Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 17

[SpecialMangeTout3]

New thread.
__
This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
__
It's complicated and it's emotional.
__
The old thread is here.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5355546-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-16?page=10&reply=148665446

Someone has just signposted me to this thread. I’m placemarking to read back through the whole thread as so much on here resonates.

I’m considering separating from my autistic DH as I’m so exhausted from meeting everyone’s needs except my own. What the recent poster said about “when is it my turn?” really struck a chord. When I was very unwell postnatally (almost a decade ago) DH couldn’t cope at all and treated me terribly. I know that if I was to face cancer or something he would just ignore my needs entirely.

I feel so unsupported and I’m starting to think that being a single mum would actually be easier. But financially I don’t see how I could make it work, and I hate the idea of leaving my (still quite young) DC with him for a whole weekend every other week because as he just wouldn’t cope.

Thank you all for your replies.
The fact that im questioning if my basic needs of emotional support during this time are too much speaks volumes.
I brought up the issue of him not enquiring about how im doing this morning. "Of course I care, of course im interested " was his response.
I asked how im supposed to know that when he doesn't verbalise or communicate. He said he assumed i didn't want to talk by my body language. He didn't understand when I said it is taking all I have to hold it together at the moment and waiting for him to show he cares hurts.
Im so tired of squashing my needs and feelings down so as not to make dh feel any pressure.
I don't have anyone i can confide in, but i journal and that helps.
Im just so tired of the repetitive conversations.
He wants to be more connected and he'll work on getting some help. He doesn't.
He wants to be part of our family and will try and be more interested. He doesn't.
If I could just back off and he'll come to me when he feels able to talk. He doesn't.
He keeps telling me what I want to hear I suppose and I keep hearing what I want him to tell me.
I read something somewhere that resonates:
He wants the wife & kids but doesn't know how to be a husband or father.

I saw this today and it sounded like great advice. A friend of mine sent me a link to some interesting reading about theory of mind and the ability to attribute mental states
to behaviour and it really feels like it’s hit the nail on the head with my asd person. She hasn’t a clue. I’ve realised that I have acted distressed physically many times and have been completely ignore so I’ve ignored myself. My mum thinks my brothers excessive working is normal positive behaviour. When we cried when we were small she ignored it because she believed we were just being bad or trying to annoy her. I think this happens an awful lot. Asd person thinking someone’s behaviour is done to hurt them and gets angry or dismissive, can’t see that it’s a response from the other persons mental state that they need to act upon. Most of us know that people’s behaviour has little to do with us and is a reflection on how they feel and we need to offer comfort, my asd person doesn’t see it like this.

I can see my brother needs comfort and to know he can slow down and it’s ok. But my mum can’t see where his behaviour is coming from, great anxiety. I also need comfort for my feelings but we won’t ever receive it.

Most of us know that people’s behaviour has little to do with us and is a reflection on how they feel and we need to offer comfort,

Im going to disagree there.
I think most people, NT, ND or whatever else, do not automatically ‘know’ that people’s behaviour has little to do with us. I think it’s actually the opposite. Yu just have to read threads on here.
I also feel that often the way people behave IS a reflection on how we’ve acted/our behaviour. That’s what allows us to modify our behaviour to stop hurting people for example.

With dh, he doesn’t organise stuff either. It’s not that he can’t be bothered. It’s that he can’t.
He has never organised any holidays for us as a family.
Actually I don’t think he ever has organised any holiday at all, unless around his special interests (and it’s all organised. Usually a long weekend or a week of activities that you pay for iyswim)
And he has tired. And it’s very hard it hits the spot. He genuinely can not imagine what my needs are, how to meet them so whatever he is proposing works for both of us.

It’s actually quite sad because I can see him trying. And I also think fgs, why did you think it’s a good idea…..

That’s interesting that you say he can’t. I wondered this about my DH, but he organises quite complex things at work, so I feel sure he can buy tickets to something or choose and book a restaurant or day trip destination. He chooses not to. I would never expect him to book a holiday (I don’t think he could handle that kind of pressure).

