Choosing DH or teenage nearly adult children

[789vghu8]

Been married 20 years with 2 teenage kids. When I met DH he was a breath of fresh air he had his own house, a really good job , was quite intelligent and most important of all and why I fell for him was how good he was at conversation and he was interested in me as a person (and not just a snog or an easy shag) We met in a nightclub!!!

He has been a fantastic husband in the early days but not a great father unfortunately, and because of this I started to resent him many years ago. As time has gone on and the children got older he got better but still couldn't and can't understand why I do so much for them and why now they are still living with us.

It all come to a head today as we went to a uni open day with my DD. He doesn't do family stuff so we have done all other visits on our own but this one was bit further away and I wasn't comfortable driving that far so I asked him for help - (I rarely ask him for any type of help as it just causes stress so I do everything to do with the children on my own) He reluctantly agreed but his answer was if DD wants to go to uni open day she is 17 she goes on her own at 17 why the hell would she want her parents tagging along and he got really angry with me last night as he said that there would be no other parents at the open day even though I assured him there would be as I have done several open days these last few weeks.

So apparently we have all sucked the life out of him since my eldest was born by putting so many demands on him -first it was parents evening , then swimming lessons, then football games, birthday parties all things i expected him to attend but actually after 2 years of asking I didn't expect any type of involvement from him. He says now the children are older I am still running round after them and I need to decide who is the priority - them or him.

He will never collect or pick children up from anywhere, never been to watch my sons football games or ever looked after the children for more than 3 hours.

I have sucked the life out of him with all my expectations.

However he will take my auntie to all her hospital appointments and is very helpful to our neighbours. This is because they are old and infirm and unable to look after themselves. If myself or one of the kids asks for a favour he won't help us out.

He wants me to choose. Kids are 19 and 17 and almost adults but I still want to do stuff with them and I am really close to both of them which he can't understand but as he was very distant when they were little it has always fallen on me to do everything and as a result neither child really has a relationship with him which is what he wants but I can't choose between him and them so I really feel stuck in the middle. Kids will not need me soon but if I don't stop doing things with them I will lose him and I don't know why I am so scared as he has never really been 'there'

Your update about your DH's childhood is so sad. He is modelling his own parents selfish behaviour and wants you to do the same. You don't just dump your kids when they are 14 or 18.

He obviously needs counselling for himself to talk about his childhood.

You seriously need to consider whether you can stay with him, although you have stayed so many years already, knowing that he had no interest in the DC.

You can't let your DC grow up this same way, they need to know that their father's behaviour is not the norm so that the trend stops with your DH.

OP your update just makes things worse. Again you have failed to talk about your children and their emotions! It’s all about you and your husband.
Your husband is a prick and you sound very weak - how can you want to be with someone who hates his own children? Just because he cooks and cleans doesn’t make him a good person.
Tell us about your children and how they feel living with a cold, selfish bastard. Have they never mentioned feeling unloved and neglected?

I think your later posts in which you say he's so "great" when you are alone together are just you trying to convince yourself and us as to why you have stayed with him. I wonder how much truth there is in him being so great alone given that you initially said you "should have left him years ago".

For me what it comes down to is that this man who is so great when you are together alone, who cooks from scratch, who you apparently want to grow old with has made you feel so confused & unhappy that you are on Mumsnet seeking advice from strangers.
If he really was so great & really loved you he wouldn't have put you in this position. He would see how his behaviour upsets you and would try to change, through therapy perhaps, out of love and respect for you. Obviously he should do it for his children too but definitely for you if he is such a loving husband.

His attitude to his children is awful and making excuses for him regarding his childhood, or him being "autistic" are just that, excuses. You know deep down that there is no excuse for the way he behaves towards them. I can't understand why his attitude hasn't given you the biggest ick ever.

Why on earth have you stayed with him? What a horrible experience for your children and example to them.

Sounds like he got 'triggered' by parenting and everything he didn't get came up to the surface. He got resentful and withdrew.

Maybe he'll be better once they move out he might gain some perspective.

I would agree.
I think that any woman could describe such a pathetic selfish arse as a brilliant husband as he refused to parent for years, gives a clear indication of where her bar is.

I hope those children put huge distance between them and their parents and leave them to each other.

I couldn't stomach to look at such an abusive controlling arsehole, much less describe him as a great husband.

Growing up with a father who has zero interest in you, and wants you out of the house leaves a huge mark.

I obliged my father and yet he was surprised when I didn't bother coming back and he died unloved, unmourned.

I agree. She’s chosen to prioritise him for her kids entire lives and she’ll carry on choosing him every time. She will be counting the days til the kids move out so they can pretend they don’t exist.

Shes made her choice she wanted validation

One of your kids IS an adult, and the other will be within a year. (Inclined to agree with pp who make the point about child support...). Maybe think about how you want the relationship to be when they're 25 or 32 or 40 and you'll find your answer. Or how it'll be with grandchildren, if you have them. DH's fantasy about the grandparent relationship seems unlikely to come true, especially if he's only really happy in silence and can't bear kids chattering and asking for things. And if you've agreed to, say, provide childcare two days a week, no, you can't just "give them back" the moment they're a bit trying. It seems unlikely this will work out any better than it did with the DC.

