I'm not sure that I want to grow old with DH

[onthelandtheseathesky]

I feel so, so bad writing this, but it's nagging away at me and I need advice from anyone who's ever been through the same.

DH is a kind and loving man. We've been together for 15 years. No kids together but he has been a brilliant stepdad to my now-adult ds (from my first marriage). Our relationship is generally pretty good, we have things in common, we can laugh together, etc. It's not 'bad' by any stretch of the imagination. There's absolutely no abuse of any sort. I know he loves me to bits.

But, god, I think about leaving all the time. I just want to be on my own, in my own space, with absolutely no questions or expectations of me. I'm so completely sick and tired of all the tiny daily compromises and adjustments and irritations of married life. Like the dirty cups left by the dishwasher, not put in it, or the clothes dumped on top of the washbasket. The constant questions - what are you reading, what were you doing upstairs, what time will you be back, what shall we have for dinner, which bin is it this week, where are my XYZs? And the bigger things - his endless complaining about his work, his anxiety and hypochondria, his lack of ambition, his anti-socialness (we have no 'joint friends' at all).

I'm early 50s, he's a little bit younger. He wants to retire early and has all these grand plans for us, travel etc. But it has started to feel stifling - like it would be just me and him forever, not even work to distract us, let alone any sort of social life beyond the two of us.

Sometimes I feel like I could walk tomorrow and never look back. Other times we have a laugh and I think, I must be mad to even think about chucking it all away. It would break his heart. He's really done nothing wrong, it"s just who he is and I knew all this before I married him. But I just want to scream sometimes!

I'm not sure what I'm hoping for from this post. Just want to know that I'm not a bad person for feeling this way?

You can have boundaries. DH recently developed this annoying habit of asking " What jacket should I wear" instead of just looking out the window at the weather. I just ignored him or said " no idea".
He got the message and stopped outsourcing!

I’m the same on all counts!

It"s really sad that so many men think their middle aged wives want to have affairs if they go away by themselves, when all they want is peace and quiet!

I’m always on the side of stick with it and make it work for yourself and advocate for yourself within the confines of a marriage in situations like this; but reading this update op it is absolutely NOT normal that you only can “get away” with a weekend away and not a full week!

This is far too controlling on his part!

Why do you need his permission though? Is this a financial issue? I am wondering how specifically he wields control over you? Does he make you feel guilty? If so, can you just ignore that feeling?

I have literally just told my husband that I will be going abroad for a week, maybe more, as I am going to be helping out a family member. I haven’t asked him if it fits in with his schedule as he is a competent man and can adapt and look after himself. I know it some ways it will be inconvenient for him but I am still going to go, I know he will take care of our home, animals, and himself. And after I told him, I took the money straight out of our joint bank account and bought my flight. It was expensive too.

Which part of the above specifically is difficult for you op? Is he really stopping you or is this a mental barrier of your own? Can you repeat to yourself “I don’t need permission”?
How does he stop you when you say he is always kind and loving?

Him exercising control over you like this is neither of those things! If you love someone, you give them space to grow and breathe and be themselves!

On the other hand, if he is making your life so miserable when you plan to go away, and he is that incompetent and insecure that he can’t survive without you happily for a week, then no wonder you are feeling suffocated! And if he refuses to address his insecurity and there is no prospect of anything improving then you would be very justified in splitting.

I am posting the UK Crown Prosecution Servive definition of coercive control below to see if anything strikes a chord with you:

Building on examples within the Statutory Guidance Framework, relevant behaviour of the suspect can include:

• isolating a person from their friends and family
• depriving them of their basic needs
• monitoring their time
• monitoring a person via online communication tools or using spyware
• using digital systems such as smart devices or social media to coerce, control, or upset the victim including posting triggering material
• taking control over aspects of their everyday life, such as where they can go, who they can see, what to wear and when they can sleep – this can be intertwined with the suspect saying it is in their best interests, and ‘rewarding’ ‘good behaviour’ e.g. with gifts
• depriving them of access to support services, such as specialist support or medical services
• repeatedly putting them down such as telling them they are worthless
• enforcing rules and activity which humiliate, degrade or dehumanise the victim
• forcing the victim to take part in criminal activity such as shoplifting, neglect or abuse of children to encourage self-blame and prevent disclosure to authorities
• economic abuse including coerced debt, controlling spending/bank accounts/investments/mortgages/benefit payments
• controlling the ability to go to school or place of study
• taking wages, benefits or allowances
• threatening to hurt or kill
• threatening to harm a child
• threatening to reveal or publish private information
• threatening to hurt or physically harming a family pet
• assault
• physical intimidation e.g. blocking doors, clenching or shaking fists
• criminal damage (such as destruction of household goods)
• preventing a person from having access to transport or from working
• preventing a person from learning or using a language or making friends outside of their ethnic or cultural background
• family ‘dishonour’
• reputational damage
• sexual assault or threats of sexual assault
• reproductive coercion, including restricting a victim’s access to birth control, refusing to use a birth control method, forced pregnancy, forcing a victim to get an abortion, to undergo in vitro fertilisation (IVF) or other procedure, or denying access to such a procedure
• using substances such as alcohol or drugs to control a victim through dependency, or controlling their access to substances
• disclosure of sexual orientation
• disclosure of HIV status or other medical condition without consent
• limiting access to family, friends and finances
• withholding and/or destruction of the victim’s immigration documents, e.g. passports and visas
• threatening to place the victim in an institution against the victim’s will, e.g. care home, supported living facility, mental health facility, etc (particularly for disabled or elderly victims

