Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 17

[SpecialMangeTout3]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5355546-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-16?page=10&reply=148665446

She is only 9, but to be fair she isn’t behaving much differently socially to my 3 year old (3 year old is advanced for her age). They snatch and scream and cry etc. I know she is years behind most of the girls in her class and they don’t want to play with someone who doesn’t follow the social rules. I also know she will catch up more or less eventually. To be fair she has a lot more empathy than some of her NT class mates and she will give anything to anyone if they are feeling sad. She is very good with the young kids. Many ND children have a heart of gold but the world just isn’t kind to them and I can quite understand why some adults turn out to be so desperately self centred when they treated like such outcasts.

It’s amazing how different me and my daughter are at the same age with that same condition. I was a people reader, I read moods and I still do. I squashed all these issues so far down I had no idea that this wasn’t just what all people were like. I had no idea I was suffering so much. The difference mothering can make is huge.

@Georgeismydog are you doing ok?

I can’t stand the bald and upsetting statements that if you object to them, they say ‘oh I didn’t mean that, I meant this’.
You say ‘but why didn’t you say what you meant, then?’
They say ‘I couldn’t because you interrupted me.’ (Objectively not true)
There’s seemingly no ability to change this way of half-communications and I find it very very hard to just not react badly to it. Because yes I do take people at their word. That’s all there is, what comes out of your mouth and into my ears. I’m not a mind reader.

Also that if you say something they don’t want to hear, in a calm and respectful way including evidence if needed, then you are always accused of ‘shouting’. Like that’s a terrible thing and that far eclipses anything urgent or important that you might be saying.

I’m sick of saying, ‘No, I wasn’t shouting. You just don’t like what I am saying’. Also, shouting if you feel hurt can be a normal
human reaction.

I don’t have the patience for this pressure for me to have endless calm and patience and to assume the best despite the opposite evidence. It is hard to live with someone who has a seemingly unchanging inability to actually stop being (I guess unintentionally?) hurtful.

To be clear ‘they’ is my closest relationship person, I am not generalising any further than that.

I have the don’t shout situation with my daughter, whatever I say in relation to whatever they have done will always be turned onto me. I’m not sure what this is. It stops my daughter from recognising anything that she has done that someone has found hurtful. Telling her she has hurt your feelings always ends up with her feelings being hurt because now you making her feel bad. I also explained that feeling bad and being guilty are normal human emotions. They are there to teach us when to apologise. I understand that these feel bloody awful, especially when you have a neurological that amplifies them.

Nobody likes getting told about themselves it’s just so much worse for ND people. But then the other persons feelings matter. I don’t know I’m trying to say only that it’s so hard. Love and relationships come from saying sorry and accepting and changing and this isn’t something “they” are too good at.

I get shut down by all members of my family and “persuaded” out of whatever feeling I had.

SpecialMangeTout3

No my mum passed away

Im so sorry for your loss @Georgeismydog 💐

Love and relationships come from saying sorry and accepting and changing and this isn’t something “they” are too good at

Totally agree. I think in years gone by there would have been more energy, money, time and the wish in me to please the other person and vice versa.

but these days especially with meeting the needs of ND kids in the mix it feels quite claustrophobic to be approaching close adult discussions knowing in advance that I will 9 out if 10 times just have to concede and agree to whatever it is, or the day will be spoilt.

So sorry to hear that @Georgeismydog hope there is some support available for you 💐🫂

Hi, I'm new here and wondering if anyone can clarify if this is down to Autism or other ND or just being an ass... Partner was 'too sick' to see me but went out with a friend and was drinking and smoking during the day, then retreated to bed 'too sick' to see me again. Is this just thoughtless about how that is going to feel for me, or am I expecting a level of understanding that is not likely and I should explain how it landed?
Thanks for any insights

That does sound very inconsiderate, ND or no @MaybeAtMyWitsEnd - to clarify, are you living together?

Had some interesting discussions with DH about his behaviour when he's angry and I do need to have a word with him about one thing. Since the ADHD meds he has been somewhat better and had some more insight, but he is still not taking full responsibility, as in DS will be reactive to DH when he's being a bit 'raised voice' but not yet angry, and DH responds by being all 'But I'm so much better lately - I wasn't angry that time or the other time, was I?' and... that's not what's needed. I think this is the possibly autistic side coming out, also the 'having grown up with an explosive mother who couldn't control her anger' side as well.

@Echobelly we have started the process of moving in together but things like this are giving me cold feet.
Hm, that sounds frustrating. Progress is good but I guess sometimes it isn't enough

@Georgeismydog im so sorry 😢😢

I hope you have been able to go and see her.
And that you have some friends/family (not dh….)/ people in RL around you to support you.

If you want to talk to us about your mum, rant and vent, we’re still here. And ready to listen.

💐💐💐

@MaybeAtMyWitsEnd so that type of behaviour is for me just not acceptable, ND or NT.

Youre not even living together yet. And he is showing you how he is going to be around you.
Whether it’s autism or not doesn’t matter. What matters is: can you live with that? With someone who, on a day to day basis, will put himself first or will put yourself last? Who doesn’t feel his relationship to you is important enough to make an effort (but seeing his friends is)? That’s assuming his actually is ill and hasn’t given you excuses…..

Beimg ND is a reason, not an excuse. If his ND means he isn’t treating you well enough (for you), then it should be a no go. And the fact you’re posting makes me think it isn’t. It was hurtful to you. And you exiect more from a relationship. Don’t loose sight of that.

