WTF is this behaviour?

[SquirrelsAreNuts]

For background, DH and I have a combined income of about £150k but he earns way more than I do. I have a minimum wage term-time job because I do all the childcare for our DC and DSC. We also live in one of the most expensive parts of the SE. Wouldn't be my choice, but it's so we can be close to DH's DC (my DSC).

We're comfortable but not rolling in it. I mention all that just because what triggered this thread was money, but it's not really about money IYSWIM?

We've had next year's holiday reserved but not paid for since the summer. It was coming up to the time we have to confirm everything and start putting deposits down and booking flights, etc. DH has been fully up to speed on all these plans, the timings, the costs, everything. I've managed the admin but have kept him informed of all the details at each step. As far as I was concerned he had signed off on all of it. I don't know what more I could have done, which is why I'm baffled.

Last night DH and I sat down together and spent about an hour searching the best flights in terms of price and time and figured out the most cost effective way to do it was fly out to one airport on a one way ticket and fly back from a different airport on a one way ticket.

We booked the outbound flight together and then he lost interest and went to sit in the front room. So I carried on and booked the inbound flight on my own (but with his agreement, I thought).

Once it was done I went into the front room and told him I'd booked the flights back and he started freaking out. Saying that now we're committed to the holiday cost and he didn't realise it was going to be so much. How much was I going to pay towards it, etc, etc. I was floored. What did he think we'd just been doing? It was such a weird reaction from him I didn't know how to respond other than WTF.

He freaked out so much he insisted I cancelled the whole thing. So this morning I've wasted a load of time cancelling the flights and trying to get our money back. The kids are going to be so upset.

He sort of has form for this. In the past he's agreed to having work done on our house (which is a fixer upper). Has let me put in a load of time and effort contacting builders and getting quotes, etc, only to say no to everything at the last minute.

I feel utterly powerless in this relationship in terms of finances. I don't think he's being controlling as such, it's more his extreme anxiety at spending any money. But the net effect on me and the kids is the same. House and garden is crumbling around our ears and we never go anywhere.

For the first time ever in our marriage I am wondering what it would be like to leave him as this latest holiday reverse ferret feels like one too many. But the thought is terrifying. I'm sure if you asked him, he'd say I'm a wasteful spendthrift who just wants the high life. But to him, the 'highlife' is putting the heating on, or having the dishwasher on anything but Eco setting.

I haven't been able to stop crying this morning but I can't put my finger on why. It's not just the cancelled holiday. It's the weird behaviour - letting me do all that organising and spending an hour booking flights with me then completely changing his mind - I don't even know what to call it.

💯 This says everything you need to know about what kind of man he is

@SquirrelsAreNuts as a matter of interest do you know why his relationship with his children's Mother broke down, if that is what happened and not a bereavement. He may have been like this with her or it could be that his behaviour now is because of his relationship issues with her regarding money. This may be nothing at all to do with the situation but then again it may well have some kind of bearing on why he is the way he is. Just wondering why he is so mean. If a partner was like that with me even if they then agreed to the house/holiday/car or whatever, I would not enjoy the experience/item, as it would be "spolied" for me. Take care and think long and hard about what you really want from a partner and father to your child(ren), but please do not leave it too long. Time waits for no man or woman.

I’m confused as to how having an income of £150k and not rolling in it go together.

Have you told him that you're angry?

@SquirrelsAreNutsWhilst I think there might be some poverty trauma going on, the whole thing screams coercive control. I think you are being abused. you said:

That looks so awful written down but I just can't square it with my lived reality. My head is a mess.

which sounds like cognitive dissonance. It happens when arbitrary rules and control is inflicted on you and you feel confused, you feel like you did something wrong even though deep down you know you didn’t. i lived with a man like this and agreeing to holidays and than having a last minute change of hart because of his money / last minute work commitments / insisting he wasn’t aware of the dates was a strategy to undo weeks or sometimes month of me planning holidays. the so called reasons never stacked up. he got a thrill out of pulling the plug on something i had researched and planed to immaculate detail. he was the same with social plans by the way, cancelling an hour before we need to leave the house was typical for him.

i’d suggest you research coercive control and emotional abuse a bit more to see if there is more that matches his behaviour

I've been in relationships with two controlling men. I got together with both of them in the first place because they seemed so different from my father, who was a control freak.

