Something isn't right thread #2

[FourAndFive]

Thanks so much for all your help and support. I can't believe the first thread is full - there isn’t a huge amount to update on right now, but I am looking forward to the future with my head held high, whatever the outcome. I'll keep posting.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5391850-something-isnt-right-emotional-affair-or-just-friends?page=1

Thank you for posting
I admire your strength
Seems as if things are back but on your terms. So good.
Stick at it.
Good luck x

@FourAndFive you'll never feel truly happy and secure with him. The worry is that when you're past retirement age you'll regret having stayed with him, especially if he's in poor health and needs your help. I was in a similar situation. I stayed but was always tense and never truly happy. My misery ended when he died. When I look at my life now I regret not leaving. So many wasted years.

I've a friend who took her husband back after a physical affair. I dont know if it got better but they stayed together for years.

You dont need to reread the thread so I'd see it not as dredging up the past but as an opportunity for you to sound off whenever it gets too much. Maybe a better release than punching a pillow and potentially of use to anyone else wondering what to do.

That’s a great update @FourAndFiveit doesn’t predict the future but it demonstrates that you are very self aware, that you are checking in with yourself all the time - and anger is healthy - it’s a signal of a boundary you may not have been aware or some unresolved or unprocessed business - so pay attention to what it’s highlighted for you, examine in, process it. It might be some detail that’s bugging you out - you have every right to ask him and he has a responsibility to answer. You may not like that answer but it’s part of the washing out. And you are flushing these things out because you are optimistic for progress and resolution. And if you keep checking in on yourself one day you will know, when you are beyond see-sawing that this is OK and worth holding on to or alternatively it’s not, that you are done and you will walk away satisfied that YOU did your very best. Just keep checking in on yourself - it’s very early days, red raw, really it’s a grief coming in big waves, that recede and (hopefully) get smaller over time. And time is when you will know - if after 3 years it’s behind you - then you are fine. But he could be ‘perfect’ now and forever but in a year you could feel that YOU are done.

I get not checking his phone - it’s because in reality you don’t trust him right now because he systematically broke that trust - he made choices day in day out over many months where you and your DC were not his priority. So he needs to earn back that broken trust and it will take years. You don’t need to check up because you do not need to be so undignified and emotionally hijacked. You have already signed the divorce papers once you start on that wild goose chase. You don’t need him to do anything wrong to decide to call it all off - you can do that if he’s perfect because it will be about how you feel. Best of luck to you and brilliant news about your Dad. Take care of YOU.

OP, marriage is such an intimate space.
Your partner is either your safe place or not.
Long term it really is that simply.
Why?
Because if he no longer feels like your safe place after betraying the marriage you once shared, then you are just treading water with him.

I think everything you are experiencing now is what you need to do and feel, processing everything, until you get to a place of real clarity.

You may think you love him fiercely but I think you love the memory of what you thought you had with him.

This is a process and it will take the time to work it out.
I hope you do.

Don't live in fear, drifting into retirement, full of simmering unresolved resentment, brimming with regret for wasting more years.

After you knew in your gut it was over and you simply deserved better years and years ago.

This. xx

@FourAndFive this is under your control, in that you can only control what is within your power and responsibility to control. Until he feels safe for you again, this will be your security and power. He, and how he behaves, is not.
What he needs to do is know what is under his control, and therefore his responsibility, and act accordingly.
His behaviour is under his control, his reassuring you that he is your safe space is under his control and should be his top priority.
You’re not going to feel that he’s your safe space for a while, unfortunately and only time will tell if he ever can be again, because as you heal you will either feel better about him and be able to continue together, or sometimes people see that the damage was too great. If he messed up again it’s a no brainer, but sometimes as pain and shock subside and you feel stronger, you might see that the breach of trust was too far for you however he turns out and however hard he tries. Some damage can be repaired and some can’t. Only you know how safe you feel and how long you are prepared to feel that way if it doesn’t change. Feeling unsafe forever is too sad to contemplate, nobody wants to live like that.
Feeling unsafe for a while is horrible, but initially it is no bad thing in reconciliation. You don’t feel safe because you were betrayed, and trusting someone immediately after a betrayal, before they’ve made amends and proved over time that they can earn back trust, is foolhardy. When the person you thought was your protector betrays you, you protect yourself. Put your own life jacket on before helping others, is good advice. Protect yourself now and don’t do any work on the marriage on his behalf or try to fix him, it’s his job, you concentrate on your healing and your security.
You know what you will and will not tolerate, you know where your firm boundaries are, you know what you will do if your boundaries are disrespected. You know you will be ok in either scenario. That’s self-protection.
He’s got no right to expect trust from you for quite a while, that depends on your healing and his behaviour. Just stopping what he was doing and apologising is not enough, he has a lot to do to earn back trust and be a far better husband and reassure you that he is safe and has changed.
Enjoy your time together, his being openly invested in you will go a long way to repair things, but don’t separate the two things that are going on for you both. He needs to work on himself to be safe for you: he needs to ask himself why he betrayed you so badly and what he was getting out of it/ why he chose it (none of the reasons are/will be anything to do with you, by the way) and work on the marriage at the same time.
Good luck and I hope you find peace again.