I do think overall it’s helpful to recognise when they’re not doing something because they just can’t because they’re essentially disabled. That has definitely helped me reach a level of acceptance in some areas.

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy I’m sorry 🫂🫂🫂 That’s really tough.

First if all, I want to say that your needs are important too. And you’re not asking too much. Having some sort of support from your partner in these circumstances is kind of expected isn’t it?

Also 🤞🤞 that’s your biopsy results are as good as they can be. This must be a really scary time for you. Are you doing ok on that front? Do you have any support at all (friends or family)?

And YY about having the talk and nothing happening.
dh is the same. Not as much RSD but fear of being wrong I think. Fear of trying to xyz and for that to be the wrong thing. Fear of what the answer will be (is that serious and scary?). And fear of being asked to do something (that’s where PDA plays a part too)
i had a big ME relapse 4 years ago. Bedbound type of things. Dh didn’t ask how I was, let alone how I felt. He actively ignored the fact I was seriously ill and just carried on.

My take now is that one. My needs come first and foremost. I am chosing what works for me WITHOUT involving dh. That is I’m not expecting him to do anything, to be there to support. Anything at all bar the one thing I know he can handle - cooking and HW here.
Ive organised the rest of my life to meet those other needs in other ways. Like counselling. If I could go out, I’d put extra effort into building a network of friends and support around me. I’ve built a network online instead. Not as good but it helps.
The house is organised for me etc….
And I’ve made a very pragmatic evaluation of costs - how much does it cost me to stay vs how much will it cost me to leave. Atm, it costs me less to stay (because living on your own, with little money to pay for help is very high cost for me). This will look like something very different for you (And I certainly don’t mean you should consider separation at this moment in time. Quite the opposite!)

But more importantly, it’s all about me. Feelings, love, blame, guilt. I’m purposefully ignoring all of that.
one reason is that the whole family life is organised around dh by default. As you said, his needs and feelings are somehow always taking precedence. And the only way I found to not do that is by becoming ‘selfish’, ignoring the guilt/shame and doing it anyway.

@EmotionalSupportHuman i think it’s complexity is open ended that’s an issue.

When booking a holiday, chosing the destination, the hotels etc… it’s totally open ended. You need to take into account other people’s needs, likes and dislikes, abilities (like when the dcs were children) etc…
With work, dh knows he is going to x place between 2 dates. It’s contained. Choice is restricted.
When it’s complex decisions at work, again there is a context, a certain way of doing things, procedures etc… you dint need theory of mind. Just a good understanding of facts/mechanics/theory.

DH either doesn't organise things (most of the time) or is suddenly taken by the mood to organise things. I sort 80% of our holidays, but now and then he gets taken with an idea and does all the sorting. It's a bit annoying when I've done some research and he just ignores all my ideas, but as long as his idea is good - and it usually is (aside from suggesting Morocco in midsummer, and he got quite angry at me for immediately being 'Absolutely not in July or August').

I have been quite grateful that he's stood back and let me and DS sort redecorating his room last week - as DH said, it's not his room so it's not his choice. It is like dragging a ball and chain getting him involved with decor decisions otherwise and sometimes I have to have the same conversation half a dozen times because he forgets, or he finally agrees to something, then changes his mind. 😬

DS's room was the last 'unmodernised' one in the house, so we shouldn't have that issue for a while. I am desperate for a new kitchen but I want to wait until we can save up some more money or something to get a really good one that will last out the rest of our tenure.

I just don’t think some of these autistic partners have an emotional language. It’s exactly as you say, they want the wife and family but don’t know how you connect with them. I don’t know if there is an answer. He cannot be what you need. He can only tell you what you want to hear and revert to the same behaviour. At best he might be able to learn a rule, but the feeling and empathy behind the enquiry will of course be absent.

You can accept it and make peace with it as best you can, or you can leave. If you cannot leave / have reasons for not doing so, then acceptance is the next best thing to avoid being continually hurt and disappointed.

When will you get your results? Can we at least enquire after you? I know I am just an internet stranger (even after all this time!) but I care. We care. Please do share how you’re feeling if it would be helpful to you. I promise not to try and solutionise or minimise your worries (as that can be super annoying when you don’t want someone to fix things. You just want to say how you’re feeling).