But then I realised they were the same: they were very easygoing and laid back about everything except things they considered important.

Then it was their way or the highway—literally, one of them used to say, "If it doesn't happen the way I want, I'm moving out."

So I backed down. (Until the day I didn't, and he packed his belongings, incredulously and very slowly to give me lots of time to apologise and beg him to stay...and he did indeed move out, to his own astonishment.)

Ugh. Poor you. Anxiety can be so controlling. He may be a piece of work, or just so anxious it makes him deeply selfish. The problem With living with a man like this is that you get quietly trained into walking on eggshells, not putting the heating on, saying no thanks to a treat, because you’re just so habituated in avoiding their freekouts

divorce and trying to earn your own money and run your own home is really, really hard. But it’s also like leaving a cult. You don’t realise how controlled you are, until you are not.

i left, had all the drama, had to give up our house, completely change what i do for a living and massively increase my salary. I nearly burned out.

It’s been 6 years for me and I still wake up in the night and hug myself when I realise I don’t have to do any of his bullshit any more.

I bought a car I wasn’t allowed, get my kids concert tickets and takeaways, book whatever holidays I fancy and basically do whatever I want without anyone spoiling it for me.

I can’t believe I lived like that for so long.

OP, I posted upthread on leaving my emotionally abusive husband and how long it took for me to accept it. I now remember I knew things weren't right last year, and read Why does he do that. However, I came away thinking he wasn't that bad.

Your husband gets you to persuade him to spend more money on himself.

Abusers are brilliant alot of the time.

Please, please read about the trauma bond and living with emotional abuse.l and how sporadic it is. How you get blamed for reacting to their bad behaviour. How you spend so much time.trying to understand their point of you and the why. You are being heavily manipulated. Look how much empathy you were feeling FOR HIM.

And the PP who said about ruined social plans, too. So often. Work emergencies, to avoid completely or an argument with an 'ungrateful' child at chrostmas. You just see the patterns when you look back.

I have to say OP I do think you have been so used to this behaviour that you have not seen it all for what it is. Picking it apart is confusing and hurtful because there are fine moments. I think that's classic abuse really. There is definitely financial abuse.

My exh was very similar with money in that he panicked over spending....however he would never have spent money on lunch for himself or something arriving every day almost from Amazon. He literally panicked over spending. That kind of behaviour from your DH doesn't add up to the not wanting to spend any money. He chooses where he doesn't want to spend money. And yes, just because he has clothes that predate your relationship, he is still choosing to spend on himself willy nilly. The lunch thing is actually huge for someone who thinks spending is wasteful....think about it.

Also the behaviour of sitting with you to book then walking away and doing what he did, that's far far too controlling for my liking. Just because he can be nice, doesn't mean he isn't controlling.

However you look at it, your life seems pretty miserable. It's ok if you go along with his wishes, what he says and don't rock the apple cart essentially and that's really hard to face up to. But it's a shit life! Can you imagine when all the kids are gone? Can you imagine still not being able to spend any money. Waiting to be the richest person in the graveyard?

I say all of this as someone who grew up with nothing in terms of money. My parents still live in the same council house. They're super proud of their home and it's immaculate. Just telling you this because they are not scared of spending money and they aren't living in a shit heap. They don't have loads of savings or anything but have a normal approach to money and share everything.
I have had some ridiculous debt (from being stupid, being stuck in a rut and having no access to money) but I have cleared it all on my own and will never be in that position again. I am in a very different and fortunate position now. DH is very generous (although he always says he's very mean - he isn't!) and our house is paid off. I work for him part time but all money is ours. He doesn't even bat an eyelid at paying for things for my son who lives with us. Not that I expect this. I'm just trying to show you that he sees our life as a household and it's all ours.

But anyway it's all fucking with your head. And that is what abuse is designed to do.

It's not like he can say to you 'sorry sorry I panicked, I know I'm being ridiculous' he actually just blames you. He makes it all your fault and you react accordingly by feeling guilty. It's a really shitty place to be and I hope you're ok

Oh and what Bansheed said! Nutshell right there

Control freak.