Earlier I said all this would change you.

It's not always positive change. You're hyperalert because you were emotionally abused by your husband and that was traumatic for you. That's a trauma response. That leaves damage that he has never acknowledged his responsibility for.

You marriage isn't going to be a safe place because your husband has never taken responsibility and held himself accountable for the things he did.

Hello there,
I am glad to hear your update. Here it was never quite right. It was the trust had gone and living in a hyper vigilant way to protect myself and my children. My husband complained early on that he felt watched. He was being watched. Every twitch or message notification. We have been trying for 2 years now and I only felt like I could say he made me feel happy yesterday evening. Its definitely not an overnight fix. Im glad I didnt end my marriage and im not saying you should/shouldn't etc. Its the journey. You have to be both on board and from your update he seems to be but still doesnt seem to have accepted he has done anything wrong. Just that he was caught out

Thanks for updating @FourAndFive

I’m so glad about your Dad.

How are your children feeling now?

They're great in themselves, both of them doing really well in everything they're up to which is such a pleasure to watch.

They ask him for advice, they hang out with him and with us - but there is an air of intolerance for him that they don't show to me - or at least I never noticed. They bicker with him more, push buttons. It's for him to manage. I am a natural peacekeeper, so I do step in when I think it's right (read: when I want peace and quiet!).

He does notice.

Yeah, the Dad thing is excellent - I adore him. Thank you.

I really think when you want peace you should step away, not intervene on his behalf.

Allow your children to navigate their feelings and relationship with him honestly.

He has let them down badly and they are holding him to account in their way, by not tolerating him as easily as before.

Give them the space to do that and leave them to it.

If you don't you are shutting them down and that isn't right nor fair.

Your need to be peacemaker shouldn't come ahead of their emotional needs after what has been a deeply unsettling time for them.

Long term they will not thank you for shutting them down by your interventions.
Be careful.

I don't mean to be harsh, I am just warning you to not replicate him by denying your children their emotions, in the way he shut you down for a long time.

I get you, thanks @keyhooksI appreciate the input - I did say "I do step in when I think it's right". It's their thing to manage otherwise :)

I tell the kids to pick their battles in their normal everyday lives, I don't think this is much different. He's fucked up, he knows it, kids are cross, he knows it - one of the DC's calling him a fucking idiot because the Cheerios are in the wrong place is not okay (paraphrased there, but you get the idea).

I hear you.
But sometimes it is saying you fxxking idiot for the cheerios, is code for fxxk you causing my mum and this family so much upset and grief.

Your child doesn't want to get into it, probably doesn't know how to actually verbalise their upset, hurt and confusion on the subject.

However they can use the Cheerios irritation as a vessel to release that pent up pain.

Respectfully, I would be inclined to let them vent, and maybe chat about it later to them, suggesting to them that they must indeed be privately very pissed off with dad and acknowledging they have every right to be very disappointed and upset.

I really wouldn't intervene.

Unexpressed, contained anger, can easily morph into low mood and depression in young people.

This is your thread and all I want is to give you food for thought.

You have gone through so much, you don't need MH problems creeping up on your children because of the undoubted trauma your husband has inflicted on you all.

That fxxking idiot comment is trauma being expressed IMO.

