WTF is this behaviour?

[SquirrelsAreNuts]

For background, DH and I have a combined income of about £150k but he earns way more than I do. I have a minimum wage term-time job because I do all the childcare for our DC and DSC. We also live in one of the most expensive parts of the SE. Wouldn't be my choice, but it's so we can be close to DH's DC (my DSC).

We're comfortable but not rolling in it. I mention all that just because what triggered this thread was money, but it's not really about money IYSWIM?

We've had next year's holiday reserved but not paid for since the summer. It was coming up to the time we have to confirm everything and start putting deposits down and booking flights, etc. DH has been fully up to speed on all these plans, the timings, the costs, everything. I've managed the admin but have kept him informed of all the details at each step. As far as I was concerned he had signed off on all of it. I don't know what more I could have done, which is why I'm baffled.

Last night DH and I sat down together and spent about an hour searching the best flights in terms of price and time and figured out the most cost effective way to do it was fly out to one airport on a one way ticket and fly back from a different airport on a one way ticket.

We booked the outbound flight together and then he lost interest and went to sit in the front room. So I carried on and booked the inbound flight on my own (but with his agreement, I thought).

Once it was done I went into the front room and told him I'd booked the flights back and he started freaking out. Saying that now we're committed to the holiday cost and he didn't realise it was going to be so much. How much was I going to pay towards it, etc, etc. I was floored. What did he think we'd just been doing? It was such a weird reaction from him I didn't know how to respond other than WTF.

He freaked out so much he insisted I cancelled the whole thing. So this morning I've wasted a load of time cancelling the flights and trying to get our money back. The kids are going to be so upset.

He sort of has form for this. In the past he's agreed to having work done on our house (which is a fixer upper). Has let me put in a load of time and effort contacting builders and getting quotes, etc, only to say no to everything at the last minute.

I feel utterly powerless in this relationship in terms of finances. I don't think he's being controlling as such, it's more his extreme anxiety at spending any money. But the net effect on me and the kids is the same. House and garden is crumbling around our ears and we never go anywhere.

For the first time ever in our marriage I am wondering what it would be like to leave him as this latest holiday reverse ferret feels like one too many. But the thought is terrifying. I'm sure if you asked him, he'd say I'm a wasteful spendthrift who just wants the high life. But to him, the 'highlife' is putting the heating on, or having the dishwasher on anything but Eco setting.

I haven't been able to stop crying this morning but I can't put my finger on why. It's not just the cancelled holiday. It's the weird behaviour - letting me do all that organising and spending an hour booking flights with me then completely changing his mind - I don't even know what to call it.

I grew up in a poor household, DH had a very comfortable up bringing, I have worked hard and have a reasonable savings pot, DH is rubbish with money. I ended up paying for our holidays as he had no money, despite earning loads more than me, turned out he is a gambler. We had major discussions about the gambling, which is still happening on a much smaller scale. But I let him know in uncertain terms that I wasn't paying for our holidays alone, so he now puts money away every month into a holiday fund.
Could you suggest this approach to your DH, so he doesn't feel a sudden loss of funds?

I honestly think it's quite sad to have by most people's standards a heck of a wage and what sounds like a hefty I heritance but not be able to enjoy it.
The same with the poster who's dad has 750k!!!! What's the point if you never enjoyed it?
Is it just to be left for the next generation to live it up and have all the things you denied yourself you wife and your kids?

If her husband has the kids 50% of the time then presumably op would have the ability to get a better paid job.

Agree 100%. Except to add selfish cunt

I was sort- of feeling his mindset until.this update. Even though the business with the holiday sounds cruel and unkibdvto you and the childten.

So - he is a cruel, unkind, selfish cunt.

Start charging him the going rate for childcare, then book your own holiday without him!

I have a vague idea but I do need to get much more across this tbh. I'd be happy to take over managing all the finances but I don't think he would let me. He thinks I am 'untrustworthy' with money because when we met, I had some debt as a result of having to fund myself through uni (see my previous posts about growing up in an emotionally abusive household!)