If not helpful then no worries. I know it’s not the same as having an engaged and emotionally literate partner 😞

Just need to have a bit of a rant, feeling sad :(

Today I finished the first module of my part-time online Masters, which I've been working so hard on while full-time raising our 7 month old baby - during her naps, after she's gone to bed, etc. Was feeling so proud of myself. But apparently it's too much to ask that DH might acknowledge the success. I told him, and no reaction - later I asked him to tell me he's proud of me - he just responded in an intentionally 100% flat sarcastic tone "I'm proud of you".

Also his parents are visiting this week, and on Monday I'll start my new job and our baby will be in full-time childcare, ofc I'm feeling nervous.

DH announces he's thinking of doing a 24 hour road trip with his dad for the weekend- I ask what his mum will do, he said she can hang out with me and DC.

I point out that I would also like to do something nice this weekend, since it's my last weekend before starting the job. He doesn't acknowledge, and drops that "oh by the way I'm also thinking of doing a guys trip in the next couple of weeks".

As discussed previously in the thread, it's so infuriatingly unfair - as the mother, there's no way I'd even have the option to consider a trip without our baby (not that I'd want to, but he won't even watch her for more than an hour). I pointed this out to him, and he said "but I barely know DC" - seriously?!!! As if that's a valid excuse - can't he see it's actually a problem that he still hasn't tried to learn how to look after her?! Arghhhhh. Rings so true with what you guys are saying about wanting to have a wife and kids without actually wanting to be a partner and father. Incomprehensible

Sorry for the rant, thanks for reading this far. I know it's objectively not "that bad", but for some reason am finding it really hard to just brush it off again this eve. Feel so sad and disappointed. Maybe the full moon isn't helping 🫠

@mcrlover well done!!! It’s no mean feat doing that with a baby. I did the same (online MSc when I had a toddler and a new baby) and it’s incredibly hard work!!! I know how hard you must have worked. It’s awful that your DH couldn’t bring himself to acknowledge that and gave you a shitty sarcastic response when you pointed out he’d been lacking. I know these autistic men don’t like to feel told what to do, so he wanted to show he was being true to himself by doing what you wanted (giving the praise you deserved), but ensuring you knew it wasn’t heartfelt. So he could feel it was still on his terms. Pathetic, if you don’t mind me saying so!

You have every right to want to do something as a family on your last weekend before work and it’s unfair that the husbands and male partners (mine was the same and he wasn’t autistic) can just assume their weekends are to do with as they please, while the little woman is left holding the baby (literally of course!). When would a mother just be able to announce she’s off for the weekend?!! Never.

I think it would be wise to set expectations early on. I allowed my exDH to treat me like a cleaner and skivvy and the default childcare. I tried (and failed) to challenge individual incidents of him being lazy and doing what he wanted, but with hindsight a better way would have been to have sat him down and made expectations clear. Once these patterns of behaviour were entrenched, he was never going to change and did everything he could to sidestep a conversation about him doing more.

Challenge him on not knowing his DC. Ask him if that’s what he wants as a father. Ask him what he intends to do to rectify this. Be clear: that is not an acceptable default excuse to just piss off for the weekend. Now he has a DC his time is not his own to do with as he pleases. Leisure time needs to be agreed in advance and equal. This is called being a dad and yes, it is hard work, and yes, you will wish you had your old life back some of the time! Unfortunately it comes with the territory. Doesn’t mean having a baby isn’t enjoyable. It’s wonderful (and can only be made better by getting to know his beautiful daughter), but it is hard work. Leaving it all to mum isn’t the default option. Weekends away are not a unilaterally decided on by one parent. It’s not like you could just decide to do that.

Don’t let this become the norm. I wish I hadn’t. It made for many years of being angry and frustrated at him dipping in and out of being a dad as and when it suited. I eventually divorced him. I should have set expectations from the start. (Well, I shouldn’t have married him or had DC with him really, but that’s another story!)

