need to be very careful, because anything you say or do he will use against you. Don’t tell him any of your plans. When he’s not there go through everything with a fine tooth comb. All his accounts, payslips, pension etc. You will need to fight hard because he is a controlling man who won’t give up lightly. Take pictures of documents if you haven’t got a copier. Go through his jacket pockets etc. Start being really suspicious but tell him nothing. You need to tell the solicitor about the extra payment into the mortgage. And that you would prefer to stay there u til after the divorce at least. Then the house can be sold. But you need to get a fair deal. As far as the children are concerned, he needs to sort his work life out so he can see the children. That’s not down to you. When you tell them don’t allow him to put any of this on you. Daddy doesn’t want to be married to mummy anymore. Do not accept any responsibility or blame. This is entirely on him. And tell all of your friends. You are going to need them.

Your DC will find the split hard so you need to keep to regular arrangements, they need stability more than ever. Talk to your therapist, get them to explain DC can't thrive on irregular contact. If you have to shout to be heard then do it, he's a selfish man whose too used to having his own way

Thats it.
I have heard of low maintenance agreed and his claim, just come to me when you need more.

Post divorce totally different story.
A discreet video bell made all the difference to my friends niece.
He admitted to wanting to control her via money and she reported him to the police.
Like a lot of bullys, he folded when they arrived to speak to him at his mother's door where he was temporarily staying awaiting contract exchange on his new house.
His family were absolutely appalled and mortified at the police at their door.
Particularly when it got around as to why.

Make sure you get one.
It can quickly be forgotten about and pick up nasty conversations that are good to have.