WTF is this behaviour?

[SquirrelsAreNuts]

For background, DH and I have a combined income of about £150k but he earns way more than I do. I have a minimum wage term-time job because I do all the childcare for our DC and DSC. We also live in one of the most expensive parts of the SE. Wouldn't be my choice, but it's so we can be close to DH's DC (my DSC).

We're comfortable but not rolling in it. I mention all that just because what triggered this thread was money, but it's not really about money IYSWIM?

We've had next year's holiday reserved but not paid for since the summer. It was coming up to the time we have to confirm everything and start putting deposits down and booking flights, etc. DH has been fully up to speed on all these plans, the timings, the costs, everything. I've managed the admin but have kept him informed of all the details at each step. As far as I was concerned he had signed off on all of it. I don't know what more I could have done, which is why I'm baffled.

Last night DH and I sat down together and spent about an hour searching the best flights in terms of price and time and figured out the most cost effective way to do it was fly out to one airport on a one way ticket and fly back from a different airport on a one way ticket.

We booked the outbound flight together and then he lost interest and went to sit in the front room. So I carried on and booked the inbound flight on my own (but with his agreement, I thought).

Once it was done I went into the front room and told him I'd booked the flights back and he started freaking out. Saying that now we're committed to the holiday cost and he didn't realise it was going to be so much. How much was I going to pay towards it, etc, etc. I was floored. What did he think we'd just been doing? It was such a weird reaction from him I didn't know how to respond other than WTF.

He freaked out so much he insisted I cancelled the whole thing. So this morning I've wasted a load of time cancelling the flights and trying to get our money back. The kids are going to be so upset.

He sort of has form for this. In the past he's agreed to having work done on our house (which is a fixer upper). Has let me put in a load of time and effort contacting builders and getting quotes, etc, only to say no to everything at the last minute.

I feel utterly powerless in this relationship in terms of finances. I don't think he's being controlling as such, it's more his extreme anxiety at spending any money. But the net effect on me and the kids is the same. House and garden is crumbling around our ears and we never go anywhere.

For the first time ever in our marriage I am wondering what it would be like to leave him as this latest holiday reverse ferret feels like one too many. But the thought is terrifying. I'm sure if you asked him, he'd say I'm a wasteful spendthrift who just wants the high life. But to him, the 'highlife' is putting the heating on, or having the dishwasher on anything but Eco setting.

I haven't been able to stop crying this morning but I can't put my finger on why. It's not just the cancelled holiday. It's the weird behaviour - letting me do all that organising and spending an hour booking flights with me then completely changing his mind - I don't even know what to call it.

It sounds as though he is very deliberately undermining you.
It's downright nastiness imo.
And yes controlling. He is asserting his position as the boss in the relationship. It's a very unequal balance of power.

No wonder you are upset Op.

Could he be doing something else with his money? Do you have access to his accounts? Could he be gambling or something and therefore doesn’t have the money to pay for it?

I wouldn’t leave him if it’s just based on his anxiety around money. He might be one that worries that it might one day run out, and if you leave him over it you won’t have any money to do anything at all if you only earn a minimum wage yourself

Is he an overthinker generally? It might be that he, like me, can a bit gung-ho and enthusiastic when everything is a potential, but the actuality of seeing the loss of the money out of the account makes him overthink. How are the accounts looking - can you afford this holiday/the heating/renovation work with ease, or will it put a strain on family life? And how did your DH grow up, was it in a family who had to watch every penny or with one parent who was a spendthrift?

I'd have a conversation about this. If you're comfortably off (and simply earning £150k between you does not make this inevitable) and incomings exceed outgoings, then he might need this gently pointed out. If this isn't the case, then he's got a point.

I don't think he's gambling or anything like that but I do think he is shit with money. Mathematically, we should be very comfortable each month, but I don't understand why he always complains we're skint. I don't have day to day visbility of our finances but he will show me if I ask him and is very transparent.

Our finances have always been separate. He got given a pretty large inheritance sum a couple of years ago and just put it into an ordinary current account. If it was up to me, I'd have sorted ISAs, pensions, other things to make that amount really work and grow the capital. When I mentioned it to him it was like it hadn't even occured to him.

He grew up really poor and has hoarding mentality when it comes to money in particular. It's incredibly draining.

It very definitely IS controlling. Because you can’t do right for doing wrong.

I had loads of this with my ex. He made my life an absolute misery

Yes he is a bit like this. It's taken a decade to get the house looking decent and now that it does, he loves it. But getting him to spend the money took literal years and many, many arguments. If it had been left to him we'd still be living in it as it was when we moved in.

It's not as if I want gold plated taps and the living room redecorated every year. We only replaced our bathroom when the floor was rotten and the bath fell through it.

I don't see an investment in our home as money down the drain. But for him, if it's not numbers in his bank account, it doesn't count. He is a good example of someone who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing. Except, perhaps unsurprisingly, when it comes to buying equipment for his hobby. Then only the best will do.