DH has used ChatGPT to explore some insights about his ADHD (while being careful to phrase it to get a reasonable, not too sycophantic response) and shown it to me and he wanted to show it to oldest, and I was like 'Hmmm, maybe not when we're about to go out' but he did anyway, and they were kind of dismissive and snotty about it, as 17yo might be. I wasn't surprised they didn't react well and I said I'd tell DH why in the car.

I told him a bit about what I mentioned in my last post that I thought it wasn't the right way to go about it by seeming to go 'look how much I've improved' to the people at the sharp end of his behaviour as that might feel like the wrong emphasis.

Well, he totally went off on one. I'd been as kind and neutral as I could be, I thought, be he felt laid into and that he might as well not bother changing if he couldn't talk to anyone about it.

Now, I'm not devoid of blame for handling the best way - I should have recognised how much he is trying and started off by recognising that so he wouldn't feel attacked, that's just common sense about telling someone something hard. And we were slightly at cross purposes because I was talking a bit about something else that I'd been thinking about, so he read it as me saying the chat GPT was stupid and he shouldn't have bothered.

Doesn't make his response acceptable.... but we did calm things down a bit and have a more sensible discussion. I'm not saying that he shouldn't talk about how he's trying to change, of course, but I still think he's not seeing that other people, who have been hurt by his behaviour, may feel a bit jaded by his approach.

I don’t think he should be telling his children in this manner really. They shouldn’t be used in any way as part of his therapy. The only sorry really is changed behaviour over a long period of time. It takes a long time for someone to feel safe in a relationship after feeling unsafe for a long time, if ever. He is trying to make himself feel better with their words but they aren’t ever going to be nice words in such short time. It’s not on really. Your son has had by the sounds of it a long time of eggshells with his dad, that stuff really sticks. He should be aware he is setting himself up to fail asking for his sons approval of his work.

@Echobelly i feel using ChatGPT to get some insights is not such a bad idea.
I get that he wants to see his improvements being noticed - everyone wants to be seen and their efforts validated.
But that’s the role for a therapist, a parent. Maybe a partner (up to a point). Not a child, even your oldest at 17yo.

They will see his efforts. They’ll notice his reactions are different. But theyre not there to validate his efforts. That's parentification.

I would gently push him to see a counsellor on his own to work on getting insights in his behaviours, wo AI.
But also there seems to be some hope from your dh that the changes he has just done are enough. Enough to make him a great dad. Enough to erase any past ‘mistakes’. Enough that he should be praised by everyone, his dcs included, for all his efforts. Emotionally that’s a hell if a lot for him to process I suspect. And he usnt seeing that people around him also have a lot to process and to get used to the ‘new him’ (for want of a better word). That’s the sort of stuff better done in counselling.

He does realise there is a way to go and that everything that's happened cannot be undone.

Part of me thinks he would get more peace if he accepted the damage can never be fully undone. He gets upset at the thought that me and the kids might be treading gingerly around him maybe for years, but at the end of the day, we are the wounded parties here.

I'm also feeling kind of shitty, I happen to have read lately about a few people whose kids have gone no contact and the parents don't think they've done anything wrong and it makes me worry - will my kids be angry I didn't leave DH to protect them, and decide not to talk to me when they're older? Not a likely risk with DS I think, although he's the worst hit. But a possibility with oldest. And I'm not convinced I don't deserve it.

@SpecialMangeTout3 - to add, I think that may be a very good point about to use me as a sounding board to his improvement. I suppose his thinking is that because the kids are older it is right and respectful to them to discuss his progress and thinking with them, but as you say, they are not their to validate his efforts. Also sometimes, as teenagers, as my oldest did today, sometimes they might lash out and be inclined to swing towards 'so what?', which will make him feel worse. While I am able to look at it a bit more disapassionately.

@MaybeAtMyWitsEnd I would be thinking long and hard about moving in together. He’s being a tosspot, ND or not claiming you’re ill and then going out for the day and then being ill again. Nope if he's claiming his ND is the cause he’s trying to pull a fast one. Decent behaviour is to be expected regardless of your neuro type. If you don’t set hard boundaries now he will continue to treat you with contempt. If you ignore his diagnosis would you say his behaviour is normally dismissive or disrespectful?

Struggling today living with DH. Empathy of a stone

@Georgeismydog im sorry. You deserve more than that.
Are you and your dcs coping ish? I’m hoping you have some friends/family around to support you.

Just right now is a real deep hole between loosing your mum and the very stark realisation your dh just cannot step up, even stakes are high.

Just one thing is a LOT to deal with. I’m going to say trying to deal with both at the same time might be too much.
In a situation where dh let me down very badly, I found the best for me has been to concentrate on myself and act as if he wasn’t there. So for you, looking at what kind of support you can bring to you and your dcs. Doing whatever you feel is needed - talking about your mum with the dcs if that’s appropriate, crying, putting music on, whatever. Just you can get a little of footing again.

Then, when things have been settled enough for me, I dealt with dh.

Do you think that would for you?

@Echobelly these are not easy situations. For any of you.

im noticing though that you’re still expected to be the one scaffolding. The one who is his sounding board, who reassures him his efforts show, that things are improving, that it won’t have lasting effect etc…
Now my question to you is: who is supporting you there? And if you’re his cheerleader, do you have the space to highlight how you or the dcs are still negatively impacted?
My worry is that, if you’re being pigeonholed into being his support and only his support, your voice will be lost. And you’ll disappear again iyswim.