He holds this debt against me even though it's quite hurtful because the reason for the debt is because I had to leave home ASAP at age 18 due to the abusive circumstances and he knows this. Whereas he lived with his mum until he was nearly 30.

I wouldn't be surprised if I went through his finances with a fine tooth comb and discovered his shortfall is comprised of multiple small amazon purchases. Every day there is at least one delivery. Nothing big. Small things like unusually-sized batteries or a new charging cable for one of his gadgets, random bits of tiny paraphernalia to do with his hobby equipment. Each worth £5-£10 on their own but you add up two of those per day per month and it makes a dent. I also know he spends a lot of money on crap at the supermarket for his lunch. It will be stuff like that.

Thank you for this super helpful post. Lots of great tips here.

What is the point of all the posters suggesting what they do with their finances (showing off) as clearly not going to happen with the OP

I have a family member who is very similar to this. She's rich but her attitude to money is extremely strange - she buys things every day, she can be quite generous in some ways but lives in a house that's falling apart because she refuses to spend money on it. She'll spend all of winter in bed so she doesn't put the heating on.

She's repeatedly agreed to finance big family projects - usually at her request - only to pull out at the last minute.

Her finances are a mess - she has about 50 different bank accounts, and no idea what's in what account. None of them are the best savings rates.

IMO her life is dominated by fear. And that's manifested into fear of losing money, which has resulted in erratic financial decisions.

I wouldn’t have cancelled it. If you’d booked the outgoing flights together, what was he expecting? That you’d swim back?

I think you need to nip this in the bud now- equal access to savings and income (ideally in your name or at the very least a joint account) or you go back to work and he covers 50% of the childcare (if necessary) or pays for it. Otherwise you’ve got a long and miserable life ahead.

This is what you need to sit down and discuss with him - the quality of life aspect.

Between us, DH and I earn a decent salary, but we've never been great with money - we have some savings, but nowhere near as much as we should have given our age and circumstances. We don't spend a lot on 'stuff' but we do spend on kids activities and 'experiences' - nice meals out, gigs, theatre etc

I'd been feeling really rubbish about this lately, but the other day, I saw on social media that an acquaintance of ours had died. We weren't close and hadn't spoken for years but he was around our age, similar point in life in terms of kids etc. His wife had written about all of the things they were planning on doing in the future. The whole thing hit both of us really hard.

I ended up having a conversation with DH saying it made me realise that I shouldn't feel bad about what we spend on enjoying life - it's not like we're getting into debt to do it and we are being sensible enough to put some money away for retirement etc, so won't be leaving ourselves short.

The upshot for me is we can't take it with us and I would rather enjoy life and have experiences with the kids, or help them out with money now than save up more money than we actually need for a retirement we might not even see or an inheritance for the kids when we're gone.

If he doesn't get it, then you may need to split up because otherwise you will just end up resenting him by which time, it might be too late for you to live the life you want!

If he does get it but it is just his money anxiety getting in the way - discuss with him you taking control of the finances. Agree what the minimum needed in savings / being put away in a pension is so he has that assurance, but then you manage the day to day stuff. You can keep the accounts in his name (although I would suggest having a joint account for family savings and spends).

That way, he has the assurance that the savings etc are there and he can check whenever he wants, but he doesn't have the anxiety over needing to transfer you large amounts of money etc

Rather strong word...

.. and highly justified.

I didn’t realise you’d been together so long!!

Is this getting better, worse or staying the same?

If it’s not getting any better can you really imagine living another 10+ years like this?

It’s a massive change but I’d seriously consider whether it’s worth ending things because this will have an impact on your mental health.

I absolutely love your system - we have something similar but not quite as robust, so I am totally going to nick some elements of yours (like the 'pleasure' account)

This is so weird, who books outgoing flights without considering the cost of flying home? It does sound like controlling behaviour tbh. I grew up very poor, dh working class, we earn 50k between us and live in a very expensive area but we manage fine and dont have this kind of drama over a holiday. I would be telling him to cop himself on or there is a real chance of your marriage ending, if he genuinely has anxiety around money then perhaps he needs to seek help with that. The reality is you chose a fixer upper and it needs fixing, you have a family and heating, family holidays etc are normal, especially with a good income.