I would say it is controlling, the fact that you're upset might be a Brucie bonus to him, it might not. It might seem hard to believe this of him, with the positives in your relationship, but you booked the outgoing flight together then he left the room knowing you were going to book the homeward flight. When you told him you'd done it he reacted as he did. He had the opportunity to ask you not to book the next flight, to stop you, but he chose not to. He 'reacted' badly, it was an opportunity for him to upset you. He didn't just take that opportunity, he set it up.

You feeling utterly powerless whether in terms of finances or anything else obviously suits him. His behaviour works for him.

Except, perhaps unsurprisingly, when it comes to buying equipment for his hobby. Then only the best will do.

Cunt.

Did he grow up poor? My behaviour is the result of living in quite desperate poverty when my kids were small. Now I'm comfortably off and I see my bank balance looking healthy but there's still that lingering dread of not wanting to go back to 'how it was', when it was one single pizza between six for dinner. It can be a hard mindset to lose.

This is what I'm scared of. Can it really be the case? He's so... normal most of the time. Not a nasty person in general. If it's control then it's almost not even on purpose if that makes sense? I genuinely think he can't help himself. His anxiety over money is so great, he loses all rationality or empathy but not because he's inherently a dick.

But even so, I'm finding it increasingly hard to live with. I'm so furious about this holiday thing, I can't even imagine what would make it better right now.

What you call it is control and abuse. Why are you with him?!

Look up abuse OP. It's classic.

He's belittling you, manipulating you, making you doubt yourself, shouting at you over nothing, pulling the rug from under your feet making you question yourself. He has total control over you, your house, your finances, everything. You have no choice, no freedom, unless he decides you have it. You have no power to say no.

That is coercive control. I'm so sorry.

Why did you cancel everything? You could have told him to do it. What a waste of effort on your part. I would be annoyed too.
Maybe part of the answer is to try to start earning more yourself, especially if you've thought of leaving him? He probably won't change now if he's always done this.

"I feel utterly powerless in this relationship in terms of finances."

That is the most important sentence of your post. You can't continue like that. Regardless of whether you leave him or stay with him, you need to get a full time job and concentrate on developing a career. He will have to adjust his work accordingly and take on half the childcare. You can't continue to support him to be the main earner if he can't or won't share the proceeds. That only works if you're a team.

I suggest ring-fencing money for the family holiday (a separate savings account, put £400 a month in or whatever you want to spend). Try to build it up in advance and then agree together what to spend it on. I like holidays more than my husband so this works for us. I also try and earn extra money which we agree I can put towards the holiday budget.

Do you want to remain married to such a man?.

He indeed did grow up poor and has a hoarding mentality when it comes to
money - but not when it comes to his hobby. It’s one rule for him and quite another for you people.

What do you want to keep your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. Is this the model thst you want to teach them?. Currently at least you are showing them this is acceptable to you. I would cease doing that.

Do you think they such a man would take on half the childcare?. Very unlikely.

Yes, his grew up with his mum in a council flat and they had fuck all.They both still have the same mentality. My own childhood was very shit in lots of ways but I have no experience of financial insecurity, so although I do sympathise, I also find it very frustrating and exhausting.

Because I booked it all on my card - they can only speak to the card holder.

I'm going to make him tell the kids we're not going.

I think then, that this might be at the root of his problem. He could try therapy - but losing the mindset of 'MUST NOT SPEND MONEY' is very very hard.

This sounds really controlling. I am sure it isn't as straightforward as this but I would've refused to cancel the flights. I would have said 'look, we just booked the outbound, discussed the other flight and then I booked it. You can't just back out now. If you were unsure why did you let me book the first set of flights?'

If it is anxiety at play then he should calm down. But I think you need to stop bending to his whim when he changes his mind last minute. Just say tough, it's too late. If you don't want to do something don't tell me to arrange it.

I'd suggest therapy but he won't want to spend the money.

I did say exactly that. But because I'd booked it on my card, he was refusing to pay the balance and I can't afford the payments on my own, so I had no choice but to cancel. Or pay a huge amount of interest on top of paying the minimum each month.

That looks so awful written down but I just can't square it with my lived reality. My head is a mess.

You need to get more involved with the finances @SquirrelsAreNuts. Practically you’re the one with the finance skills in the relationship so it makes sense to use those skills iyswim? The inheritance sitting in a current account example would tip me over the edge! The different pots suggestion is a good one, so your DH can see how much is allocated to what rather than just seeing a ‘chunk’ of money disappear from a total - I always feel a bit apprehensive making a big spend even though it’s always thought through and researched.
If he won’t agree to try a different way then maybe it is a control method and that’s totally different

"I feel utterly powerless in this relationship in terms of finances."

This ends now. You don't need him to "show" you the account you should have a joint account that your salary goes into and his salary gets paid into so you can see exactly how much he earns. That way there are no surprise pay rises or bonuses. Out of that account should be all the direct debits and then you agree to equal spending. Not you spending your share on the children's stuff, that also comes out of the joint account.

Finances should be talked about and agreed for holidays and house stuff. You need to talk about the emergency fund and how much that has in it to free up other money for holidays/house stuff.