Good luck op! It might be good to get away for a few days I think and get very clear in your own mind as to how you are being controlled and why. And what you are going to do about it.

Tbh I think we get like this in relationships before you split up go and spend a week time away from each other my dp drives me insane sometimes but you know what he's kind caring and no matter what I wouldn't leave him

Oh wow! Where was that taken from? Lot's of it totally irrelevant!

I feel you @onthelandtheseathesky and I hear you too. Married 35 years here, both 'around 60,' kids left home a decade ago, and it's only me and DH now. Parents died some years ago, one sibling each who live abroad, and their children do too, (not seen any of them for nearly 6 years...) So no family except 3-4 cousins who we see maybe 3 times a year, and a couple of elderly aunts who we see every other month. All live several hours drive away. We see the DC once every 3-4 weeks. (They live 20-ish miles away.) We have a good relationship with them, and speak most days on whatsapp or facebook or the phone. Well, I speak to them more.

Most of the time it's just me and DH, and whilst some days it's OK, and we have a laugh and do stuff together (lunches out, trips to the beach, cinema, theatre, general days out to shopping centres, market towns etc,) DH has no get-up-and-go, and he just moans and whinges about everything some days, and CBA to do anything. (Although when pushed, and doing something begrudgingly, he always enjoys it...) He moans a lot some days too.... About neighbours, work colleagues, drivers, people in the shopping centres 'getting in his way,' the weather, and his favourite subject to moan about - his health. He has health anxiety, and is a proper hypochondriac.

He has had about 15 different 'ailments' in the past 8-9 years, and is on the highest and strongest meds for his heart, his nerves, his anxiety and depression, his bad back, his headaches, his swollen joints/arthritis, and several other ailments. He has had test after test, x-rays, MRIs, scans, blood tests, consultations at specialists hospitals and clinics, and multiple GP appointments, and they have found precisely NOTHING actually wrong with him.

The medical professionals have got exasperated with him several times, and said 'Mr Zov, we're sorry but there is nothing else we can do for you!' As I said, there is nothing wrong. I believe on some level, he has been trying to find a way to go on long term sick, (since he was about 51-52, so like 8 years or so,) as he HATES his job. (Never made any attempt to get a different one though. Been there 16 years now.)

Like your DH (and many others if many MN threads are anything to go by) my DH has no friends (just 2 colleagues he gets on with OK, but rarely socialises with,) he has no hobbies, and most days he does nothing but sit in his armchair watching TV for most of his waking hours. I do quite a lot on my own, or with the DC, or one of my 2 best friends, or friends I have in the village.

I go to a couple of hobby groups, and go for lots of long walks. I also spend a lot of time in the garden. I see my DC for coffee and lunch some weeks (without DH,) although he does come along sometimes...

I prefer to do stuff on my own sometimes, as DH just moans and whinges that he's bored or 'tired' and we end up wrapping things up earlier than I would have liked to, Even of an evening, if we go out, he wants to leave the pub after about an hour and a half/by 8.30-9pm as he is 'tired.' That's on the rare occasion he comes to the pub!

I do love him and care about him, but fucking hell he can be hard work some days! I'm never going to leave. Where would I go? And why should I leave my lovely cosy country cottage in my gorgeous little rural village, and my lovely, solvent lifestyle, where I have a decent amount saved, no mortgage, and a nice comfortable life?! Even though he annoys me some days, we have good days too. And I am not prepared to go for a single life, alone.... Not at my age. Like many marriages of many years, it's comfortable and easy. It has its problems and 'off' days, and DH is a whingey bastard some days, but I'm staying put.

Not looking forward to him retiring though! 😬

But I think what the op is saying is she's just fed up with all the clingy behaviour. And perhaps more than clingy but down right needy.

I really wouldn't expect her to go on with this without some introspection from the Dh which he has refused

She is able now to chose the life she wants.

Women do not need a man to get through perimenopause, menopause or anything really.

Agreed 👍

No it isn’t. It’s great 👍

I note from further updates, she's also said that she has been quite passive so I wonder if she's not really pushed back on the husband cos she doesn't want to cause conflict?