Forensic accountant sounds like it would be a good expense.
I feel it’s important to know that being abused can come with a smiling face and only periodic rants. Not sure why this was ever going on your credit card? He is limiting your life and giving you less than him…that’s not decent behaviour - especially as you are sacrificing your financial future to raise your DC

My great aunt came from Salvation Army parents, and worked her whole life for the Army in low income roles. She was notorious for putting leftovers in her handbag, like half a bread roll that my father didn't finish at a restaurant. Everyone thought she was really really poor. When she died at 69 in the 1980s, her sister (my grandmother) went to clear out her decrepit, tiny, mouldy, cold flat and found 2 dresses and 1 pair of plastic shoes, and the only food in the kitchen was tins of cat food. My great aunt didn't have or like cats.

So it really boggled everyone's mind when they were told by the solicitor that great aunt had about a million in savings (most of it went to the Army). She must have saved every single penny her whole life. My grandmother was really upset with her sister - and upset for her sister - that she had lived such a penurious, comfortless, deprived life when it wasn't necessary. She also felt a bit chagrinned that all those years she and her school teacher husband had been treating her "impoverished" sister to dinners out and holidays with them - where my grandparents paid everything - her sister had had 200 fold more money than they ever did.

I see extreme stinginess as being a mental illness that is akin to hoarding. There is often no reasoning with people who are afflicted with it, they don't recognise that it's a problem, and in fact they feel superior to those who "squander" their money (i.e. use it to live a normal life). They also feel threatened by family members who want them to seek mental health treatment, they quickly suspect them of "trying to get their hands on my money".

It's really bad - for you AND your children - that you have no control over your finances. I suspect that you will find it difficult to wrest back control, he will resist this very strenuously, because of the superior and paranoid mentality described above. He sees it as HIS money and you as a wastrel. He is very unlikely to change, these things are baked in very hard.

You're in a really parlous state. You likely have little in the way of pension or career. And he has slowly taken over almost every inch of the financial power in your life. Whether you ultimately stay with him or not, this has to change dramatically and soon.

I did, because I wanted to show how complex and lengthy it can be to resolve a situation like this - there is no quick fix. Fortunately in my situation dh was not controlling or difficult and we have eventually achieved a very manageable balance.

But also by putting in all the detail, OP might get a sense of whether they could even ever get to the first step.

I didn't post to show off how clever we were, but to show how hard it can be and how cumbersome the solution might be when one partner has such a level of anxiety,

It is sometimes so irrational with him it does feel like dealing with a metal illness. There have been times over the years when he’s said or done stuff like with the flights booking last night and I feel as if I’m in a parallel universe.

Yeah, this too!
It would never occur to me to book outgoing without the return flights.
Normal behaviour is to book a return flight with same airline surely ? At the same time ?
This is one reason I’m sure he’s doing this on purpose. But it sounds like there’s deeper financial abuse at play.

He is not going to change but you will have to change the way you do things.

You know he had form for this so next time line it all up and let him book it.
He left the room on purpose.

You need to preempt his behaviour and be ready for him. You are smart woman.

I have a minimum wage term-time job because I do all the childcare for our DC and DSC.

I’d be changing that sharpish.

If I never suggested we go on holiday or go out somewhere nice, it would never occur to him to think of it. I can completely imagine a version of our life where I stop doing anything and he doesn't notice. He would go to work, come home, do his hobby on weekends and then be mildly surprised to learn that he had been doing that for a whole year with no variation.

Weirdly this is exactly what my DH is like. However he's always encouraging me to spend more on food and will usually decide to get an expensive, better version of most things.

Just thought it was interesting that they could share some traits but be polar opposite in others!

He needs to pay his share of enabling you to work. It’s not your responsibility to solely pay for or provide childcare.

I bet he went to check the Man Utd game result and lost a bet