And again, a HUGE well done on your course. To do that with a new baby is amazing. 🏆

@mcrlover well done, that sounds like really hard work, so I’m proud of you for achieving that! I agree with everything that Busty said, he doesn’t get to slack, pull him up hard and do it now. He doesn’t get to pick and choose. Good luck with the job and little one will be fine in childcare. On the plus side if she’s used to full time childcare, if you decide your DH is dead weight (which I’d be giving some serious thought to if he can’t be arsed to parent his own child, what does he bring to the relationship?) you’ve at least got that lined up.

This health scare has forced me to look at things differently. I am usually so good at 'not needing anyone' 'coping on my own'' just getting on with things', mainly through having to because dh has never been there emotionally. I've somehow taught myself to not need.
I just feel so alone in this, and I am somehow angry at myself for feeling needy, for wanting comfort, for wanting to just curl up and be taken care of. How warped is that? How the years of conditioning has taught me that I dont deserve to be taken care of.
Dh asks me once in the morning and only then, how im feeling, do I want to talk. Like its a checklist:
get up✅️
make coffee✅️
ask wife how she is✅️
I decided to tell him the truth this morning, that I have no intention of opening up emotionally as I dont trust him. I haven't for years and this is where we are now.
I have spent years protecting myself from the emotional neglect and even though i would love him to be my safe place, he is not.
He replied with "Well I have to respect that is how you feel, so i won't ask anymore if you prefer"
A switch has been flipped, I need to put myself first. It has taken the possibility of me having cancer to finally realise that. I cant keep making allowances for dh.
When I was in hospital and I was given the news of what was found and what they suspect, they kept asking if I wanted to call dh, or did I want them to call him. I actually didn't want him there as all I could think was 'something else to deal with'. How sad.

I am sorry @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy. The penny dropped for me when I realised that DH finds questions and offers of help to be unwanted intrusions. Questions like ‘how are you’ are genuinely effortful for him to answer. Plus he sees it as risky to ask how I am, at some level, since I might say anything, and he might not know how to deal with it, or get it ‘wrong’ meaning that it’s a relief not to have this expectation. It’s just so confronting to see this chasm. I understand where you’re at.

Genuinely sending you gentle hugs. I’m glad your self protection switch has flipped. And I wish you the best possible news for your health.

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy I'm so sorry you're going through this and I completely understand that feeling of dealing with it alone. When I had tests for breast cancer I went to all the initial appointments alone as I knew he wouldn't be able to give me the support I needed. I did allow him to come with me to the appointment when they confirmed the diagnosis and the only way he was able to show support was to pat my knee!!!!
I wish you all the very best and hope the news is positive. I know how awful the wait is but you'll be amazed how strong we become living in this environment. Sending you all the virtual love and support I can.

Well done @mcrlover - seriously impressive. I could not have studied in those sleepless years so kudos to you. Incredible. Sorry you’re not getting anything from your DH, AND he’s checking out of family life. Totally agree with the advice you’ve already had. Don’t let him get away with it. I wish I’d been harder when mine were little. I used to escape to family for support when my DH was at his most selfish, but I should’ve pushed him to step up.

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy my blood boiled when you said he said “well I have to respect your feelings so I won’t ask anymore if you prefer”.

Basically this just tells me he is relieved to have been let off the hook. “Phew! I don’t have to ask StopWaffling how she is anymore. One less thing to remember! And god forbid she said some emotional stuff at me because then what would I do?! Thank god I won’t have to deal with that potential scary conversation anymore!!!” The relief is palpable. But he dresses it up as being respectful of your wishes! So he’s being really shit but thinking he’s doing a wonderful job of disguising it as being considerate! How transparent.

Of course he should have protested and said he will try harder and begged you to please confide your feelings in him. Asked what he could do to reassure you. Instead he copped out without so much as a disingenuous protest even!

Screw him! You put yourself first from now on, and don’t you dare feel bad about that!

I’m so sorry that you are going through this, it sounds so scary and isolating. I can’t understand your husband at all really, even in the context of asd. It’s one thing to feel overwhelmed with daily task of emotions when you don’t understand but this isn’t a situation of misunderstandings, it’s an obvious physical stressor so no guessing. I guess some of their coping mechanisms have just switched them off entirely. It’s very selfish and unresponsive. I’m sorry you are living like this and I can only imagine how you got in the position of not sharing anything. You’ve done a good job of trying to protect and support him but now in return it’s not reciprocated.