Do you want to be divorced? If not, I think you need to tell him that it's not about "priority" between family members - it's a family, everybody should be everybody else's priority - and he is the one with a decision to make. Is he going to accept that you are going to have normal relationships with all your family members and stop whining, or is he going to carry on like this and become more and more isolated and miserable? (We haven't even got on to what happens to the both of you in old age - I shudder to think. Does he think the DC will suddenly want to be his carers if you're not around? Or help him if he's the carer? Or expect you to care 24/7 without so much as a visit from the DC?). Give it to him straight: "You had terrible neglectful parents and it's really fucked you up. My kids, thank God, unlike you, have one normal loving parent, and that's not going to change. I don't have a choice to make, you do. Let me know when you have and then we can plan accordingly." You're not the one behaving abnormally here, he is. He is an adult and can make his own choice about whether he's going to stop acting like this or not. Don't pander.

Both kids still live at home and have no intention of moving out - DS decided the uni we visited was too far and wants to stay living at home . Both kids are quite reliant on both of us in different ways- me because I still do things for them (ie lifts, go for days out, spend time with them, help them navigate life situations etc) and H for all the domestic things he does for them - and maybe I over compensate as DH has never spent time with them. As I mentioned before DH does all the house management so he does all their washing and cooks for them so I suggested this morning that maybe because he does all this type of stuff for them maybe that is why they have no intention of moving out they are onto a winner domestically. I did suggest earlier this morning that maybe later on today instead of sorting the washing maybe he could go out with DS to currys as he wants a new TV - but he just can't grasp that and thinks it is far more important that he makes sure DS's washing is done than helping him buy a TV - at 17 he is old enough to buy a TV without his dad's help but yet he seems to think at 17 he isn't old enough to do his own washing.

Some of it just doesn't make sense. Neither child has a problem with their dad as they have never known any different. DD and him do speak a bit now as she is a older they can speak about more adult things. I nearly left him a couple of years ago but I didn't want to hurt the children and despite everything they do seem to love him and just accept him for who he is. DD remembers vividly a day out we had when she was about 8 and DH had a breakdown in the car park because it all got too much and the kids constantly wanted his attention because it was a rarity being out with him and I remember her telling me I was mean making him come out with us. Day to life has been much simpler easy and stress free without him being involved.

We have only started going away in the last year or so as kids are old enough to stay on their own. I have also suggested before that maybe he can teach them to cook and how to do washing etc as this would be a good way to spend time with them .

My husband began to behave like yours when we had children. He was just so separate from us, he may well have been a lodger for all the interest and participation he took in our family life. He began during that whole He's old enough now to do this he can do this on his own. Why does he need swimming lessons, a trip to park etc

I told him, you build a relationship now with your children because they will leave us, but I want them to return as adults, knowing we didn't just care take them for the minimum amount of time the law says we are responsible.

Now children are teenagers I genuinely enjoy my time with them, we have a great relationship. I know time will come when they go but there is no hurry and I have assured there is always a home where ever I am.

I told my husband, I would never forgive him if my children did not come to my home because he was there .

I would choose my children over my husband , a husband like yours at first, every time. I know children will go and people say well, who will you have then?

I will have my children, and my own life and good memories- I will have lost nothing, because that man is not really there.

My friends daughter often asks my friend why her Dad never cuddles her or tells her he loves her x children do know if they aren’t loved as they should be x

I wonder what is going on in his head, and how he explains his behaviour to himself.

DD remembers vividly a day out we had when she was about 8 and DH had a breakdown in the car park because it all got too much and the kids constantly wanted his attention because it was a rarity being out with him and I remember her telling me I was mean making him come out with us.

wtf OP he is such a BABY. I’m feeling so livid reading these updates.

@789vghu8 Neither child has a problem with their dad as they have never known any different.

This is so sad. Your poor, poor kids.

Neither child has a problem with their dad as they have never known any different.

Sorry OP, but I think you’re kidding yourself.

They do know different, just not in their own home. They will have friends with loving and involved dads. Dads who go on days out, go on holidays, take an interest in uni, show love and pride and who make sure they know they can call on them for anything at any time.

I saw the stark differences between my dad and my friends dad at only 10 years old.

There is no way they have no problem with how they are treated.

At best, it is somehow repressed, for now.

Have your children’s lives been ruined by this OP? Are they happy and positive or anxious and hostile? This would affect my response to you. Lots of dads aren’t great (absent, abusive, work obsessed) but kids can sometimes ‘accept’ that because it’s their norm. I would say my dad was rubbish (older generation) but I understood parenting wasn’t in his skill set and I really liked him as a person and we had a great relationship when we were adults.