I've been with DH 17 yrs. Married 11 yrs. We have a smaller family though. When we first got together he was tight. His parents are very very frugal. Learned behaviour. We spoke extensively about what impact penny pinching would have on our relationship. He became not as tight but is still very considered with what he purchases. If he can justify it as worthwhile/value will increase with time he is happy to spend on it.

He however sees holidays as a waste of money. I used to have this mindset too. As our DC grows though I am more adamant that we have other experiences and that includes travel as a family. This summer just gone I sorted holidays out as he wasn't interested. A few low level arguments about it but I wasn't left carrying the full costs of it. He enjoyed it in the end! It doesn't mean the next holiday we plan isn't going to be another pain to sort out. He just doesn't think it's worth the money. Does not see the value in spending thousands for a week/10 days somewhere. We have a nice house in London and he is of the opinion it's fine to stay here in that 6 week stretch, especially as the weather is generally nicer.

I personally think your DH needs to read this thread. If he cares about you or his family he will revise some of his behaviours. Freaking out and making you cancel is not on. From what you have written it seems like he also agonises about various pricey items he wants/needs. No one is going to change overnight. If I was consistently making my partner unhappy and I gave a crap (huge caveat), I would do something about it. If he doesn't then I would be making plans to leave.

I completely disagree, her husband should not read this thread, at all.

absolutely do NOT show him this thread, saying that is extremely dangerous advice. it will give him the chance to hide his abuse and be even more manipulative between the nice and abusive moments and make it harder for you to see his covert control.

Agree. That's rarely, if ever, a good idea.

💯 this. He will absolutely blame her for disloyalty. And she will no longer be able to post.

So many people post on these threads with zero clue. Just like the legal threads.

If you are not qualified to comment best not to

I agree. I can understand why some people often think it's a good idea, with so many posters thinking along the same lines, but it's not going to improve the behaviour of the person the OP is asking about and it is, guaranteed, going to make life more difficult, who knows how badly, for the OP.

How are you this morning @SquirrelsAreNuts ?

Do not share this thread with him. Frankly that poster should edit the suggestion out if her comment. Its dangerous and foolish.

To get back to the issue: sometimes OP has trouble recognizing familiar behavior as abuse. It may be easier to see it as repetitive and cyclical selfish trauma reenactments. He agrees to spend money on something OP wants and goes through an almost ritual dance display (I keep my tab open for a year considering a couch, I actively discuss the holiday plans) and then once OP has done the work and gotten her hopes up he crashes the car, humiliates her, and walks away from the wreckage. Job done.

Looked at from that perspective we don’t need to wonder about his attitude towards money or why he soends it on himself and not OP. The whole cycle of promising, engaging, fantasizing, then rejection and humiliation is the issue. This cycle is what is important. Not the money. Thats just the way he know he has won.

@pikkumyy77you nailed the abusive cycle description. OP can’t see it because it is designed to be invisible, it is designed to look like it is about money whilst it us about control entirely.

I’m adding my voice to those who say do not, under any circumstances, show this thread to your husband, @SquirrelsAreNuts . It would just give him a few more sticks to beat you with.

He is controlling and abusive. He will not change.

Read WHY DOES HE DO THAT, by Lundy Bancroft. There is a free PDF online.

Sounds like he may have a money problem he hasn’t told you about

To be honest, I can’t see him changing on his own without some type of professional therapy. And by the sounds of it he wouldn’t be prepared to go? Maybe he’d see a financial advisor with you? Yes he had a poor childhood and that hasn’t left him, but, this is not an excuse to behave like this. I feel sorry for you and the kids. You aren’t a team, I cringed when I read the term ‘he signed it off’ or such like, in regards to him contributing to a purchase, which makes him sound more like hes your line manager than husband!

Is he mad or does he want to kill himself?
I hope that he doesn't expect you or the children to eat food which has gone off, on what he's earning very weird behaviour.

He sounds very controlling and entitled.
I know this may sound a bit old fashioned and you are busy

But could you not get get some kind of part time work you could do from home. But don't tell him about it and keep.the money for yourself

🌻🌻🌻

Right?? No one is on the breadline, a holiday is not a silly extravagance. Don’t make excuses for this twit - he is frittering money away on shite and keeping the rest of you short. UGH so painful.