I agree. I genuinely think there are areas here you could work on...?

No. The very clingy behaviour is not something that can be worked on by the OP. This is something that should be worked on by the DH but he is reluctant.

I’m going to be honest OP your relationship sounds absolutely suffocating. So many I can’t and he won’t let…… you have autonomy over your own life. Why does he get to make all the decisions? If you want a few days away with friends tell him you’re going. If he sulks, let him. He’s a partner not a jailer

"I've been afraid to because I don't want to trigger him. I want to keep everything sweet and cosy and safe for him, but that's not really right if it's at my expense, is it?"

No, it's not right. You're not supposed to be an "emotional support human" for anyone other than your children, and even that role should wane as they enter adulthood and mature.

"I want to keep everything sweet and cosy and safe for him" indicates some codependency. If you don't know what that is, it's where one party in a relationship is “the Giver” and the other is "the Taker". The Giver, who is usually highly functional, reliable, and helpful, is the constant carer of the Taker, to the point that they sacrifice their own needs and well-being. It's a lopsided dysfunctional relationship that is harmful, not only to the Giver but also to the Taker, because the Giver is enabling the Taker's (self)destructive behavior.

Some codependents are themselves dysfunctional - they need to be needed, or they get emotional pleasure from being the saviour White Knight. They themselves can be controlling, like for example a parent who constantly imposes his/her help on his/her children. Often these codependents come from dysfunctional households, where there is an addict or a labile, demanding parent who is the toxic center of familial attention. But others accidentally find themselves in a codependent relationship. This is particularly common with women, because we have been raised to be nurturing, kind, respectful people who want to help alleviate the distress of others if they can. As a result, women often find themselves in a cage with invisible and ever tightening bars, where their focus is on feeding the rapacious and unending needs of the controlling Taker, and they've shrunk down into themselves to fit the cage.

One way to get out of codependency, and the cage, is to realise that that it is not even helpful to the Taker to be pandering to their dysfunction. All it's doing is help them postpone the healing work they should do on themself to become internally whole, which is the ONLY thing that will bring them true security, comfort, and happiness.

So yes, keeping "everything sweet and cosy and safe for him" isn't even good for DH, and it's suffocating and stultifying your life.

Time for a change, I think :)

Agree. He sounds like a controlling manipulator and that’s not something that can be worked on, that’s who he is. And even if there’s work to be done, it’s not on her to train a grown adult man on how to behave.

The fact she’s scared to stand up for herself in case it triggers him speaks volumes about his controlling behaviour. She’s setting fire to herself to keep him warm

When I said you I mean as a couple. Not the OP by herself.

Yes they do, so think carefully before you decide to go. 😉

No, treading on eggshells because you’re scared to trigger him isn’t normal in a healthy relationship.

He’s definitely doing things wrong, you’re just ignoring them to keep the peace. You’re being a passenger in your own life.

Sadly like many women who have been in an abusive relationship, your view of what’s normal boundaries is blurred and you’re accepting behaviours that someone who has more self esteem would see as huge red flags

Good point. It’s easy to romanticise living alone and being single but it can also be tough. OP - Can you have a holiday alone just to have some breathing space that may help make a decision?

Absolutely!

That's what stood out to me!
The fact you don't feel able to stand up to this man.

Exactly. I know far more women who are single (after relationship breakdowns/divorce) who are struggling finanically, have zero social life, very few friends, (and are on the bones of their arse,) than those who are divorced/separated and living their best life, solvent, having a great social life, loads of holidays, and have loads of friends.

Leaving a long term relationship or marriage is hugely romantisized on here ... The reality of it is often very different to how some Mumsnetters portray it.

We're not living in a RomCom!

I get that but these people are happy living like that and there are ways around it if you're not. Everyone will have their personal degrees of tolerance to another human sharing their space and that just has to be communicated and agreed.

I get the impression OP is inwardly seething and her DH is totally unaware.

Yes lots of it might be totally irrelevant. I sincerely hope so, but I posted it anyway bc many people in controlling relationships don’t really understand the extent to which they are being controlled.

Being able to go away for no longer than a weekend is quite extreme you must admit

“Separate holidays - well, I might get away with a weekend away but anything more than that would require hours of negotiation and reassurance that i wasn't secretly leaving him.”

Does that sound normal to you?

Op is at the same time saying he is a good guy! And I am sure he is in other ways. But deeply insecure guys can be very controlling. And imho, this sort of dynamic rarely improves or even stays the same; it usually gets worse over time. And op could then find herself in a position, where little by little, all independence has been eroded away. I really hope this isn’t the case but these partnerships often start fracturing when the party who is controlled starts feeling confused and starts questioning the status quo.

Very happy to be wrong though!