It’s also difficult to know whether you do too much for your kids. I didn’t do any uni open days for example. I would have been mildly annoyed had my DC interrupted a night out for demands for the wi fi password - and, in fact, they would never have done that. I do find a lot of young people today seem to expect their parents to be on call 24/7. I expect I’ll get flamed here but it never hurts to be reflective.

It does sound as though your DH has major issues around his own parenting. My parents were similarly obsessed with each other and I felt very much like a third wheel. But it made me fiendishly independent and self reliant; your DH sounds very capable but perhaps unwilling to give too much of himself.

You have a complex situation there to unravel, but if your DC seem to take him in their stride, perhaps it’s worth working on? When they’re living their independent lives, there may be a new relationship to be forged.

I wouldn’t respect someone so callous and cold hearted and wouldn’t want to spend time with him after kids are gone.
he’s selfish asshole, help to auntie and neighbours notwithstanding

dump him

He has admitted several times that fatherhood is not for him and he made a massive mistake having children but he says he is looking forward to grandchildren because he can try again and they aren't his children so there are no expectations and he can give them back when he has had enough. He had a great relationship with his grandad as his parents were so wrapped up in each other he spent alot of time with his grandad

Well let’s hope that your DC don’t have children and suddenly realise exactly how shit a dad your husband is, and decide they won’t be giving him the chance to do that to their children.

One of those tasks is solitary and the other requires he spend time with his son. Cooking is respite from parenting in a sense, I say this as a toddler mum who loves the peace of cooking dinner while my son is playing with his dad, I can just listen to a podcast or watch something in the background and it's bliss.

So although your husband is providing food for the kids, he's not actually spending time with them and you asked him directly, he's chosen to continue the solitary pursuit instead of spending time with your kid.

Does he struggle with other people too, adults? Are you his chosen person and that's it or can he tolerate the 'demands' friends bring too. People demand things of others simply by existing tbh, a polite hello here and there, a conversation, a question answered, myriad ways most of us don't feel as a burden but clearly your husband does.

This is quite difficult to read. Your poor children. He won't even eat a meal in the same room as them, and can't stand that they talk in their own house? That's a lot more than being a shit or absent father, that's emotionally abusive behaviour being constantly grumpy because someone is existing in their own home. You don't seem to grasp how damaging this has been for your children. Yes they might not have wanted you to break up - even children who are being sexually or physically abused don't want their families to break up. This doesn't mean that its not the best thing for them. You know that its really not healthy for your children to think this is normal? Your daughter is likely to marry someone similar, your son is likely to act the same way towards his children (just as your husband treated his children the same way as his parents treated him) because its normal to them and by staying you've allowed the cycle of abuse to continue.

I think you need to leave and you owe them a huge apology. Why would you want to live with someone like this, just because you have fun together doesn't mean he is a nice person. And yes your kids won't need you as much (although they probably will for a few years) as they get older. But plenty of people go on holiday with their parents, visit them often, spend Christmas together, ask for help with grandchildren etc. You can still be involved. If you want to be. Does he really think he will have a relationship with grandchildren when he can't hide his contempt for their parents?

You seem to think it's a choice between choosing your kids and then being alone after they've moved out in a few years, or staying with a horrible man for the rest of your life. There is a third option of choosing your kids and a decent life of your own with hobbies, friends, and continuing to have a good relationship with your children.

Another update another attempt to justify why she’s choosing him

I can’t read this anymore - those poor kids conditioned to accept parents who don’t give a shit

@789vghu8 he really reminds me of my husbands stepdad who really wants to control his environment, but you cant do that with other human beings just being people in the same space. Eating alone, not interacting much with his children, all says he is controlling his own world and ehat he can cope with, however it's extremely sad that its with his own children and giving them the burden of knowing that their dad doesn't really want to be their father. Perhaps all this time he's been exerting himself, he has his own thresholds only he can know, however it doesn't make it okay.

I genuinely don't understand how people (usually women) can be physically and emotionally attracted to someone who treats their children badly. How do you do switch that part off OP? I'm not being goady, I really want to know. We hear so many cases of children being abused or mistreated by new partners or step-parents, even worst when its the child's biological parent. My ex's father was the same, nasty, emotionally abusive shit and his wife (ex's mother) worshipped the ground he walked on. I look at them together and just feel like saying, how can you worship the man who wrecked your son's childhood, damaged him emotionally an made it damn near impossible for him to have a healthy relationship with his own son?

i haven't read everyones responses, i am going to make a suggestion.

They're 17 & 19. Talk to your children, especially the 19yo, ask them what they think and want for you and their relationship moving into adulthood.

You can't choose on your own, you have to involve them in this discussion.

My SIL's Dad was scarily similar to yours, i think i only met him once in the time my brother has been married to SIL.. but her mum is part of our family by proxy.

They just accepted her dad was who he was, didn't like that he bullied her mom, but ignored it and enjoyed the time together they had without him.. it just became the norm to ignore him and leave him to whatever he was doing. SIL still loved her dad, she just didn't like him much.

OP

i think your words will come back to haunt you. Denial is indeed a powerful force.