I agree @Keyhooks- it could also be ‘what one represses - the other expresses’ - so the DC is triggered to express the anger / rage / frustration of the OP that they sense implicitly in the home - as well as their own rage for the unexplained unaccountable disruption, distress and disrespect inflicted on them all over a long period without any consequences or explanation for him or by him. That’s a lot to shoulder for a teen. The emotional impact of this on them would be my priority to intentionally address

Maybe the kids preferred it when he wasn't there? If friends can tell that you've been deeply affected and damaged, without even knowing anything, the kids must see it like a beacon.

@Keyhooks @Madchest I agree wholeheartedly.
The DCs father put them in this situation through no fault of their own.

Have you thought about going to individual therapy for assessment and learning some coping methods. It sounds like you're being triggered and experiencing what could be PTSD.

Your kids are expressing what you can't or won't. They possibly could use a few therapy sessions of their own to be able to honestly express their feelings to someone outside the family.

I am a natural peacekeeper, so I do step in when I think it's right

It's not for you to manage your kids's feelings towards your husband or protect his. Let your husband handle how his kid expresses their feelings. Your husband emotionally abused all of you. You were tone policed in therapy and told what words to use. It sounds like at least one of them is really angry and expresses it to him on occasion.

@FourAndFive
I have read through both threads (all of your posts, and lots of replies).

What a time you have had. Hugs to you, and your DCs, on getting through it.

But this next bit will be really hard too, as I'm sure you know.

Keep giving yourself time and space just for you. I recommend Pilates or yoga as they're both great exercise but are also really mindful, and that can really help.

Let DH figure out his new relationship with the DC. And let them express whatever they need to, however they need to.

Good luck moving forward, but remember that movement might also sometimes be sideways, or backwards, or just static.
Hang in there, or not, as you decide.

💐

Haven't heard from you in a while now, @FourAndFive , how are you

Thanks for checking in on me, I appreciate it. It's good to be reminded to reflect on it and to come back and update the thread. I think of it often. This has taken a while to put together, because - yeah, we're alright, doesn't quite do it.

Not sure where to start, so I'll waffle as usual - I'm still on guard and I still can't tell if we're solid, like I thought we were before. I guess that's because that's gone now, it doesn't exist anymore. But we are okay. Being ready for 'flight' at any time is exhausting, though. I will not have any fight if anything happens again. Not that I don't have it (the energy) - but I will not have it, it will be over. I live every day at a time. It could all change again in the blink of an eye. Trust will have to be earned over the long game.

Perhaps I'm still grieving my naivety. Is it naivety? the Before? He'd NEVER do that to me, ever. LOL honestly. The love I feel IS different. We nearly, very nearly, didn't get to this point, and we've worked hard to get here. The love is conditional now, and while it is calm, I take extra care to feel grateful if that makes sense, and he does too. But there is love, so that's good.

I've seen her around and every time it knocks the wind out of me and my balance for a few days, even thinking about that now it feels like all the blood goes from my arms. I'd love to get to a place where I wont have such a reaction, but that's my life now. Bastard. But we move forwards.

The DC's are incredible, their relationship with DH is doing it's thing, and he's doing the work he needs to. My wonderful dad is still doing really well, too, so that's great!

Sending so much solidarity to those going through it at the moment, I've read some absolutely horrors on here recently. Bastards.

Thank you for updating @FourAndFive .

Bastard is too good a word for the men who do what your H has done to you

I'm glad you're "coping" at present. He may have bent you but you're not broken. I doubt he could break you, you're an amazing woman.

X

The relationship counsellor told me the old relationship as I knew it was dead. The new relationship is different, and rightly so. There will always be a seed of doubt about how solid the pillars are. If they ever come down, I'll be ready this time.

It will be you that thrives OP because you are mow in a new mind set and will never go back to be the same trusting wife again but that’s a good thing because you now will and know how to pit yourself first and you should build on that. By putting yourself first doesn’t mean you don’t love your husband it means you also love yourself and can now cope with anything thrown at you your a stronger woman. So look for the positives out of his sorry mess and use them as your strengths going forward. You will change how you see him now and you both know who he is. Remember any guilt, shame, remorse he feels is on him don’t take on these emotions for him. I really hope he steps up to become the person you want/need. Time will tell but the great thing is you will decide now and going forward

Hi fourandfive just wanted to send some love and hugs 🫂 xxx