In my understanding I thought that asd caused people to feel overwhelmed with their emotions and lots of confusion and miss understanding. I hear many times on here that sometimes it’s just because they don’t actually care and don’t want to deal with you but don’t want to be found out how little they care.

Hi @WhatNextImScared
First of all, I’m really sorry you’ve joined our club. But welcome anyway. Ask any questions, rant, whatever. We’re a quite friendly bunch here 😊😊

I have to say, I read your post and just saw myself 15~20 years ago. Same realisation of being totally unsupported. And same fear that I’d never be able to cope on my own financially.
So I stayed. I burried those feelings, tried to make it work at all cost. Gaslighted myself that it was all my fault (thanks to all the talk from autistic advocates telling us, NT, that we have to accommodate and if it doesn’t work it’s our fault)

And now nearly 20 years later, I can tell you. Don’t let that fear of finances stop you from putting yourself first and leave.
Spending years been second choice is likely to wreck your health (many of us on here struggle with chronic health conditions….). And THEN, leaving is even more of a struggle financially.
Its going to wreck your self esteem, your MH, teaching you to always out yourself second.

So my advice would be to really study what a divorce would look like financially.
Put everything in place to be secure (whether it’s the right work pattern to make it work in your own, a bit of saving etc….)
Unless your dh is the type to endanger his own dc (and some autistic folks are. They can’t see the danger and the fact a 5yo doesn’t have the same abilities as an adult), I’d start from the view your dh CAN do more than he currently is. Yes he is likeky to,find it harder than most to parent but it doesn’t mean he can’t at all.

More importantly, remember that things might be hard for a few years until your dc is more independent. But it’s not going to be easier to stay. You’ll still be parenting on your own. But you’ll have to deal with managing your dh on top.

I know it sounds stark. But I’m sure you’ve already tried to make it work. And if YOUR needs (for support, emotional availability, emotional intimacy etc etc) aren’t fulfilled, then theyre not. Regardiess of why. And these needs are important. YOU are important. Just as important as his needs are. As he is.
So yes. Put yourself first. The finance side, whilst very scary, is probably the easiest to solve. (I’m assuming here you’re well, able to work etc…. as you haven’t mentioned anything of the sort)

Questions like ‘how are you’ are genuinely effortful for him to answer. Plus he sees it as risky to ask how I am, at some level, since I might say anything, and he might not know how to deal with it, or get it ‘wrong’ meaning that it’s a relief not to have this expectation.

@WindyW your dh are really similar, it’s scary.

Also there is no realisation that the opposite reaction, not asking any question, actually carries just as many risks. Starting from the fact hurting your partner actually will lead to some ‘scary’ reactions too.

Thank you all again for your words of support, I genuinely appreciate them🪷
@BustyLaRoux I agree that his response was more about him than me. I remember thinking he doesn't even want to dig a little deeper to see if there is anything at all he could do to reassure or comfort me.
On the other hand it will be a relief to not have to deal with the almost automated, robotic, insincere attempts at comfort and reassurance. @classicslove the knee pat, back pat and 'sad face' are all too familiar. My poor daughter said that after i was taken away by ambulance, dad just patted her on the back, then walked away. She spent 20 mins crying in the shower.
Last year when he was diagnosed with Parkinsons, it was a nightmare. He completely shut himself off, literally shut himself in his room all day. I would ask how he was feeling and he would tell me about his actual physical feelings, how bad his arm tremor was, the leg cramp, never about how he was feeling. Eventhough i found it hard that he completely shut me out, I respected his way of dealing with things, but i continued to ask how he was feeling and how I could help. I couldn't imagine just not asking and leaving him to get on with it.

I’m so sorry @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy. I have found that there is a catalyst. An ‘enough is enough moment’.

You deserve love and care. To be nurtured.

Sending love from afar 🩷💐

@SpecialMangeTout3 yes so similar!